Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 Oh, Robert, Robert. Time and time again, your doctrine is proven wrong from Scriptures, but you won't budge? Why? What prevents you from believing the plain and simple words of the Holy Writ, my brother?
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, Samie said: Oh, Robert, Robert. Time and time again, your doctrine is proven wrong from Scriptures, but you won't budge? Why? What prevents you from believing the plain and simple words of the Holy Writ, my brother? 1. Scriptures say that Jesus is the Lamb SLAIN from the foundation of the world. But you don't believe that God saved Adam the day he sinned and reinstated him to his pre-fall spiritual status, an act that cost the Father His Only Begotten Son. The right side of your tongue correctly teaches that God is agape but its wrong side depicts Him as a Father who just folded his hands and did NOTHING but simply watched his child Adam drown. 2. Scriptures say that God made people upright, yet you don't believe it. You insist that people are born spiritually dead in sin and UNLESS people first put in their share of the deal into the basket - believe -, they cannot be In Christ. 3. Scriptures are clear that Jesus said APART from Him man can do NOTHING, but you don't believe it. You teach that people while APART from Christ, can do SOMETHING - they can believe, accept the gift of salvation, repent, etc. - for them to be In Christ. You are creating SOMETHING out of Christ's NOTHING. 4. Scriptures say that God caused people to be born again through the resurrection of Jesus, but you don't believe it. Instead, you insist that for people to be born again they must believe. 5. Scriptures say that we were made alive TOGETHER with Christ, but you don't believe it. You teach that for people to be made alive, they need to first believe. Hence people are made alive one by one as each one believes, and NOT together with Christ as the Bible says. 6. Scriptures say that God chose us In Christ BEFORE the foundation of the world, but you don't believe it. You teach that one can only be in Christ when the person accepts Him as personal Savior. 7. Scriptures say that we were made holy and perfect through the offering of the body of Christ. But you don't believe it. You insist that man is not holy and not blameless. That's a perfect number (7 counts) of unbelief in what Scriptures say. If Scriptures can't convince you, my brother, what will?
Robert Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Samie said: Yes, we all are. Scriptures say we were made holy and perfect, hence blameless, through the sacrifice of the body of Christ. But you (i.e., Samie the individual) aren't "in Christ" because Christ is in heaven and you are here on earth, namely the Philippines. I think you are a bit confused.
Robert Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Samie said: That's a perfect number (7 counts) of unbelief in what Scriptures say. No, Samie, it's unbelief in what Samie says because your view and Scripture's view are polar opposites.
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Robert said: But you (i.e., Samie the individual) aren't "in Christ" because Christ is in heaven and you are here on earth, namely the Philippines. I think you are a bit confused. I understand why you are confused and can't understand spiritual things. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned, brother.
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Robert said: No, Samie, it's unbelief in what Samie says because your view and Scripture's view are polar opposites. Really? Here's one sample of a polar opposite: Jesus said: Apart from Me man can do NOTHING. Robert said: Apart from Christ man can do SOMETHING.
Robert Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Robert said: But you (i.e., Samie the individual) aren't "in Christ" because Christ is in heaven and you are here on earth, namely the Philippines. I think you are a bit confused. Let's explore this with some integrity and honesty. Let's go to the heart of some of Paul's "in Christ" statements: The classics are found in Romans 6:6/7:4 "...Our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with...." "...You also died to the law through the body of Christ..." Note that Paul states that "you", that is, your old self, died according to the justice of God's law, in Christ. Now Christ, as the Son of man, died the second death - which is goodbye to life forever. According to Paul "you" died with Him on Calvary and therefore "you" are eternally dead. That's the second death. Who then is Samie? I mean if you died then you can't possibly be posting on Club Adventist, right? What should we then conclude? That Samie, the individual, didn't die the second death. Then what died? Your old self, i.e., your Adamic life. In theological terms your corporate life eternally died with Christ, as the Son of Man, on His cross. In other words the fallen life you share with Adam died "in Christ" and not Samie the individual. This truth invariably negates your erroneous conclusions.
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Robert said: Failure, on your part, to understand this truth invariably negates your erroneous conclusions. Why, my brother? Did you not know that Christ had risen from the dead and that those who died with Him were made alive TOGETHER with Him?
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 Another sample of a polar opposite: Scriptures say: Hebrews 10:10, 14 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. Robert says: People are not holy and not perfect.
Robert Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 15 minutes ago, Samie said: Here's one sample of a polar opposite: Jesus said: Apart from Me man can do NOTHING. Robert said: Apart from Christ man can do SOMETHING. You are being disingenuous. The context clearly and overwhelming indicates that Christ was speaking in terms of doing "good works". On the other hand we have the ability (and it's called free-will) to exercise faith and accept Christ's finished work of redemption.
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 3 minutes ago, Robert said: The context clearly and overwhelming indicates that Christ was speaking in terms of doing "good works". By concocting his own context, Robert creates SOMETHING out of Christ's NOTHING. Talk about polar opposites...
Robert Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, Samie said: Did you not know that Christ had risen from the dead and that those who died with Him were made alive TOGETHER with Him? This is speaking of your new, glorified humanity. This humanity is unlike our old Adamic humanity. After all Christ stated that we will be like the angels in heaven. Therefore what died and what was resurrected "in Christ" are not one and the same.
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Robert said: Therefore what died and what was resurrected "in Christ" are not one and the same. Another sample of a polar opposite: Scriptures say: Colossians 2:13 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins Robert says: People are eternally dead when they died with Christ.
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 Oh Robert, Robert. Time and time again and again, your doctrine is proven wrong from Scriptures. Why don't you just simply believe what Scriptures say, brother?
Robert Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, Samie said: By concocting his own context, Robert creates SOMETHING out of Christ's NOTHING. Talk about polar opposites... At this point you need to apologize. I am not concocting anything: "If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." The only way to bear fruit (i.e., do good works) is to remain in Christ by faith. Without Christ you can't bear genuine fruit. That's the immediate context.
Robert Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, Samie said: Colossians 2:13 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins.... This is saying that before you believed in Jesus, i.e, while you were dead in your sins living for the desires of your fallen nature, that God put your Adamic life into Christ at the incarnation and hence your corporate life was "made alive with Christ" and thus your sins have been legally forgiven.
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Robert said: The only way to bear fruit (i.e., do good works) is to remain in Christ by faith. Without Christ you can't bear genuine fruit. That's the immediate context. Believing is exercising faith, which is fruit of the Spirit. Only those In Christ can bear fruit. Yet you say the spiritually dead in sin - those APART from Christ - can believe, hence, according to you they have borne fruit while APART from Christ. So why should I apologize when I'm telling the truth as it is in Scriptures?
Robert Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 Just now, Samie said: Believing is exercising faith, which is fruit of the Spirit. Only those In Christ can bear fruit. Yet you say the spiritually dead in sin - those APART from Christ - can believe, hence, according to you they have borne fruit while APART from Christ. So why should I apologize when I'm telling the truth as it is in Scriptures? That's not what the context of John 15:1-8 states and you know it! Re-read this passage again and again and you will find nothing that supports your erroneous position - nothing!!!
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, Robert said: That's not what the context of John 15:1-8 states and you know it! That's according to you. Another sample of a polar opposite: Christ said: Those who abide in Me can bear fruit. Robert says: Apart from Christ man can bear fruit.
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 Just now, Samie said: Robert says: Apart from Christ man can bear fruit. By teaching that people are born spiritually dead in sin, Robert is in fact saying that people are born APART from Christ. And to be In Christ, they - the spiritually dead in sin - need to first believe. But believing is exercising faith, which is fruit of the Spirit only those NOT apart from Christ can bear. Therefore, Robert is saying that while APART from Christ, people can believe and therefore implying that they have already borne the fruit called faith which they exercised to believe.
Robert Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, Samie said: That's according to you. No Samie, that's blatantly false. It's not according to me. The Apostle John quoted Christ. Christ said it. Here it is again: "If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." If you remain in Christ by faith, then Christ will bear fruit (good works) through you because without faith you can't do anything good. Faith, therefore, is the prerequisite of doing good works.
Robert Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 11 minutes ago, Samie said: By teaching that people are born spiritually dead in sin, Robert is in fact saying that people are born APART from Christ. Ad nauseam already....
Robert Posted May 28, 2016 Posted May 28, 2016 47 minutes ago, Robert said: Let's explore this with some integrity and honesty. Let's go to the heart of some of Paul's "in Christ" statements: The classics are found in Romans 6:6/7:4 "...Our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with...." "...You also died to the law through the body of Christ..." Note that Paul states that "you", that is, your old self, died according to the justice of God's law, in Christ. Now Christ, as the Son of man, died the second death - which is goodbye to life forever. According to Paul "you" died with Him on Calvary and therefore "you" are eternally dead. That's the second death. Who then is Samie? I mean if you died then you can't possibly be posting on Club Adventist, right? What should we then conclude? That Samie, the individual, didn't die the second death. Then what died? Your old self, i.e., your Adamic life. In theological terms your corporate life eternally died with Christ, as the Son of Man, on His cross. In other words the fallen life you share with Adam died "in Christ" and not Samie the individual. Yes? Why not address the context?
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 14 minutes ago, Robert said: No Samie, that's blatantly false. It's not according to me. The Apostle John quoted Christ. Christ said it. Here it is again: "If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." If you remain in Christ by faith, then Christ will bear fruit (good works) through you because without faith you can't do anything good. Faith, therefore, is the prerequisite of doing good works. "Remain in Me" implies the person is already In Christ. But you teach that people are born APART from Christ. How can they "remain in Christ" when they are yet APART from Him?
Samie Posted May 28, 2016 Author Posted May 28, 2016 1 minute ago, Samie said: "Remain in Me" implies the person is already In Christ. But you teach that people are born APART from Christ. How can they "remain in Christ" when they are yet APART from Him? But you teach that people - while yet APART from Christ - need to first believe, to first EXERCISE faith which is fruit of the Spirit only those NOT apart from Christ can bear. Hence by teaching that people need to first believe - exercise faith, you are implying those APART from Christ already have faith. And that's your context I said you concocted.
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