Racist??

May 23, 2006

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There is no conflict with being a Christian and speaking of and identifying his/her ethnic origin.

"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." (Rom. 10:12)

No difference? oops... I guess Paul didn't notice they have different skin color. Too bad someone didn't streighten him out before the New Testament was formed.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal. 3:28)

Well there may not be Jew or Greek but there is BlackSDA. We can give Paul a break since the internet wasn't invented yet when he wrote that.

"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye." (1 Cor. 3:11-13)

There is neither Greek nor Jew???? "Put on therefore... bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering..." That doesn't exactly sound like "take pride in ethinic heritage, does it? It sounds more like, "climb down off your ethnic high horse and humble yourself in the sight of the Lord."

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." (1 Cor. 2:2)

Does "not to know any thing" include ethnicty?

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Its interesting that many white people I have spoken to have a problem with people calling describing themselves by their ethnic orgins.

I cannot speak for all white people but as for myself, I see it as a problem because I never describe myself by my ethnic orgins. I do not find my identity in the color of my skin. When I get to heaven God can make me chinese, african, eskimo, indian or green with purple hair. My identity is in Christ. "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

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By the way, quoting Walter Williams is like quoting Ralph Nader

I didn't think Ralph Nader was black.

May 23, 2006

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they choose for themselves.

The sad reality is that they don't choose for themselves. They get excluded. They can't join the black churches because they aren't black. Well the black churches may "let" them join but it is unlikely they would get a place in the choir or become an elder. They can't join the Filipino church. They can't join the hmong church. They just don't fit in... anywhere.

That is why EGW couselled against mixed marriages. However today most American whites are more enlighted and do not descriminate against those with mixed ethnic orgins.

May 23, 2006

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No difference? oops... I guess Paul didn't notice they have different skin color. Too bad someone didn't streighten him out before the New Testament was formed.

Shane I think you are doing a bit of isegesis (making scripture say what you want it to say) there. Paul is clearly talking about Salvation. You presented the text without its context to give yourself a pretext for what you wanted to say!

verse 11...Whosoever beliveth on him shall not be ashamed

Verse 13...Whosoever calleth upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Whosoever is the context....."there is no difference" It doesn't matter who are whosoever.....

IF we spend 30 seconds in the real world we understand that what you assert is not true. There are differences in the way people dress, eat, etc. In terms of being saved their is no difference.

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I cannot speak for all white people but as for myself, I see it as a problem because I never describe myself by my ethnic orgins.

Again Shane you perfectly present the issue. White people have never had to think about their ethnicity because they are generally are presented as the standard by whcih all things are judged. Your history and contribution as a white man is well documented discussed and appraised. No reflection on you place in the world is required!

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I didn't think Ralph Nader was black.

He's not.

May 23, 2006

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The sad reality is that they don't choose for themselves. They get excluded. They can't join the black churches because they aren't black. Well the black churches may "let" them join but it is unlikely they would get a place in the choir or become an elder. They can't join the Filipino church. They can't join the hmong church. They just don't fit in... anywhere.

Shane, I'm talking about what they call themselves and what they claim as their ethnic origin. They chose that for themselves. I am very surprised that you suggest that black churches would not let them join or hold positions. Thats contrary to my experience of black churches. Interestingly, I think the lighter you skin the more willing they are to accept you and to put you in a posiiotn of authority as long as you show you understand black people.

May 23, 2006

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which culture genuinely accepts them?........let me guess!....hmmmm The whole point is I don't put them in a box...they choose for themselves.

Yeah you're right it was sarcastic. Let me be more candid. When it comes to mixed marriages or children of mixed marriages I have found that, in general, the side of the family that is black, hispanic, asian is generally more acceting than the white side, for all kinds of reasons. Of course this is subjective, no doubt you will offer some exceptions.

Unsually, a child who is mixed parentage eg (black/white) is described as black even though he/she is mixed. A mixed child is almost always never described as white, almost always identified with the ethnicity of the non-white parent!

May 23, 2006

Shane--I'm genuinely curious about how your kids are perceived in your area. I have neices and nephew who are mixed (asian/caucasian) and they live in a city with a huge percentage of asian or asian/caucasian people and nobody gives them a second look (but if they moved to other cities, they might encounter the "second look" or worse). So I'm wondering in the area where you live, are your kids discriminated against because they are mixed? Or do you think they would in other parts of the country but they're okay where you live? I can't quite get a feel for what you're saying here. I can see places where they would possibly not be accepted, but I grew up with hispanic and hispanic/caucasian mixed kids and nobody paid that much attention to the ethnicity of the kids.

I think the point that someone made earlier is quite an important one, about culture. I think this discussion is much more dealing with culture as "race." (and to some extent language) Which is why we have Korean, Japanese, Spanish, Chinese, Filipino churches and church services--there are different cultural expectations for worship and community. I think this is similar for at least African-American congregations (what we noticed in SW MI was that the African-Americans tended to go to the Regional churches, while the African immigrants tended to come to our church for children's Sabbath school and then go to the African church for church service--rather convoluted, but it was meeting the needs that needed to be met). The African-American congregations meet a cultural need. I don't think that is a racist remark because I'm not really talking about race (any more than I'm talking about race when I talk about Japanese, Chinese, Korean, or Filipino). I have never been made to feel unwelcome at a "Black" church (rather the opposite), and I would have no opposition to attending one (except that we were tied to a 'white' church because of conference employment)--but I still see it as being cultural, not racial.

Granted, the forum in question IS called blacksda, not africanamericansda or whatever (and since I've never visited there, I don't know if it serves a wider group than "African Americans" or if the membership tends to be more specific--perhaps someone could enlighten me). So if it's rather limited to African Americans, perhaps it is mislabeled. Not a big deal in my mind, however.

M

May 23, 2006

Which is not to say that there aren't important considerations to be made for looking at "race." People the world over are "racist" against someone or another who is different looking. Will we ever truly understand each other? I doubt it. Will we ever be able to accept each other? Don't know.

M

May 23, 2006

BlackSDA exists because the owner is a black adventist and that's what he chose to call it. For whatever reason (more on this in a moment) here in the U.S. there are two adventist churches, one black and the other white..... it is our dirty little secret. It came into being in the 20s and 30s when the church begin to separate itself based on color. When the black pastors begin to ask for leadership positions within the white conferences, the solution was not to promote them, but tell them that new conferences would be formed all black in which they could hold leadership positions, that happened in the 40s and Regional Conferences were born. I don't see getting that horse back into that barn....

All that I have read in this thread is interesting, but it highlights how much some of us don't know about this issue...

Yes I am a black man, and I am not offended at being called black. I would be more offended if someone were to say to me that they don't see my color..... but, that's just me....

May 23, 2006

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I am very surprised that you suggest that black churches would not let them join or hold positions.

I use to attend a black church and I loved it. I cannot say enough good things about it. However I never say one white person preach once.

May 23, 2006

There was a comment as to where people would be accepted or what churches they would be accepted in.... I would venture to say that white people tend to be accepted without question in a predominately black sda church and will become a part of the fabric of that church. On the other hand I have observed that when the number of blacks surpasses some number (usually known by the white members) in a predominately white sda church, the white membership quietly finds somewhere else to go or may even form a new church to re-establish the status quo. One of my best friends a methodist minister shared that it happens with the methodists as well.... so I don't think its an adventist problem as much as it is a people problem...

May 23, 2006

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I am very surprised that you suggest that black churches would not let them join or hold positions.

I use to attend a black church and I loved it. I cannot say enough good things about it. However I never say one white person preach once.

<hr /></blockquote>If a white person is a member of that church they would probably be invited to preach... however it is a rare occurrence that a white person would be invited to speak....

May 23, 2006

BlackSDA is not limited to blacks. There are whites there also and probably other colors too but as yet I dont have two way moniter viewing, LOL. But you asked if they "serve" a wider group. I would suggest that BlackSDA was setup to serve the needs of the people of the title. Blacks who are SDA. Any SDA who identifies themselves with the black culture. And I don't mean people like eminem. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/icon_smile_sick.gif" alt="" />

May 23, 2006

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I would be more offended if someone were to say to me that they don't see my color..... but, that's just me....

More than once I have had to give a report as a witness and when asked what color the person was, I had to admit that I didn't notice. I guess I was just raised that color doesn't matter.

May 23, 2006

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I would be more offended if someone were to say to me that they don't see my color..... but, that's just me....

More than once I have had to give a report as a witness and when asked what color the person was, I had to admit that I didn't notice. I guess I was just raised that color doesn't matter.

<hr /></blockquote>Well.... it just may... an interesting read if you ever get the chance... "Race Matters" by Cornel West.....

May 23, 2006

I currently live in an area that is 87% hispanic. There are racial issues here but I think it has to do more with culture than race. Mexico is a country that is filled with corruption and Mexicans know this better than anyone else. As a result Mexicans tend to trust white people more than they trust other Mexicans.

This area was settled by German immirgrants. It was just a dry dusty area until they built the irrigation systems. Then Mexicans started to migrate to the area as labor was needed to work the fields. Mixed children have been around since the very beginning and are generally accepted by society here.

However children are mean and school presents problems for kids with crooked teeth, that are short, fat, stutter or a number of other reasons. Being of mixed race is also a reason that kids have trouble with other kids. Legally my kids are hispanic because of their mother and will qualify for such things as the Hispanic Scholarship Fund. Currently they both look white but they are young. Their skin and hair could both get darker by the time they are 16.

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White populations in most of the country are very accepting of mixed kids so I don't suspect we would have any problems with the white community if we moved. Since both my kids speak Spanish they could get by in the hispanic community although they may face selective racism.

May 23, 2006

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an interesting read if you ever get the chance... "Race Matters" by Cornel West.....

Is this book written from a Christian prespective?

May 23, 2006

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Yes I am a black man, and I am not offended at being called black. I would be more offended if someone were to say to me that they don't see my color..... but, that's just me....

I have a question in all honesty: What do you mean when you say you'd be offended if someone didn't see your color? What do you mean by "see your color"? (perhaps this is a stupid racist question, and I'm sorry if it is perceived as anything other than a genuine question) I've heard/read many people saying the same thing, and I don't understand what it means. How would I treat you if I were "seeing your color"? Or not "seeing your color"?

When I was interviewing for a job one time, as a first-year teacher, I was asked how I would treat minority students (meaning, in this context, the African-American majority of students at the school). I get the impression that no matter how I, a white woman, were to answer that question, it would be the wrong answer. Whatever answer I gave (this many years later, I don't remember what I said) met with the disapproval of the man who asked the question, who then commented that I appeared to be racist and unable to teach black children (needless to say, I did not get the job). Is there a right answer for this question?

M

May 23, 2006

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I have a question in all honesty: What do you mean when you say you'd be offended if someone didn't see your color? What do you mean by "see your color"? (perhaps this is a stupid racist question, and I'm sorry if it is perceived as anything other than a genuine question) I've heard/read many people saying the same thing, and I don't understand what it means. How would I treat you if I were "seeing your color"? Or not "seeing your color"?

When I was interviewing for a job one time, as a first-year teacher, I was asked how I would treat minority students (meaning, in this context, the African-American majority of students at the school). I get the impression that no matter how I, a white woman, were to answer that question, it would be the wrong answer. Whatever answer I gave (this many years later, I don't remember what I said) met with the disapproval of the man who asked the question, who then commented that I appeared to be racist and unable to teach black children (needless to say, I did not get the job). Is there a right answer for this question?

M

the color of my skin is a part of what makes me... me... thus to "not see it" suggests that you are choosing not to see a part of me.... there are differences among people, short, tall, big, small, male, female, old, young, and various colors... differences are not wrong, they are just different. So my thing is its okay that we have differences. Its not okay when an attempt is made to say because there are differences in people that makes those with the differences weird, strange, inferior, warped, etc.

As for the question about how would you treat minority students. The best answer would be that you would treat them with the belief that they can achieve anything that they want to achieve. That you will assist them with being the best they can be.... a not so good answer is, "I would treat them the same way I treat other students." Why is that a bad answer? Because we as humans don't treat everyone the same. We like to say we do, but we don't... the key is even if we don't treat everyone the same do we treat them fairly?

I have 2 kids. One boy, and one girl. They are not treated the same because they are 2 different, very different people. To treat them "the same" is to do them a disservice... however I do attempt to treat them fairly.... understand what I am saying?

May 23, 2006

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an interesting read if you ever get the chance... "Race Matters" by Cornel West.....

Is this book written from a Christian prespective?

the person who wrote it is a christian, an educator, and a thinker... so it is written from that perspective...

May 23, 2006

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