pnattmbtc Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 13 minutes ago, Robert said: Okay, where does Christ, in the gospels, state that our old life from Adam was crucified with Him and therefore the law is satisfied? Again, this is my point. You are asserting something which is not the gospel. If it were the gospel, Jesus would have preached it, because Jesus preached the gospel. Jesus preached the same gospel Paul did, which must be the case because: 1.Paul said anyone who preached a different gospel than he did should be accursed. 2.Jesus preached the gospel (He said so Himself). Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 6 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: Again, this is my point. You are asserting something which is not the gospel. If it were the gospel, Jesus would have preached it, because Jesus preached the gospel. Jesus preached the same gospel Paul did, which must be the case because: 1.Paul said anyone who preached a different gospel than he did should be accursed. 2.Jesus preached the gospel (He said so Himself). Then show me, in the gospels, where Christ preached what He delivered to Paul.
pnattmbtc Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 21 minutes ago, Robert said: Then show me, in the gospels, where Christ preached what He delivered to Paul. The Gospel which Jesus preached is the same as what Paul preached, so it's everywhere. Logically, this would have to be the case, right? That is, given: 1.Paul said anyone who preached a different gospel than he did should be accursed. 2.Jesus preached the gospel. It must be the same case that they preached the same gospel, right? I don't see a difference between what Paul and Jesus taught. Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 I have to be off line for a bit. I'll check back in half an hour or so. Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 9 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: The Gospel which Jesus preached is the same as what Paul preached, so it's everywhere. Logically, this would have to be the case, right? That is, given: 1.Paul said anyone who preached a different gospel than he did should be accursed. 2.Jesus preached the gospel. It must be the same case that they preached the same gospel, right? I don't see a difference between what Paul and Jesus taught. Then again, show me in the gospels, where Christ preached what He delivered to Paul. Show me means quote verses. For example, show me where Christ, in the gospels, stated anything like Rom 6:6/7:4!
pnattmbtc Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 36 minutes ago, Robert said: Then again, show me in the gospels, where Christ preached what He delivered to Paul. Show me means quote verses. For example, show me where Christ, in the gospels, stated anything like Rom 6:6/7:4! I'll look that up later, but a couple of quick things. First of all, you're not responding to the argument. It's a simple logical argument, which needs nothing outside of it to stand. 1.Paul said that anyone who preached a different gospel than he did is to be accursed. 2.Jesus preached the gospel (He Himself said so). Do you disagree with either of these points? If you don't, then it logically follows that Paul and Jesus preached the same thing. Your challenge to "show me in the gospels X" implies you disagree with the argument I presented. If you disagree, then either you disagree with point 1, point 2, or the conclusion. Which is it? Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 28 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: I'll look that up later, You do that....
pnattmbtc Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Robert, please respond to the argument I presented. If you disagree with the argument, do you disagree that 1.Paul said anyone who preached a different gospel than he did should be accursed. 2.Jesus preached the gospel. 3.Therefore Paul and Jesus preached the same gospel. Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 1 minute ago, pnattmbtc said: Robert, please respond to the argument I presented. If you disagree with the argument, do you disagree that 1.Paul said anyone who preached a different gospel than he did should be accursed. 2.Jesus preached the gospel. 3.Therefore Paul and Jesus preached the same gospel. You keep telling me that Christ preached the gospel. Give me proof....Show me where He and Paul said the same.
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 4 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. The above quote is about the fruits of the gospel, not the gospel. Try to understand the difference. The gospel is what saves. The fruits prove one's faith, not his righteousness.
pnattmbtc Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 6 minutes ago, Robert said: The above quote is about the fruits of the gospel, not the gospel. Try to understand the difference. The gospel is what saves. The fruits prove one's faith, not his righteousness. Where does Jesus assert any of what you are claiming? Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." (John 5:39,40) Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 8 hours ago, pnattmbtc said: Where does Jesus assert any of what you are claiming? "Unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds." The idea here is we die to self then we can produce fruit. Like I said, Jesus isn't preaching the gospel here. He is speaking to Christian living....Try again.
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 8 hours ago, Robert said: You keep telling me that Christ preached the gospel. Give me proof....Show me where He and Paul said the same. Waiting patiently
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 Actually, start another thread because this one is on the woman caught in adultery. Actually, I'll start one. I'll call it: "The gospel according to Christ and Paul" Thanks, Robert
pnattmbtc Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 2 hours ago, Robert said: You never responded directly to the argument I presented, but I can infer a response. The argument is: 1.Paul said anyone who preached a different gospel than he did should be accursed. 2.Jesus Himself preached the gospel. 3.Therefore Paul and Jesus preached the same gospel. I infer from your request for proof that Jesus preached the gospel that you disagree that He did so. This is correct? It is your contention that Jesus Christ did not preach the gospel. Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
JoeMo Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 11 hours ago, Robert said: The gospel is what saves. I disagree. It is acceptace of the mercy and love of God that saves us through the blood and death of Jesus Christ. The Gospel is just the news about that event. It is our faith in that news and the person that news is about that saves us. I can read every word of the Gospel - even memorize it - and it won't save me. Only upon acting on the news and developing a relationship with Jesus saves me. phkrause 1
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 28 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: You never responded directly to the argument I presented, but I can infer a response. The argument is: 1.Paul said anyone who preached a different gospel than he did should be accursed. 2.Jesus Himself preached the gospel. 3.Therefore Paul and Jesus preached the same gospel. I infer from your request for proof that Jesus preached the gospel that you disagree that He did so. This is correct? It is your contention that Jesus Christ did not preach the gospel. Games.... Prove all this using the Bible. You can't. Do you know why you can't? Because you rely too much on other authors. Go to the Bible..
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 13 minutes ago, JoeMo said: I disagree. It is acceptace of the mercy and love of God that saves us through the blood and death of Jesus Christ. The Gospel is just the news about that event. It is our faith in that news and the person that news is about that saves us. I can read every word of the Gospel - even memorize it - and it won't save me. Only upon acting on the news and developing a relationship with Jesus saves me. Okay, let me rephrase: In the gospel Christ completely saved our fallen humanity. That is a finished work. When received by faith it becomes justification by faith. Is this better?
JoeMo Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 Better; but it still sounds like -in your opinion - all humanity is born saved. That's what makes me uncomfortable (here and in many other places you post). I believe that man is born lost until he accepts in His heart and acts upon the Gospel to develop a relationship with Christ. Furthermore, I believe that those who never have a chance to hear the gospel before death will get a chance to believe in the 8th Millennium.
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 3 minutes ago, JoeMo said: Better; but it still sounds like -in your opinion - all humanity is born saved. That's what makes me uncomfortable (here and in many other places you post). Not born again, but born justified unto life just as Romans 5:18 states. I believe Christ covers us with His grace, which He legally obtained in His doing & dying, and thus we come into world free of condemnation. This isn't universalism because if babies grow up to be young adults they will have to make a decision either for or against Christ. If they say no, well, that's bad news....
JoeMo Posted January 6, 2016 Posted January 6, 2016 1 minute ago, Robert said: I believe Christ covers us with His grace, which He legally obtained in His doing & dying, and thus we come into world free of condemnation. This isn't universalism because if babies grow up to be young adults they will have to make a decision either for or against Christ. If they say no, well, that's bad news.... What if they never get a chance to hear about Jesus; or they belong to a denomination that so thoroughly twists God's word that they walk away from God out of fear and disgust? Not everyone has the capacity or education to study out the Word for themselves and make an informed decision for or against God. Are they lost; or will they get their chance to believe at another time? IMHO, they must say "yes" to Jesus to be saved. Simply not saying "no" is not enough to be saved. But I'm not God - He can do whatever He wants. I'll ultimately be OK with Him saving whomever He chooses on whatever basis suits His desires.
Robert Posted January 6, 2016 Author Posted January 6, 2016 31 minutes ago, JoeMo said: What if they never get a chance to hear about Jesus; or they belong to a denomination that so thoroughly twists God's word that they walk away from God out of fear and disgust? Not everyone has the capacity or education to study out the Word for themselves and make an informed decision for or against God. Are they lost; or will they get their chance to believe at another time? IMHO, they must say "yes" to Jesus to be saved. Simply not saying "no" is not enough to be saved. But I'm not God - He can do whatever He wants. I'll ultimately be OK with Him saving whomever He chooses on whatever basis suits His desires. These are questions pertaining to those who have reached the age accountability... What I know is God never gives up....To harden one's heart means one must know the truth... God abandons the sinner when he persistently and ultimately rejects the good news.
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