Are the three Angels' Messages Dead or Alive?

[hch]

6 hours ago, hch said:

Watching waiting praying

The Pentagon reports that President Obama started precision bombing of ISIS targets in Libya today (8/1/16).

Interesting that Kerry told Iran and Russia to have a plan in place to remove Assad from Syria by today or face the consequences. NO plan has been announced, and on the date of the deadline, America started bombing groups that it links to ISIS that are alternative governments to the government that the US recognizes in Libya.

Is there a link between Kerry's Syrian ultimatum and Libya? Maybe Obama is refining this new approach that he will move to the Syrian theater? Will the link be self-evident? And then President Obama will be troubled by news from the East (Russia) and the south (Iran).

The link to the Third Angel's Message is clear: The earth-beast (Obama) the lamblike horn is speaking like a dragon -- comply or else. 

Christian regards

His child

[JoeMo]

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 8:05 PM, hch said:

21 ¶  "To tarry beyond the time <05975> (8804) the foot [President Obama] <03653> to cause <05674> (8688) [the taskmaster] <05065> (8802) in the glory <01925> of the kingdom <04438>: but within few <0259> days <03117> he shall be destroyed [President Obama by the brightness of Christ's coming]<07665> (8735), neither in anger <0639>, nor in battle <04421>. The foot [President Obama]<03653> shall stand up, <05975> (8804) the vile person <0959> (8737), to whom they shall not give <05414> (8804) the honor <01935> of the kingdom <04438>: but he shall come <0935> (8804) in peaceably <07962>, and obtain <02388> (8689) the kingdom <04438> by flatteries <02519>.

You're right - this is a terrible translation - or paraphrase as the case may be.  The red-letter stuff appears to be someone's private interpretation.  There is nothing in the original language that points directly at Obama - but you already knew that.

 

On ‎7‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 6:58 AM, hch said:

The word of God is very clear (from a thorough study of Daniel and Revelation) that Christ will come during the Presidency of Barack Obama.

I don't see anything in Daniel or Revelation that even vaguely refers to Obama, even now that I think I know what to look for.

Over and out.

[hch]

On ‎8‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 1:18 PM, hch said:

Is there a link between Kerry's Syrian ultimatum and Libya? Maybe Obama is refining this new approach that he will move to the Syrian theater? Will the link be self-evident? And then President Obama will be troubled by news from the East (Russia) and the south (Iran).

It is noteworthy that while America's increased military activity in Libya 8/1/16 was the news from the Pentagon, but something unusual happened in Syria 8/1/16 as well. The Russians said that a helicopter that had been involved in "humanitarian aide in Aleppo" was downed. Other sources say that the helicopter had been involved in gassing people with chlorine gas in Aleppo. But the "coincidence" that cannot escape a watchful eye is that the Russian helicopter was downed on 8/1/16, while America was focusing the world on America's activity in Libya.

In the Russian Afghanistan war, America had armed the Afghans with weapons that could down helicopters BUT the US says that those weapons went to the hands of  the Taliban after the war so America has not been taking the chance of supplying them in the Syrian conflict.

So on the day that President Obama said Russian and Iran had to have a plan in place for Assad to leave Syria or face the consequences, a Russian helicopter is downed in Syria and America begins military activities in Libya that focused the world's attention on America's military activity miles away from the redline in Syria.

When the Russians start to experience loss of life in the Syrian conflict from the anti-Assad forces, how long will it take them to want out of that conflict. And how long will it take them to infer a link to American involvement in their change of fortunes in that conflict.

While we watch wait and pray, we will see President Obama  wax exceedingly great toward the pleasant land.

Christian regards

His child

[Martn]

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[Martn]

On 7/24/2016 at 3:24 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

personally offensive language

It's hard, very hard, for those of us who have come from other SDA sites, to understand that things really are very different here.

Thank you for the reminder of how things should be.

[Martn]

On 7/30/2016 at 7:58 AM, hch said:

The word of God is very clear (from a thorough study of Daniel and Revelation) that Christ will come during the Presidency of Barack Obama.

February, 2017, we will see where Obama is vis-a-vis Jesus.

That should be the end of it. But will it be? Or, will you continue anyway?

[hch]

3 minutes ago, Martn said:

February, 2017, we will see where Obama is vis-a-vis Jesus.

That should be the end of it. But will it be? Or, will you continue anyway?

Martin,

Thank you for your notes. But you conclusion indicates that you have not read or did not understand some of my posts.

The Bible does not indicate that Jesus will come before February 2017 (nor have I ever indicated a date for Christ's return),

but that President Obama will be the PRESIDENT in office when Jesus comes. There is a significant difference in those two views.

The view that you implied of Christ's Advent before Feb 2017, is not my view and is not founded upon sound Bible study.

By the way. President Obama is having meetings with the Joint Chiefs at the Pentagon today to discuss what to do with and to ISIS in Syria. He is scheduled to have a news briefing shortly after 4 PM to brief the American people as to how he is going to put teeth into his threat through Kerry that Iran and Russia will have consequences for failing to have a plan in place by August 1, 2016 for Assad's departure from Syrian rule.

As Bible prophecy continues to be fulfilled, those who are not watching, waiting, and praying are not on as solid ground as they could be regarding prophetic understanding. When Peter and the disciples failed to watch and pray with Jesus on the night that Christ was betrayed, they were not prepared for what followed. And they were not able to make preparation after their opportunity had passed. We would do well to learn from their mistake lest we repeat their error when the final "rapid" events are upon us as they will be.

Christian regards

His child

[Martn]

On 7/24/2016 at 4:43 AM, hch said:

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space" (Revelation 17:10).

Without knowing who these five kings are, you cannot possibly know the timing of the harlot's fulfillment of Bible prophecy.

John was told five "are" fallen, and that one "is" while another is "yet" to come.

Past, present, and future. The normal understanding of time.

There is no real justification, within the text itself, for not using the normal understanding of time.

Using the normal understanding of time, this really leaves us no reasonable doubt about who the first five were. And, therefore, who the sixth was. And, thus, who the seventh (and eighth) will be.

When John was given the vision, Rome was still very much in power.

There were other empires, but Rome was the only one under which John was living.

This tells us, in no uncertain terms, that Rome was the sixth king. Which leaves us no reasonable doubt of who the previous five were.

Since all seven kings are heads (incarnations) of the eighth king which is the beast himself, the previous five kings must be of the same body as the sixth king. And so, likewise, the seventh and eighth kings.

Rome of course grew out of the Greek empire.

Greece grew out of the Medo-Persian realm. And Medo-Persia grew out of Babylon.

This gives us the identity of three of the five kings which preceded Rome. Greece, Medo-Persia, and Babylon.

To determine who the first two were, we need only follow the same line of progression, further back in time.

Which empire did Babylon grow out of? There are various theories (assumptions), but the Bible plainly tells us that Babylon grew up out of Babel.

We often forget that Babel was itself a global empire, not just a single city. According to the Bible, Babel was the first civilization which developed among men after the Flood, and all others since have been attempts at restoring it, Babylon being of course one of them.

According to the Bible, there was one global civilization which preceded Babel. The Antediluvian civilization.

The beast which rises out of the sea is the same one which went into the sea, destroyed by the Flood.

Among the Greeks and Egyptians, it was called Atlantis (Adamah in the Hebrew text).

According to Plato, Atlantis was made up of ten kingdoms. An ancient United Nations. The first king.

Babel was an attempt to restore it. To rebuild what had been lost. The second king.

Babylon, then, was the third king. Followed by Medo-Persia, the fourth king. Followed by Greece, the fifth king.

Followed by Rome, the sixth king. The one still standing when John received his vision.

The Roman Empire actually never fell completely. This is because, even in John's day, it was set up as a business corporation, not just a political entity. All subsequent business corporations derive their authority from it.

The "Universal Person" (as the Roman emperors called their corporation) still exists.

There is a name for this kind of government. Fascism.

Fascism, as both Hitler and Mussolini defined the term, is the union of government and business corporations. The opposite of communism, where government controls business, fascism is when business controls government. As Mussolini put it, fascism more accurately should be called corporatism.

When government itself becomes a business corporation, that is fascism by definition --Rome revived.

This is precisely what happened under Hitler and Mussolini. For the first time in history, since the ancient Roman Empire, business corporations joined forces to control not just a single country, but the entire world.

This attempt at "globalization" was, thank heavens, short-lived. The seventh king. Who lived for a "short space"  exactly as the prophecy foretold.

But its deadly wound is being healed. Global fascism is again on the rise. For the eighth and final time.

(Contrary to what communists would like us to believe, fascism and capitalism are not the same thing. Unlike pure capitalism, fascism like communism is a form of socialism, where finance is manipulated through government intervention. Remarkably Adam Smith, author of The Wealth of Nations, a capitalist Bible, warned against this, saying that businessmen are the one group of people who, ordinarily, should not be allowed in government. In pure capitalism, there should be observed a distinct separation between business and state, just as there should be separation between church and state.)

 

[Martn]

1 hour ago, hch said:

The Bible does not indicate that Jesus will come before February 2017 (nor have I ever indicated a date for Christ's return),

but that President Obama will be the PRESIDENT in office when Jesus comes.

So, the story will continue, regardless whether Mr. Obama remains president until Jesus appears?

There is no way your prophecy possibly can be disproved, regardless of any outcome, in our lifetimes.

[Martn]

On 7/17/2016 at 8:26 PM, hch said:

how are you linking this to the Three Angels' Messages being dead or alive

 

How we regard "God" has very much to do with the angels' message --which is all about this "God" we keep professing.

The angels' message tells us to worship no one other than this "God" alone.

And when we seek to do this, in all sincerity, we shall discover a being who in fact does not want our worship, at all, but our friendship instead. The time will come when "God" will no longer be called "God" (Baali), but husband. The Spirit desires companionship, not worship. 

[hch]

1 hour ago, Martn said:

So, the story will continue, regardless whether Mr. Obama remains president until Jesus appears?

There is no way your prophecy possibly can be disproved, regardless of any outcome, in our lifetimes.

Sorry Martin, the reply you posted reads like double talk.

As I read Daniel 7, President Obama is consumed by the brightness of Christ's Coming.

When Christ Comes the outcome will be self evident. But those who put endtime events in the far distant future will set a date to far in the future to make the preparations now that are needed.

Christian regards,

His child

now for that 4:00 PM Presidential news conference

[Martn]

On 7/17/2016 at 5:37 PM, LifeHiscost said:

 

Yahweh, the God of your ancestors—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.

This is my eternal name,

my name to remember for all generations.

Exodus 3

It is inappropriate to insert enunciations of the unspeakable Name. As translators so often attempt to do, as in this instance.

The Name was never to be pronounced. Which is why it is represented as all vowels (IAUA, or, EAOA, etc., depending on how the four vowels are transcribed in modern alphabets).

Only vowels. No consonants at all. (Pure Spirit/Aspiration. Without bodily shape/form whatsoever.)

Our IAUA is ever beyond description/definition of any sort. Which is what the phrase rendered "I will be as I will be" is trying to convey.

[Martn]

18 minutes ago, hch said:

the reply you posted reads like double talk

How's that?

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, Martn said:

John was told five "are" fallen, and that one "is" while another is "yet" to come.

Hey Martin,

I like the way your post proceeded.  If I may, I would like to identify these kings using another viewpoint - one in which the succession of Kingdoms is based on the succession of those who have ruled over Israel by conquering the previous Kingdom.

The first Kingdom was Egypt; which ruled most of the "world" (Middle East including Israel) from the time of Joseph until Assyria conquered Egypt and the rest of the Middle East.

The second Kingdom was Assyria, which ruled until it was conquered by Babylon

The third Kingdom was Babylon, until it was conquered by the Medo-Persians

The fourth Kingdom was Medo-Persia, until it was conquered by the Greeks

The fifth Kingdom was Greece, until it was conquered by Rome.  This covers the five kingdoms which have "fallen".

The sixth Kingdom (the Kingdom which "is") was Rome; which actually ruled until the 15th century (Constantinople; the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire was named after King Constantine or 4th century Rome).  Constantinople fell to the Ottoman Empire Muslims on May 29, 1453

The seventh Kingdom was the Muslim Ottoman Empire, which ruled from the mid 15th century until World War 1 when it was toppled by Attaturk when Turkey (home country of Constantinople) became a "secular" country.

Following the logic of Rev. 17:11, (" The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.") I would propose that the 8th King will be a resurgence of the Muslim Empire, or Caliphate.  This seems to be the current direction in which history is taking us.  If I had to choose between an Islamic antichrist/beast or an Obama or papal  antichrist/beast, I'd bet on the Islamic option.

[Buzzards]

3 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

Following the logic of Rev. 17:11, (" The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.") I would propose that the 8th King will be a resurgence of the Muslim Empire, or Caliphate.  This seems to be the current direction in which history is taking us.  If I had to choose between an Islamic antichrist/beast or an Obama or papal  antichrist/beast, I'd bet on the Islamic option.

OB-amie is a Muslim

[CoAspen]

OB-amie is a Muslim-Only in  the minds of those who wish for and embrace conspiracy theories.

[Martn]

On 7/18/2016 at 4:25 PM, hch said:

So when is the time for the 3rd Angel's Message to sound?

There is one message, and four final messengers who give it, not just three.

The first three messengers have already given this message.

We are in the time of the fourth messenger, who also has already given this message, repeating all which the previous three had stated.

[Martn]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

The seventh Kingdom was the Muslim Ottoman Empire, which ruled from the mid 15th century until World War 1 when it was toppled by Attaturk when Turkey (home country of Constantinople) became a "secular" country.

Compared to the others, the seventh king (dictator) was to rule for only a very "short" period of time.

The seventh king certainly did include Islam, as the Muslims were (and remain) Hitler's foremost allies in the Middle East against the Jews.

So the eighth incarnation --of global fascism-- includes Islam again, ultimately joining with Muslims against the Jews, just as under Hitler.

[JoeMo]

1 minute ago, Martn said:

So the eighth incarnation --of global fascism-- includes Islam again, ultimately joining with Muslims against the Jews, just as under Hitler.

I admit that this is also a feasible scenario.

[hch]

14 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Hey Martin,

I like the way your post proceeded...

The first Kingdom ...

Following the logic of Rev. 17:11, (" The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.") I would propose that the 8th King will be a resurgence of the Muslim Empire, or Caliphate.  This seems to be the current direction in which history is taking us.  If I had to choose between an Islamic antichrist/beast or an Obama or papal  antichrist/beast, I'd bet on the Islamic option.

JoeMo

The context is not kingdoms but kings

Rev 17:10  And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Is Changing a clear thus saith the Lord into something other than what it says rightly dividing the word or a private interpretation?

Christian regards

His child

[hch]

13 hours ago, Martn said:

There is one message, and four final messengers who give it, not just three.

The first three messengers have already given this message.

We are in the time of the fourth messenger, who also has already given this message, repeating all which the previous three had stated.

As it is written:

The three angels' messages were first given in ancient Babylon (Daniel 4-6). They were repeated in 1844 when the hour of the judgment of the dead commenced (Revelation 14). And they were repeated when the hour designated for the judgment of living ended in 2013 (Revelation 17-18). Now that we are in the final sealing time, the fourth angel is uniting with the third to declare that President Obama will implement the Mark of the Beast.

Those who fail to understand the workings of antichrist will be deceived by antichrist.

Christian regards

His child

[hch]

13 hours ago, Martn said:

Compared to the others, the seventh king (dictator) was to rule for only a very "short" period of time.

The seventh king certainly did include Islam, as the Muslims were (and remain) Hitler's foremost allies in the Middle East against the Jews.

So the eighth incarnation --of global fascism-- includes Islam again, ultimately joining with Muslims against the Jews, just as under Hitler.

Martin,

A short time is not defined in the Bible, unless you have found it there. If so please direct me to the passage.

The Spirit of prophecy identifies 7 as the number of completeness that applies to the church especially in the endtime.

Understanding that and that Rev 17 relates to Babylon: Babylon's kings counted their reign from New Year's day, which is 29 March on Gregorian calendar.

Pope John-Paul II died on 2 April 20015. He was king of the Vatican on 29 March 2005 so from Babylonian tradition his last year to rule ended 28 March 2006.

Pope Benedict XVI accession year completed John-Paul II's last year.

Pope benedict began his first year as solo pope 29 March 2006

Pope Benedict ended his reign 28 February 2013 -- one month and one day short of 7-years (the number of completion)

Thus since the restoration of the papacy in 1929, the 5 fallen popes/kings were Pius XI & XII, john XXIII, Paul VI, John-Paul I

The one that is was John-Paul II

And the one that ruled for a short space was Benedict XVI

knowing that Present Truth Revelation 13 reveals that the papal beast transitioned  to the earth-beast during the reign of Benedict XVI

The earth-beast has 2 horns: President Bush II aligns with the start of Benedict's reign and Obama aligns with the end of Benedict's reign

It is not rocket science. But it is not prophesied that everyone will understand it. 

Christian regards,

His child

[Martn]

2 hours ago, hch said:

It is not rocket science.

 

[Martn]

3 hours ago, hch said:

not kingdoms but kings

Kings are representative of their kingdoms.

The terms are used interchangeably in prophetic language:

"another kingdom inferior to you"

"these kings ... these kingdoms"

"great beasts ... four kings"

"fourth beast ... fourth kingdom"

Daniel 2:39, 44; 7:17, 23. Etc.

What is meant therefore are not specific individuals, but the offices they embody.

[Martn]

On 7/17/2016 at 6:11 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

Do you believe there are other "realms" or dimensions with life that our God Yahweh did NOT create?

I believe there is only one true Creator, one Source of all creative power every where.

Jesus made the worlds in our realm, but not by his own power. All things here were made through ("dia") him. Not directly by him, but by ("ek") the power of One far greater than him or his father.