A response to Dr. Ben.

[Robert]

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benherndon said:

Ellen White said to get all one's doctrines and reforms from the Bible and it alone. Why don't people do that?

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"But I do not ask you to take my words. Lay Sister White to one side. Do not quote my works again as long as you live until you can obey the Bible....I exalt the precious word before you today. Do not repeat what I have said, saying, "Sister White said this," and, "Sister White said that." Find out what the Lord God of Israel says, and then do what He commands.--Ms 43, 1901, p. 10. (E. G. White talk in college library, April 1, 1901.)

[Robert]

Ben,

Analyze this quote:

"Do not think that, because we have a glimmer of the light of God, that we have it all."

This was stated in 1889....Note she states that "we" [EGW and the SDA church then] "have a glimmer of the light of God".

Glimmer: "To shine faintly"

Why should we follow a "glimmer of light" that they had then when we can go to the Bible?

-BC- 1SM

-TI- Selected Messages Book 1

-CN- 64

-CT- The Darkness Comprehended It Not

-PR- 02

-PG- 401

The question has been asked me, "Do you think that the Lord has any more light for us as a people?" I answer that He has light that is new to us, and yet it is precious old light that is to shine forth from the Word of truth [i.e., the Bible]. We have only the glimmerings of the rays of the light that is yet to come to us [future tense]. [1890]

And this was after 1888 and righteous by faith....

[David Koot]

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benherndon said:

I CAN read English...quite well actually.

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So can I. In fact, I tested in the top .0002 of High School seniors in the nation for English language skills, and took Honors English in college. I can read English, and write it as well. So, I know very well what I wrote, I did read it and I understood the words. There is not a single line in any of my posts which could be construed as giving E.G. White's writings 'authority over the New Testament' or any part of the Bible. Nor would such be my intention. In fact, I have consistently stated the opposite. If, however, careful study of the Bible harmonizes with what Sr. White wrote, that does not mean that Sr. White is exalted above the Bible--simply that she bears witness to what the Bible says.

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Read the New Testament in a modern version leaving off all other reading on spiritual matters for a couple of years to wean yourself back to the Bible only!

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That is an inconsistent statement. The Bible includes both Testaments, referred to as the Two Witnesses. The New Testament writers and key figures, including Jesus, instruct the importance of reading the Scriptures, by which they meant the Old Testament. In fact, somewhere around 1/3 of the NT is quoted from the OT, as I recall. It is not possible to clearly understand the NT without reference to the OT. As for 'modern translations,' the one you have recommended in the past--the Living Bible/NLB--does not purport to be an accurate translation, but a paraphrase, reflecting the theological leanings of the editors. Not a good way to get an accurate understanding of Scripture.

[David Koot]

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benherndon said:

Surely you understood me. But to clarify it more, let me say that it means reading outside of and separate from a 'cultic-type guru mentality'. I think most people who know the New Testament really well will know what 'sensible reading' of 'the writings' would mean.

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IOW you reject the prophetic ministry of EGW, and simply call her writings 'pastoral,' in the same category as the other names you listed. And, apparently, someone who accepts her prophetic ministry and authority, you would characterize as having a 'cultic-type guru mentality.' That is, of course, your free choice, but it certainly would not seem to be borne out by the facts. Nor is it in harmony with the teaching of the Adventist church.

[benherndon]

If I gave the impression that I know all about the Bible, let me apologize...but I know is so very much better than I did after completing 20 formal years of SDA schooling.

The glimmer of light we have had and to now have does not exhaust the matters to be learned from the Bible....all of it.

I have never said the OT was to be ignored. However, it is clear to me after at least 20 reading of the OT that it was written to apply to the Jews exclusively. Only those of other tribes or nations could be Jews by certain techniques not widely available to other than Jewish people.

I agree fully with the quote you've chosen from EGW and I think the Bible, particularly the NT confirms what she says.

Thank you Robert for those quotes. I've seen them long ago but it has been some time since I read them.

What you are writing, Robert, shows the way EGW thought at one time compared to another.

About three yrs ago I did a little investigating about EGWs comments on What Law does Galatians refer to? If I recall correctly she said it was the "ceremonial" Law, later she said it was the 'moral' law, then she said it was both the 'ceremonial' and the 'moral'. Later yet she said to quit talking about it at all and even set the President of the GC back for having brought it up again. Most have noted that she wrote as she was moved at the time in many ways and on many subjects. That is not to say she is 'bad' or all wrong all the time by any means. She was and her works are remarkable. For her time she did a wonderful service to her followers and for the Lord. Exceptions do appear to ahve taken place like the Damon affair. But we can overlook those inconsistencies if we don't classify her as nearCanonical.

Thanks for your insights.

Ben

[Robert]

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David Koot said:

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benherndon said:

I CAN read English...quite well actually.

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So can I. In fact, I tested in the top .0002 of High School seniors in the nation for English language skills, and took Honors English in college. I can read English, and write it as well. So, I know very well what I wrote, I did read it and I understood the words.

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1 John 2:16 "For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world."

Proverbs 11:2 "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom."

[Paula]

I am glad this subject was brought up. For a couple of years now I have been struggling with EGW. The Bible says that if even one thing that a prophet predicts does not come true, to stay away, for it means they are a false prophet. It seems to me that Sister White said more than one thing that did not come true. So does this make her a false prophet? If not, why? Because she is "our prophet"? I want to believe her and have no doubts... but I feel torn between the Bible and SOP. I have very close friends who are mormons, and I tell them they must not believe in their prophet just because it is what they have always known... that they must compare with the Bible, and if it is found lacking in ANYTHING, that they must then reject him. So is not the same required of me?

I just pray that the Lord will open my mind and show me His Truth... whatever it may be, and wherever it may lead.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Sorry no fear here, at least not the kind you're referring to Rob, you missed my point.

Norman

[Robert]

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Sorry no fear here, at least not the kind you're referring to Rob, you missed my point.

Norman

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No...you appealed to "fear" in response to my post.

Rob

[Robert]

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It seems to me that Sister White said more than one thing that did not come true.

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I am not sure about that....Can you give me an example.

[Paula]

Well, one time was when she stated that her angel had told her that some of the people in a meeting would not die. That not all would become "worm food", but would see the Lord return. Another case is that of the Shut Door, where she is catergorical in stating that Jesus himself closed the door, and no one else could be saved. There are more things, but off the top of my head right now I can't remember them all.

Then there are the smaller issues... such as, statments to the effect that, "those who are unconverted in regards to the eating of meat will be lost" (not word for word)... and yet she ate it nearly till she died, including unclean meats such as Oysters. If God told her these things through an Angel, why didn't she live them? Things like when she chastised the brethren for spending money on Photographs, when she did the same herself.. and on and on and on. There are many many instances of, if not, prophetic error, of at least "contradictions". I know that we all know what God wants from us, and yet don't always obey. But it seems like if one is called as a Prophet, and one gets these directions from an ANGEL on a near daily basis, that one would be much more obedient than the rest of us (if for no other reason than that you will be standing before your guardian angel that night, or even Jesus Himself, in vision). It would also seem that if she was disobeying all these specific commands that at some point she would no longer be worthy as a Prophet.

Also, the fact that she borrowed from books. And allegations that Steps to Christ were really written by her assistants (through copy and paste of her past writings)... and yet she does not credit them. When Paul dictated to Theophilus he gave him credit. It just seems like, if God is using her, and showing her the visions and making her capable of seeing all these things, would He give her an incomplete gift? Would she need to copy examples out of other books? Would the Lord not enable her to write what she saw for herself? She had the "editors" anyways... they could have fixed any mistakes...

Now, please understand, I don't want to doubt her. But how can I expect my mormon friends to closely scrutinize their prophet, but not be willing to do the same to mine? Why are their explanations, "Excuses" but mine truth? Am I being honest, or just believing as I have been taught? And if I am believing incorrectly, won't God require me to be honest and search out the truth? After all, he warned us not to be taken in by false prophets... Again, I am not saying she is a false prophet. I hope she isn't. But I guess that as an SDA it is very scary to scrutinize her, because in a way, it feels like in doing so, I am "losing my religion".

[Robert]

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Well, one time was when she stated that her angel had told her that some of the people in a meeting would not die. That not all would become "worm food", but would see the Lord return.

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Probably a conditional prophecy....I know she said that if the Church would have received the 1888 message the Lord would have come back then....

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Another case is that of the Shut Door, where she is categorical in stating that Jesus himself closed the door, and no one else could be saved.

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Maybe whom ever she was speaking of had the unpardonable sin? Maybe they had completely harden their hearts? I don't know....

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"those who are unconverted in regards to the eating of meat will be lost" (not word for word)... and yet she ate it nearly till she died, including unclean meats such as Oysters.

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Well, that's a tough one....I didn't know she ate "oysters"....That's a new one to me.

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There are many many instances of, if not, prophetic error, of at least "contradictions".

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You'll have to quote them one at a time....I am not an apologist, but I'll take a stab at it....

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Also, the fact that she borrowed from books. And allegations that Steps to Christ were really written by her assistants (through copy and paste of her past writings)... and yet she does not credit them.

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She only had a 3rd grade education, so I am sure she needed help in getting her ideas down....

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Now, please understand, I don't want to doubt her. But how can I expect my mormon friends to closely scrutinize their prophet, but not be willing to do the same to mine?

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She makes a statement to the effect that either she is of God or the devil....I’ll go with God and I'll tell you why: She was years ahead concerning her knowledge of the incarnation. She understood the "in Christ" truth, especially after 1888. She also understood the essence of sin, i.e., self-seeking!

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But I guess that as an SDA it is very scary to scrutinize her, because in a way, it feels like in doing so, I am "losing my religion".

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EGW is not the church....She is not its pope. If you feel uncomfortable with her sale her books and read your Bible.....In fact EGW stated that if people had read their Bibles she would have been out of a job!

Rob

[benherndon]

Here it is, Robert:

"Mary, if you can get me a good box of herrings, fresh ones, please do so. These last ones that Willie got are bitter and old. If you can buy cans, say, half a dozen cans, of good tomatoes, please do so. We shall need them. If you can get a few cans of good oysters, get them." {MR852 2.3}

[LifeHiscost]

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it is clear to me after at least 20 reading of the OT that it was written to apply to the Jews exclusively. Ben

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[:"red"] "And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" [/] Mark 2:27 KJV

[:"red"] "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

" [/] John 4:22 KJV

I appreciate your allowing me, a cultist guru by your definition Ben, the right to salvation through Jesus. It does reveal very clearly that Jesus is capable of saving even those who wander in ignorance.

[:"red"] "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." [/] Luke 23:34 KJV

[:"red"] "Now to Him Who, by (in consequence of) the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams]-- " [/] Ephesians 3:20 AMP

[:"red"] "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

" [/] 2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV

Keep the faith!!

[LifeHiscost]

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"But I do not ask you to take my words. Lay Sister White to one side. Do not quote my works again as long as you live until you can obey the Bible....I exalt the precious word before you today.

Do not repeat what I have said, saying, "Sister White said this," and, "Sister White said that."

Find out what the Lord God of Israel says, and then do what He commands.--Ms 43, 1901, p. 10. (E. G. White talk in college library, April 1, 1901.)

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The problem with quoting this to the person who does not believe Ellen White, is that since she wrote it, they don't believe it either.

[:"red"] "THE PLANS of the mind and orderly thinking belong to man, but from the Lord comes the [wise] answer of the tongue." [/] Proverbs 16:1 AMP

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

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I am glad this subject was brought up. For a couple of years now I have been struggling with EGW.

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Paula,

I have been accepting what was written by Ellen White as a gift of God for our Father's end time people, for over half a century. Not perfectly mind you, but making an effort. Every bit of information which was understandable to me, when followed earnestly, striving to do that which it counseled, I was blest with a strong sense of God's presence, witness to many miracles along the way as a corroboration of our Lord's approbation.

I took God at His Word when I stumbled and knew He did not condemn me for my poor performance, even though I hurt others because of a lack of consistent living.

I still struggle today to live with God's special gift to His people, recognizing that it is not by the works, no matter how flawlessly performed, that I am saved.

A person does not have to struggle to prove God's gifts to be true, the same as one need not struggle to prove fairy tales are true. The proof is in the presence of the Holy Spirit when one is delivered from the grasp of the enemy of souls, as a direct result of listening and heeding the voice of God when He speaks through one of His servants.

[:"red"] "And the LORD hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending them; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear.

" [/] Jeremiah 25:4 KJV

[:"red"] "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

[/] Amos 3:7 KJV

[:"red"] "Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper." [/] 2 Chronicles 20:20 KJV

I have proven God's latter day servant to be true the same way God asked me to prove Him to be true.

[:"red"] Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this," says the LORD of hosts, "if I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows. " [/] Mal 3:10 NASB

(BTW, Ellen white never referred to herself as a prophet of God) And I would also like to add, neither have I seen God's promises fulfilled in entirety yet. But He has advice for that also.

[:"red"] "And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men." [/] Micah 5:7 KJV

[:"red"] "Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. " [/] 1 Timothy 1:16 NASB

God bless you in your journey toward the kingdom.

[David Koot]

I should like to add my experience, after reading what LifeHisCost wrote. I first really experienced Ellen G. White's writings in academy. We were assigned to read through the Great Controversy. What I particularly noticed as I read the book, was a sense of God's presence and that God was in that book. There was something special about it, unlike the other books on religion. There was life in that book, and I felt it, and experienced it.

Years later, I went back to reading her books. I experienced God's presence there again, and God spoke to me through her books. It was different from other books. God was there, His Spirit was there, speaking through her books.

I have done research, I have carefully studied out various questions which have arisen. I see that she was an uneducated person who, at first, used language and grammar which showed her lack of education. She used simple language to describe the visions which God gave her. Later, her assistants improved the wording, which, I understand, she proofed to make sure that it was according to what she had been shown. After reading the various objections to her writings, I came to the conclusion that they were ultimately based on didsagreement: that is, the individuals don't agree with what she wrote, don't like what she wrote, and thus set out to 'kill the messenger.'

I also recognize that she without doubt had her own limitations--limitations of understanding, of comprehension. But, then, so does every person. God uses people in spite of their limitations. God knows our limitations, and is able to frame His communications to us, within those limitations. God leads a person a step at a time, and I don't doubt that He did so with Ellen White as well. At each step of her prophetic ministry, however, she correctly recorded what she was shown by God, to the best of her ability. Without a doubt, she was inspired by God and she wrote authoritatively as God's prophet. Her writings are not a substitute for the Bible, but they are consistent with the Bible. they are a 'lesser light' than the Bible, but they are still inspired, and we will be blessed as we accept and follow the instruction which God has given us through Ellen G. White.

[Paula]

Just a quick reply. I never had a problem with EGW really until I started studying with my Mormon friends. And David's and LifeHisCost's posts really are one aspect of that problem. Both of you state that you feel Gods "presence" in reading her books and that it is the Holy Spirit showing the truth found in her works. That God is in them. However, my Mormon friends believe in their books for the same reason. They feel the presence of God very strongly and are 100% sure that what they have is truth because the "spirit" testifies of it to them. I have repeatedly told them that our hearts and feelings and impressions are not to be our guide, but that we must hold firm to the "Thus saith the Lord". And then, when there are inconsistencies in what their prophets says, or in portions where he at first said one thing, but later on changed his position, they say the same thing we do. That he grew in his knowledge. That the Lord uses people where they are. That if he misunderstood something, it is because he was human, but that once he understood it correctly, he corrected himself. And so the question arises... Do we just believe what we chose to believe? And if so, then who am I to tell someone else to take the speck out of their eye, when there may very well be a log in mine?

Now, when I compare our beliefs to the Bible, I am certain that what we believe is correct, Biblically. But if none of our doctrins came from EGW, as is repeatedly stated (even in books published officially by the church), then what need do we have of her? And if she IS needed, then do we pick and choose what to obey, or do we take a literist approach and do everything she said as though it were a second gospel?

I try to live a balanced life. Not going to one extreme, nor the other. But it is very difficult to reconcile EGW as a Prophet, and yet see inconsistencies that I do not tolerate in someone else's prophet.

I guess what I am looking for is a rational reason to believe in her, instead of an emotional one, or one that is based on "faith" that she is what she claimed to be. So, if there are any takers... I'd certainly appreciate it!!

[David Koot]

First of all, Paula, that sense of God's presence is not a substitute for conformity to God's holy Word, the Bible. Nor should EGW be a substitute for the Bible. In fact, in my work as an evangelist, I do not use EGW as a source of doctrinal information at all. All my work is done straight from the Bible.

As for the Mormons, yes, I know that whole scene quite well. Have had friends who were Mormons, and yes they tried to sell me on their stuff. Had studies with missionaries for awhile. Here is a MAJOR difference! The Book of Mormon is claimed to correct errors in the Bible. It is also claimed to be on the same level as the Bible--not a lesser light, but an equal light at least. EGW is not on the same level as the Bible, and she called herself a lesser light. She also stated that our doctrines were to be based on the Bible, not on her writings. That is exactly the opposite of the Mormons!!! And, once the Mormons get into their studies, it is ALL from the Book of Mormon! That is why they quit studying with me. I kept on insisting on the Bible and the Bible only.

Ellen White said that if people had studied the Bible as they should, then her prophetic ministry would not have been needed. Her ministry falls within Paul's description of the prophetic gift--to exhort, admonish, etc. Why were prophets needed other than the Bible writers? It is one of the gifts of the Spirit, and the need arises to exhort, admonish, reprove, call people to repentance and to point them to God and to His Word.

In Bible times, God raised up prophets other than the Bible writers, and called upon people to heed their instruction. That prophetic gift is promised to God's church, through the end of time. We are blessed to have it with us in these last days.

As for comparing EGW with Joseph Smith, or Brigham Young, there is simply no comparison. In my studies recently with a Mormon, who was baptized into the SDA church afterwards, I reviewed the Doctrines and Covenants, the various publications of the Mormon church, etc. I know the history of the movmement, I have read the stuff--which the mmissionaries won't share in their studies--and the difference is night and day.

Dave

[Paula]

Hey David!

Thanks for the reply!

I think I didn't explain myself well. I agree wholeheartedly that there is a WORLD of difference between Joseph Smith and Ellen White. I agree that she writes accordign to the Bible and that she admonishes us to use the Bible and the Bible only. The inconsistencies and such found in EGW are microscopic in comparision to those of Joseph Smith. I too insist on using the Bible only. What I am saying is that if I use the argument that their prophet has erred, and that as such, that makes him a false prophet, then what is my reaction to their suggestion that my prophet has erred as well? Regardless of the degree to which one has erred, is it not still error? And if it is not, if it really is just a case of a fallible human being, growing in knowledge, etc.. etc.. then where do we draw the line? When is it too much error? At what level is it acceptable?

[Gerr]

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Norman said:

I have no problem with what she said to her son and then said to others. There are things that I would say to Lee Michael (my step son - 11 yrs old) that I would never say to other kids. Why? Because I know him and I know how to communicate effectively with him.

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Let's analyze her quotes:

a] “wicked children God does not love"

This contradicts the Bible:

Romans 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the wicked... 8 God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

b] "he [God] only admits the good, obedient, and patient children there."

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The same Bible also says: [:"red"]

"God is a just judge,

And God is angry with the wicked every day." Ps 7:11 NKJ

[/]

Gerry

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Rob,

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No...you appealed to "fear" in response to my post.

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it may have appeared that way, but the fear I was referring to was the fear that we should have concerning the damage we do to ourselves by rejecting truth.

You then made a comment to which I replied, sort of the thinking of Annanias and his wife Saphira.

They had no concept of what their beliefs and actions would cause them to do nor the results of their choices.

Initially I was trying to say that it is a dangerous thing to discount EGW and that I would check myself first before calling her false or misguided.

I hope that clears up my comments,

Norman

[Robert]

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Norman said:

I have no problem with what she said to her son and then said to others. There are things that I would say to Lee Michael (my step son - 11 yrs old) that I would never say to other kids. Why? Because I know him and I know how to communicate effectively with him.

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Let's analyze her quotes:

a] “wicked children God does not love"

This contradicts the Bible:

Romans 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the wicked... 8 God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

b] "he [God] only admits the good, obedient, and patient children there."

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The same Bible also says: [:"red"]

"God is a just judge, And God is angry with the wicked every day." Ps 7:11 NKJ

[/]

Gerry

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"With the wicked" has been added in the KJV! Here's how it reads:

"God is a righteous judge, a God who expresses his wrath every day."

God's wrath is when He abandons those who persistently reject Him....God's wrath is passive! He never remains where He is unwanted.

Rob

[Robert]

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Initially I was trying to say that it is a dangerous thing to discount EGW and that I would check myself first before calling her false or misguided.

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I didn't call her "false" or "misguided"! I simply said that she grew in her knowledge.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Dr. Ben, I hope you and your wife are having a great Sabbath.

First I want to tell you that I have not forgotten about the question you asked me a while back.

Here's some things you about me that will help you to see where I come from on this topic. In 1980, while I was living in Montreal Canada, I became a vegetarian and then began searching for truth shortly after. Later that year I moved to Edmonton AB to be with a buddy so we could start a band and make a living playing music. While there I got a job in a health food store and a lady came in and we started to talk about health. I told her I was a vegetarian and thought that God had not given us the teeth or intestines to be meat eaters.

She brought her sons to see me and invited me to a seminar. I went as often as I could and what I head rang home and was baptized into Christ. I just accepted what I heard, it just sounded so right and deep within I knew it was true.

In 81 and about a year later I moved to Uchee Pines in Seale, AL because I wanted a deeper experience with God.

There I learned more about the Lord and SOP. There I followed SOP to the TEE. You could not find fault in me as an SDA. I got up at the right time, ate a vegan diet helped with all types seminars taught SS loved people and was in charge of the student cafeteria and on and on. For that period of my life it all worked for me. Then I began to stop doing some of the things that we are counseled to do and my spiritual life began to slip and slip till I ended up leaving the church and God in 1986.

So I have learned that when committed to the Lord it is possible to live a perfect life of service and love to others and the Lord. If you haven't done so “you” have no grounds for complaining about SOP. Unless one has been fully committed and can prove that this does not work, it is a waste of time to speak against SOP. It's like saying something can't be done and never having tried it with your whole being. I know it works and other's have experienced this as well. Therefore what you say is strange to me. It makes no sense. So you can see hwy I can't agree with what you say. It worked for me how can I deny that and say "Well Ben is right?" I'd have to deny my experience and say it was not true, but I can't do that.

I tried the spirit and it is of God. Having said that, I do not go to EGW to learn about doctrine, I study the Bible first then check to see what she has to say about it. Most of the time we’re in harmony and if not I check myself out to see that I understand what I have written or what she says. Again, that’s after Bible study.

After I left church in 1986 I made a mess of myself and when I came back in 96 I made some life changing discoveries. While looking back I saw that a lot of what I had done at Uchee Pines was because of legalism. So I decided not give myself to the Lord and I did not follow SOP until I had the desire to do so. I did not want to just start living the same life again because I knew where that led. I devoted my whole life to getting to know God as my Father. I am not kidding about this I was completely committed to God. Again I found myself living a SDA life but this time it was because I loved Abba more than life. I gave myself completely. Having done that I came to understand that SOP was given to God’s people who are converted, committed and living for the Lord. If you are not completely given to God, SOP will be a problem. I have lived this too and know this to be fact.

So the question remains for us all, have we completely surrendered our lives to God because we loved Him and would rather die than to hurt Him by our disobedience?

It has little to do with the times we live in but it has a lot to do with our personal love for the Lord. I guarantee that if one is not committed to God in Christ you will not understand SOP as you will have a veil of unbelief to block your view of the love of God in giving us such a precious gift.

Wisdom from above can come in 5 minutes and give you a life time of understanding, where a life time of human reasoning will get us confused.

My thoughts about SOP and EGW come from what I have experienced and what I have found in the Bible. You may not agree with me and that’s ok, but that is where I come from and I cannot change what I know to be true. And in humbleness I have been where you are and know that it is a dangerous place to be. You seem to want to keep holding on to something that is hindering you, for a reason that only you truly know. That’s my humble opinion and I don’t say this to make myself anything. This is what I see.

To make it clear, I believe that EGW is God’s messenger for this time and is not to be preached from nor is her writings above the Bible, but is given to us as a gift from God for our well being, that it may be well with us.

Sincerely

Norman