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[stinsonmarri]

On 8/18/2018 at 1:06 AM, JoeMo said:

I did some broader research rather than what I just "learned" in church.  You may be correct.  At any rate, I stand down from my insistence that Ishmael was an Arab.  Thanks for the education.

Well again I going to prove you are not correct:

Now these are the generations of Ishmael, son of Abraham, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's handmaid, gave birth unto Abraham:  And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their lineages: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth, and Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam,  Mishma, Dumah, Massa,  Hadar, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah.  These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns and by their palaces; twelve princes according to their families.  And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, one hundred thirty-seven years; and Ishmael expired and died and was gathered unto his people.  And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria; and he fell in the presence of all his brethren. Gen 25:12-18 

 Here the Bible is clear where the live, which is over 800 miles from Mecca. They also did move in the land of Israel and was push back with Abraham other sons of Keturah. If you read Gen Chapter 25 all of Abraham sons were given gifts but the inheritance belong to Issac and his children. Ishmael did associate with the Children Israel because they worked in David's army. The Midianites turn from YAHWEH, but the Ishmaelites seem to return to HIM at lease some of them. The other sons of Abraham all lived close to Egypt and Moses met the Midianite in the area of Sinai. This is north as indicated near Egypt and SE Gilead near Jordan.

 Adbeel. Mentioned elsewhere only 1 Chron. 1:29. This may be Idibi–il, mentioned in cuneiform inscriptions of the Assyrian king Tiglath-pileser III as a tribe near the border of Egypt. SDA Bible Commentary Vol. 1, p. 368

Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt. Gen 37:28 

Then the men of Israel said unto Gideon, Rule thou over us, both thou, and thy son, and thy son's son also: for thou hast delivered us from the hand of Midian. And Gideon said unto them, I will not rule over you, neither shall my son rule over you: YAHWEH shall rule over you. And Gideon said unto them, I would desire a request of you, that ye would give me every man the earrings of his prey. For they had golden earrings, because they were Ishmaelites. Judges 8:22-24 

The sons of Hashem the Gizonite, Jonathan the son of Shage the Hararite, Ahiam the son of Sacar the Hararite, Eliphal the son of Ur, Joel the brother of Nathan, Mibhar the son of Haggeri, 1 Chronicles 11:34, 35, 38 (The Hagarites were descended from Hagar, the mother of Ishmael. bible-studys.org.)

Over the camels also [was] Obil the Ishmaelite: and over the asses [was] Jehdeiah the Meronothite: 1 Chronicles 27:30

For so YAHWEH has said to me, Within a year, as the years of a hireling, all the glory of Kedar shall be ended, Isa 21:16

Arabia, and all the princes of Kedar, they occupied with thee in lambs, and rams, and goats: in these were they thy merchants. Eze 27:21

 Notice here the word Arabia is use for the Arabs and separately the Bible uses the princes of Kedar, they were both merchants. Most of the Arabs that had spices would come through Yemen. But the spices of Ishmael would come through SE Gilead this is the land they were close to. Yemen were 800 miles away and both had animals to sell.

The lie is with Ishmael son Kedar (Heb. Qêdâr) that means "dusk or black" and the Arabic alphabet had not yet been developed at this time. In Aramaic the transliteration is QDRYN and the Arabic trilateral root q-d-r means "to measure, compute, estimate;" "to decree, appoint, ordain"; and "to have power, or ability." The word or noun is not Qedar but in Arabic Qidr, derived from the same root, means "cauldron, kettle", and also gives the verbal derivation, "to cook." (Eshel in Lipschitz, p. 148-149; Stetkevych, p. 73)

The burden of Arabia: You shall stay in the forest of Arabia, travelers of Dedanites. The people of the land of Tema bring water to him who is thirsty; they went to meet the fugitive with his bread.  Isa 21:13, 14

 And in the days of Saul they made war with the Hagarites, who fell by their hand: and they dwelt in their tents throughout all the east land of Gilead. And they made war with the Hagarites, with Jetur, and Nephish, and Nodab. 1Ch 5:10, 19 

 Passengers of Tĕma looked expectantly, travellers of Sheḇa waited for them. Job 6:19  TS2009

Blessings!

[Lone Ranger]

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 11:06 PM, JoeMo said:

 At any rate, I stand down from my insistence that Ishmael was an Arab. 

I'm not sure I would back down so quickly. Having lived in Egypt two years I know it is common knowledge that Arabs consider Abraham their Father through Ishmael. Even the briefest Googling revealed several resources supporting this position. Two Arabic tribes trace their heritage directly through Ishmael's sons.

It should be remembered that at the time of Abraham and Ishmael the "Arabs" were not an identifiable nation, but a loose confederacy of individual tribal/family groups of unknown number, much like the Hebrew tribes of later years that left Egypt and entered Canaan. They (Arab tribes) were united by Muhammad, of whom Ishmael is considered the forefather.