A response to Dr. Ben.

May 16, 2006

Hi Paula,

You said,

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

However, if you could look in my heart you would see that I would like nothing more than to have all these doubts dispelled and have an assurance that I was right in believing her writtings.

I'm glad you're speaking honestly. I have a question that I'd like you to answer honestly, you don't have to if you feel uncomfortable. Do you have any nagging doubts about your salvation? Like there's just something missing but you are not sure what it is?

Thanks,

Norman

May 16, 2006

Ben,

you are so right about Adventists puting EGW ahead of the Bible and using her as an authority.

What I've suggested years ago is the following...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1 - put all of EGW books in a box and store in a closet for at least a year!

2 - pray and ask God's forgiveness for misusing her works and puting her ahead of the Bible!

3- Read the Bible and believe just what it says and let the Scriptures be your sole authority in all spiritual matters!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The only problem is: no Adventist will ever do that! And that is very sad.

==========================================================

THE ABOVE IS TRULY THE GREATEST PROBLEM IN THE ADVENTIST CHURCH TODAY! (or in any day)

"Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God"(Matt. 4:4)

We used to be called 'a people of the Book'...no more.

So let us spend far less time concerning Ellen White and far more time praising and honoring and glorifying our bless Savior, Jesus Christ!!!

Bill Mead

[]meadbd@att.net[/]

May 16, 2006

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The Holy Spirit in us gives us the power to overcome all known sin.

Because God has said it, Norman, I agree with the possibility. However our Father also faithfully reveals reality. Our hope is not in the reality of fallen man's possibilities, but in the promises of unfallen Man's reality.

[:"red"] "If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,)... " [/] 1 Kings 8:46 KJV

[:"red"] "If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. " [/] 2 Timothy 2:13 NASB

[:"red"] "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." [/] 1 John 1:9 KJV

Keep the faith!!

May 16, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

1Jo 3:6

Norman

[:"red"]"So if we continue to live in him, we won't sin either. But those who keep on sinning have never known him or understood who he is." [/] 1 John 3:6 NLT

While I recognize the NLT to be unacceptable to some, Norman, if the truth of this scripture cannot be found to be true, there can be no consistency or hope of eternal life

for those who find themselves to be falling short of the glory of God.

This is a promise to be fulfilled in entirety at the coming of Jesus, though I recognize that the disciples of Jesus will not be purposefully sinning against their Master, a direct fulfillment of Philippians 2:13 KJV

[:"red"] "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." [/]

As to the present;

[:"red"] "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" [/] Romans 3:23 KJV

Keep looking up!!

May 16, 2006

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Hey David!

then where do we draw the line? When is it too much error? At what level is it acceptable?

[:"red"] "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

" [/] Matthew 13:30 KJV

[:"red"] " "So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown;

but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God."

They took his advice; and after calling the apostles in, they flogged them and ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and then released them. " [/] Acts 5:38-40 NASB

Seems like a good plan to me. Keep the faith!

May 16, 2006

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I know the history of the movmement

and fascinating it is, too.

"No Man Knows My History" - Fawn Brodie

Another interesting read is

"A Gathering Of Saints" - Robert Lindsay

/Bevin

May 16, 2006

Hi Life,

I am encouraged when I get this response to what I have written. Here's why, but 1st a little more history that helped me understand what God is yearning to do in us.

In 1996 when I returned to church I initially had some doubts about my salvation. I started living like I was before I left church. I asked myself, “Why am I not so certain about my salvation. Then as I began to study more I found such assurance in the Bible!

I understood that this time of great revival that we are waiting for is now! I took God at His word and my life has been different since. I was not perfect, but perfectly in love with my Father. God began to do things in my life that I had never experienced before.

We are the ones hindering God with our own misunderstanding, thinking that sometime in the future we will live more fully for God. Not so! Today is the day of salvation and therefore God gives us the power we need to live the life He desires now. The power of the Holy Spirit given at Pentecost has not been withdrawn. I did not find any place in the NT that said there would be a time that the Holy Spirit would be withdrawn and then given at some later date. This means that we can live an amazing life today, witnessing as did the Apostles and the early church that was on fire.

Because I have experienced this (and know that others have too,) I really dislike the teaching that says we can’t overcome and that we will be this way till Christ returns. As far I am concerned this is lie from Satan himself!

Didn’t our faithful and true witness say, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne”? Rev 3:21

Isn’t Jesus our example in all things? Didn’t He give us all power and the right to become the sons of God? If not then what kind of witnesses can we be? We are to reflect the love of God now and live a life that is selfless now. But as it is written the devil deceiveth the whole world and if we are not prepared and decide to live as Christ lived, we will be deceived with the world.

It really boils down to our desire to serve Him, why are we waiting, what are we waiting for? Why must it always be in the future? Yes, there will be the latter rain and the loud cry but there is much power available to us now! We seem to be caught up in this politically correct form of “Christianity” that leaves us feeling empty and makes us powerless.

I am saying that it is possible to live a life in total surrender and without known sin or bondage to sin. All IT IS, IS A CHOICE! This is Biblical; it is possible to fall and to go astray. But as Peter says, when we are not growing in our spiritual life, it is because we are blind and cannot see in the future (live for the moment) and have forgotten that we have been purged for our old sins. 2Pe 1:9 “But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.”

To forget that we have been purged from our old sins means we have lost our first love for God and are not thankful for all that He has done for us in Christ.

Why must we also wait until we know everything before we commit ourselves to God fully? Doesn’t that reveal a lack of trust and that lack of trust reveal a lack of knowledge of our loving God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent, to whom to know is eternal life?

There is power in the Gospel to live an abundant life, who wants it? It’s there, it’s now and it’s waiting for us. There’s too much of man’s theory going around that leaves us not knowing God and spiritually dead, no love for our enemies, only wanting to defend ourselves and producing no fruit.

I don’t want to live like that!

You said,

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

As to the present;

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23 KJV

This is mainly referring to past tense due to the context. (I know some disagree) That can be seen if you understand what Paul is saying. (I have a study on this that I can send you if you wish) It is true however, but it must not be interpreted as we are continually willfully sinning or in bondage to sinful habits or can never reflect the glory of God. We must look at that verse more closely see what it means. Yes we have sinned, but it must not always be so, at least when it comes to willful sinning or bondage.

Falling short of the Glory of God simply means we are not capable of perfectly reflecting the character of God in our fallen state. (It also means that before the cross this was not possible because Christ had not come to reveal the Father and the Holy Spirit had not been given as it was at Pentecost.) However this doesn’t mean that we will not change and not be able to reflect His character to the best of our capability. When the character of Christ is perfectly reproduced in His people, He will come to claim then as His own. This means when we love as Christ loves. “And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: John 17:22 Note what Christ said, He said that He has, (past tense), given them the glory that the Father gave Him. Well if He has given us this Glory so that we can be one with each other and one with God, how can it be that we fall short of it? If we are falling short of the glory of God continually as some try to say, we would not be able to be one as They are one. Just think that through for a while and see if this doesn’t make sense.

Norman

May 16, 2006

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The love of Christ when believed and experience will cause us to live for Him and not for ourselves.

So you are sinless? Is there ever at time in your experience that you can say, “I am without sin”…I am not sinning?

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Bondage means we haven't experienced God's amazing love

I have one word for you: "Judgmental"

I know of Christians who are in bondage to cigarettes....I know Christians who struggle with sin. I know Christians who have besetting sins - sins of repetition. Yet these are not Christians according to you! Let me give you a quote:

Romans 2:1 Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for in that you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

May 16, 2006

Rob,

Where did I say sinnless? You keep saying or referring to something I never said. It's either perfection that you say I'm talking about or sinnlessness.

I've come to the conclusion that you are incapable of understanding truth, context or what I am saying.

I like you Rob but you are confused.

You may know who ever, it doesn't matter, if they are in bondage they don't know Christ or have forgotten that they have been purged from their former sins, this is Biblical. Read your Bible and pray for guidance.

What does that have to do with me being judgemental? It is truth, I didn't make it up. I'm trying to help people. So what do you tell these people? that it's ok, they are still in a relationship with Christ, not to worry, Christ lived the commandments for them? what do you tell these people who are in bondage and need help desperately?

I know people like that too, I used to be one and know the only way out is to be brutally honest with ones self and go to the Lord for help. Being their comforter avails nothing. Telling them they are will be lost, not that they are lost, wil help them get a grip and go to Christ.

Poeple like this want victory Rob and your feeling sorry for them is of no use to them. They want to know how to escape the grip of Satan and be free, yes free indeed as Christ promised. What good is what you have to tell them with your weak powerless gospel that leave people in their bondage with a false hope of salvation?

Think things through Rob look at peoples hearts and see what truly want and need. We all want to be free in Christ as we were created to be.

Norman

May 16, 2006

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"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23 KJV

This is mainly referring to past tense due to the context. (I know some disagree)

Yes, "some" who understand plain English will disagree.

Here's how you are reading it:

For all have sinned [past tense] by falling short of the glory of God.

Your interpretation describes past sins due to one "falling short".

Here's how it actually reads:

For all have sinned [past tense] AND fall short of the glory of God [present continuous tense].

Here we have two lines of information separated by a coordinating conjunction:

1] "All have sinned"

And

2] "Fall short of the glory of God."

In other words, "All have sinned [past tense] AND [all] fall short of the glory of God [present tense]."

May 17, 2006

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....I used to be one

“I tell you the truth, everyone [Norm included] who sins [and you have sinned] is a slave to sin [John 8:34]."

The fact that you sin proves that you are a slave to sin!

"So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."

"In Christ" we have been "set free" from "the law of sin"! Note I said, "In Christ"!

For the law of the Spirit [the power of the Spirit] in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and of death. [Romans 8:2]

Are you "free" from "the law of sin"? No! You still retain your sinful nature. Only "in Christ" has He defeated "the law of sin and death." Hopefully you have accepted this truth by faith?

Yes, we can experience growth, but to say we must overcome is nothing but pure legalism! We are "complete" in Christ right now!

Rob

May 17, 2006

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I've come to the conclusion that you are incapable of understanding truth....

Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written: ”‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.’” 12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

May 17, 2006

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....I used to be one

<hr /></blockquote>"So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."

If we were actually free from sin, we would not be sinning.

Go to Romans 6 to understand this truth:

Verse 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him....

Our "old sinful life" died when Christ died on the cross. That's because He assumed our life under the curse at the incarnation. The humanity that He assumed was the corporate life of Adam. Since we are the multiplication of his life, Paul could say that "our old self" died "in Christ" on the cross. Why?

so that the body of sin [our sinful life] might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—

Where did our "old self" die? Right, on the cross "IN CHRIST JESUS." That's the context! This is not talking of Christian living....

We are no longer slaves to sin because Christ delivered our humanity from that power by His doing and dying! The proof? God raised Him from the dead!

Verse 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

If I died today, would I be sinning any more? No! Dead man can't sin....Since we died "in Christ" we have, by faith, been reconciled to the Father. We have met the justice of the law "in Him"! Hence, the law can't touch us. Why? The law can't condemn a dead man....

Verse 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

If we have accepted our death "in Christ" by faith, we will live with Him in heaven. We are justified by faith.

Verse 10 The death he [Jesus] died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

This is now Christian living. We consider or reckon ourselves dead to sin. We aim to grow in grace. That's important so that we can experience God's grace. Nevertheless, we fall short of the glory of God.

Rob

May 17, 2006

[Old covenant]

2 Cor 3:14 ...their minds [the Israelites] were hardened [why?]; for to this day, when they read the old covenant [the demands of the law, i.e., obey and live], that same veil remains unlifted, because only in Christ is it [the veil] taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their minds; 16 but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed.

[New covenant]

17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom [from under law].

18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed [nothing of perfection here] into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Remember Moses describes "the glory of God" as being His goodness....Look that one up!

So believers, while still sinners, reflect more of His love as they mature. But all along the way they "fall short" of God's unselfish, self-giving love. Hence, we can never be justified by our growth rather it proves our faith. Let us not judge....

Rob

May 17, 2006

Dear Robert. Thanks for your response. I found Jesus in this church. And when I found Him I had it all.

Jesus does not hate the spirit of Prophecy.

I apologize for those who damaged your life in the Adventist school system. It is such a blessing to be free from any bitterness in our life. Hebrews 12:15 tells us that bitterness will begin to defile those around us. Just a solemn warning for any who have resentment towards the church, other people, or the gift of Prophecy. Let Jesus heal all that instead of wasting the gift of life on fighting the Movement.

In closing, when we flash our sword at legalism, we would do well to avoid striking obedience. Disobedience is what got us into this mess.

brother Ger

May 17, 2006

Rob,

You can go on believing what ever you wish. I have no idea how you come up with some of the conlusion you do.

I don't have time to point out all the misapplied and out of context stuff you wrote. I don't mean to say I won't make time, I just don't have the time, there's just too much of it and I don't want to get into a useless debate about how we intepret Scripture.

I will pray for you,

Norman

May 17, 2006

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I will pray for you,

Norman

Norman...you pray all you want, but I suggest you pray for your own eyes to be opened. You are, like so many SDAs, caught up into legalism. You have this smug self-righteous attitude, but in reality you are very insecure of your own salvation. You are constantly looking to your performance for your ticket to heaven. Since you have no peace you judge others. I feel sad for you....

Sincerely,

Rob

May 17, 2006

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I was not perfect, but perfectly in love with my Father. God began to do things in my life that I had never experienced before.

True. However still falling short as testified by God's word..

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We are the ones hindering God with our own misunderstanding

True, as testified again by the Word.

[:"red"] "For we know in part and we prophesy in part" [/] 1 Cor 13:9

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thinking that sometime in the future we will live more fully for God.

Seems consistent with the Word

[:"red"] "Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you." [/] Philippians 3:13-15 NKJV

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As far I am concerned this is lie from Satan himself!

I'm assuming the last sentence of the scripture above would include you?

,<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Didn’t our faithful and true witness say “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne”?

<hr /></blockquote> Rev 3:21

The principle effective would be the same as in [:"red"]

" If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." [/]

John 14:15 NASB

The Word "will" points forward.

[:"red"] "...as it is written," THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; " [/] Romans 3:10 Emph theirs

LHC

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Isn’t Jesus our example in all things?

There is no doubt. And when we are glorified we will perfectly reflect that example.

[:"red"] "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

" [/] 1 Corinthians 15:53 KJV

[:"red"] "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." [/] Isaiah 64:6

You might ask me, "Does this not bring you to despair?". And I would have to add it only saddens me that I do not perfectly represent the Lord Jesus Christ. But despair, never! And why?

[:"red"] "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." [/] Luke 21:36 KJV

[:"red"] "

Now to Him Who, by (in consequence of) the [action of His] power that is at work within us, is able to [carry out His purpose and] do superabundantly, far over and above all that we [dare] ask or think [infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes, or dreams]-- " [/]

Ephesians 3:20 AMP

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Norman

However I pray that God will continue to bless you in your efforts to be all that God would have you to be. I just happen to believe that all such efforts on our part are insufficient to obtain salvation or meet any of the requirements salvation demands.

What will replace it then?

[:"red"] "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

[Not in your own strength] for it is God Who is all the while effectually at work in you [energizing and creating in you the power and desire], both to will and to work for His good pleasure and satisfaction and delight.

" [/] Philippians 2:13 AMP

[:"red"] "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." [/] Philippians 3:12 KJV

Blessings to you Norm!!

May 17, 2006

Thank you for your committement to God's word, Norman and LC.

Let me encourage you to remain faithful in spite of the attacks of others. I also appreciate the references to overcoming, that is the way of Christ.

In Christ, the Movement can move!

gcw

May 17, 2006

Hi Life,

I believe and the Scripture supports and I have experienced that we can now in this life be overcomers.

What it really boils down to in its simplicity is: loving God so much that our heart longs and aches for Him. When your soul cries out for God, to wish you could be more like Him, and to make life a constant moving towards God because you love Him more than life and you want to be with Him above all the idols of this world.

This is possible and the only reason we have not all experienced this is because we are afraid to trust God fully. We are afraid to trust Him because we don't know Him as He can be known to us.

This is not done in human strength or to gain favor or because we are afraid of losing salvation it is done out of love for God.

Perfect love cast out fear and the question remains, have we let God's love do that to and in us?

I don't have the words to be able to express how I fell about this but I do know that some who are reading this have a burning in their hearts and are thinking, "I want this"

It was never part of God's plan that we should be so lifeless, so cold so weak, so confused and so blind. The truth is that we are and to make matters worse some (I include you) are saying that this will happen in the future. Man, how can you or anyone who believes this have any joy? What a miserable life to live to be in bondage (I don’t mean you specifically) and to think that nothing will change till Christ returns. When Christ returns all we get is a new immortal body; our characters will be changed into His likeness far before that happens.

What I mean by that is that we will love as Christ loves because it is His Spirit that is within us. Just as when Satan’s demons possess people who give themselves over to him act and think just like demons, so Christ does the same thing when we submit and permit His Spirit to work in us and cause us to love and live by the Spirit reflecting the love of God, with broken hearts, humble minds and loving hands and feet.

I don't say these things to put anyone down or to make myself anything above others, how can I? I am just like everyone else. I only believe we are selling ourselves short and then blaming whatever we can find to avoid the death of self.

I am encouraged and will continue to speak out about this because I know God will bless us if we just give Him a try and watch Him work. Take care my friend.

In Christ,

Norman

May 17, 2006

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Hi Life,

Take care my friend.

In Christ,

Norman

I appreciate your response, Norman. And I quite agree that the changes and victories are happening now.

[:"red"] "(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)" [/] 2 Corinthians 6:2 KJV

OTOH it would not need to be a continueing process if what we are now were all that is necessary.

[:"red"] "If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action]. " [/] 1 John 1:9 AMP

If no sins are present, their is no need for cleansing and we have no need for a Savior. We are a work in progress and have no inherent goodness. Only the indwelling Christ provides the righteousness adequate for holy living.

[:"red"] "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." [/] Romans 5:10 KJV

[:"red"] "...for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us -- those being saved -- it is the power of God, " [/] 1 Corinthians 1:18 YLT

[:"red"] "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." [/] Romans 10:3 KJV

[:"red"] "He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit..." [/] Titus 3:5 AMP

There is no doubt in my mind, there will be literal victories gained, as well as acts of righteousness accomplished when the believer abides in Christ. However each act of goodness performed is a result of the life of Christ indwelling where He is invited to live.

[:"red"] "'Because you say, " I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked, " [/] Revelation 3:17 AMP

I believe that to be a fact that reveals the comparison between the life of the believer and the life of Jesus. If we were not through grace, saved into the kingdom, no matter how close to sinlessness we might believe ourselves

behaving, it would be insufficient to satisfy the claims of our Holy Father.

The Scripture following applies to all believers, though still fallen, save those who have been translated or resurrected into the Kingdom of Heaven.

[:"red"] "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

" [/] Matthew 7:11 KJV

Blessings!!

May 18, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Thank you for your committement to God's word, Norman and LC.

Let me encourage you to remain faithful in spite of the attacks of others. I also appreciate the references to overcoming, that is the way of Christ.

In Christ, the Movement can move!

gcw

Thank you for the encouraging note, Olger. It is not the avowed enemies of Christ who will be the most successful in their attacks against believers, but those who are wolves in sheep's clothing, biting and devouring when they believe themselves unnoticed. However God sees, and provides all the necessary help to preserve those whose intent is to lift up the Lord Jesus as capable of saving all who submit to His call.

[:"red"] "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." [/] Revelation 2:9 KJV

[:"red"] "And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends." [/] Zechariah 13:6 KJV

However these realities cause no sleepless nights when one recognizes the sovereignty of God.

[:"red"] "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?" [/] Romans 8:31

KJV

[:"red"] "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." [/] Gen 50:20 NASB

BTW That last scripture text is not meant to refer to any particular person, but only describes a principle.

Blessings!

May 18, 2006

Your post was written well....

Rob

May 18, 2006

May 18, 2006

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If we were not through grace, saved into the kingdom, no matter how close to sinlessness we might believe ourselves behaving, it would be insufficient to satisfy the claims of our Holy Father.

Bingo! Norman...listen up:

Daniel...a prophet of God, right? I bet that dude was righteous. Let's see:

-BC- DA
-TI- The Desire of Ages

-CN- 25

-CT- The Call by the Sea

-PR- 03

-PG- 246

It was the same presence of divine holiness that had caused the prophet Daniel to fall as one dead before the angel of God. He said, "My comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength." So when Isaiah beheld the glory of the Lord (i.e., His Holiness,goodness), he exclaimed, "Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts." Dan. 10:8; Isa. 6:5. [:"red"] Humanity, with its weakness and sin, was brought in contrast with the perfection of divinity, and he felt altogether deficient and unholy.[/]

-BC- SC

-TI- Steps to Christ

-CN- 3

-CT- Repentance

-PR- 02

-PG- 29

When the prophet Daniel beheld the glory (holiness) surrounding the heavenly messenger (angel) that was sent unto him, he was overwhelmed with a sense of his own weakness [:"red"]and imperfection.[/] Describing the effect of the wonderful scene, he says, "There remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength." Daniel 10:8. The soul thus touched will hate [:"red"]its selfishness, abhor its self-love,[/] and will seek, through Christ's righteousness, for the purity of heart that is in harmony with the law of God and the character of Christ."

-BC- TMK

-TI- That I May Know Him

-CN- 355

-CT- Robed in His Perfection

-PR- 05

-PG- 361

But we shall not boast of our holiness. As we have clearer views of Christ's spotless and infinite purity we shall feel as did Daniel when he beheld the glory of the Lord and said, "My comeliness was turned in me into corruption" (Dan. 10:8). We cannot say, "I am sinless" till this vile body is changed and fashioned like unto His glorious body. But if we constantly seek to follow Jesus (that’s the aim), the blessed hope is ours of standing before the throne of God without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing, complete in Christ, [:"red"]robed in His righteousness and perfection[/].

Nuff said,

Rob

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