Racist??

May 26, 2006

My sons have observed that everyone is some shade of brown, and they assume that this is because Adam was made from dirt. They have hypothesized that if Adam had been made from water, we would all be shades of blue, and if he'd been made from grass, we would be shades of green.

M

May 26, 2006

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The act of classifying peoples colors into different races is being racist. I can't say that I am offended by someone calling me black, but it is annoying. I wish people wouldn't mention it. The only situation in when someones race should be mentioned is if you are looking for them for a crime.

Can I ask a question then? How are those of us who are not "black" or "african american" supposed to react? Some people that are "Black" or "African American" want us to notice their color as it is part of who they are. Others are offended if you "notice their color". I think this is an issue with any race. So how can a truely "non-prejudiced" person know how they should react or notice or not notice in every situation? I never want to be offensive and I want people to know I genuinly care about them.

In my opinion the color of a person's skin, shape of eyes, type of hair, language, gender, country of origin, ect has NOTHING to do with their value. I think people are valuable just because they are human. I simply don't "get" prejudice or racism. But then again, I grew up oversease and was surrounded by people of many races and I truely don't see any difference in their value. They are all people for whom Jesus died and must be treated with respect and love regardless of their size, color, race, language, gender, origins etc.

Just my 2 cents.

May 26, 2006

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In my opinion the color of a person's skin, shape of eyes, type of hair, language, gender, country of origin, ect has NOTHING to do with their value.

I agree 100% Yet even African Americans have bias against skin color. Dark is bad but light is good. Don't get mad at us for being confused since you can't get it together yourselves.

May 26, 2006

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In my opinion the color of a person's skin, shape of eyes, type of hair, language, gender, country of origin, ect has NOTHING to do with their value.

I agree 100% Yet even African Americans have bias against skin color. Dark is bad but light is good. Don't get mad at us for being confused since you can't get it together yourselves.

LOL, well first of all I am not african american but I would give anything to be darker as I don't like burning when going to the beach and darker skin is appealing to me.

May 26, 2006

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I agree 100% Yet even African Americans have bias against skin color. Dark is bad but light is good. Don't get mad at us for being confused since you can't get it together yourselves.

Interesting... and where pray tell do you think that perception came from? In other words what happened that black people would despise the color they are and desire to be lighter?

May 26, 2006

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I agree 100% Yet even African Americans have bias against skin color. Dark is bad but light is good. Don't get mad at us for being confused since you can't get it together yourselves.

Something for your consideration as we continue this discussion....

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Colorism, or the practice of placing value on color tones, is a direct result from slavery: the house Negro versus the field Negro, Meeks said, adding that the practice evolved from assimilation into white America. Blacks who worked in the slave owner's home frequently received better treatment than other slaves who toiled in the plantation fields. Often, slaves with lighter skin tone were a result of sexual relations or rape between the slave owner and his female slaves, whose offspring received education and special favors not available to other slaves. Crawford agrees: “No wonder an incredible number of us are still driven to `pass' for European and hide among them.”

Colorism has affected blacks in a variety of ways, from self-hatred to self-affirmation at the expense of other skin tones. The exact number of light-skinned blacks who shed their blackness to pass for white, is a guessing game, yet nonetheless a significant one. Crawford of Morehouse College wrote: “As of the year 1950, the defectors had soared to 12,000 per annum. By 1980 the yearly tally was 17,000. If the number held steady during the 1980s - conceivably it was greater - then during that decade alone, some 170,000 persons abandoned black identity and the black American community. Even a conservative estimate would place those who slipped away to pass for white in the 60 years from 1930 to 1990, at some 630,000.”

<hr /></blockquote>http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/race/2001/colorism_goetz.shtml

Now why would a black person attempt to or even consider passing for white? I have relatives not more than two generations ago "passed" for white and left their blackness behind..... so the question I pose is why do you think that is?

May 26, 2006

Obviously because it was better and safer to be white than black and that is dreadful! Racism is soooo ugly!! I grew up oversease, so I remember very distinctly a movie I saw as a young person which detailed the extreme prejudice that existed before Martin Luther King. (I am not saying it still exists but at least we don't have seperate bathrooms, buses, drinking fountains etc anymore.). I was shocked, sickened and couldn't believe that "my" country could have done something so incredibly racists so "recently". (And no I am not 20 years old at the moment. I just lived so much outside of the USA that I was rather blissfully ignorant.) I had seen racism in other countries against the "natives" or "indigenous people" and the educated upper class and that was sickening as well, but to think it was in my own "mother country" and was a part of "recent" history was and is appaling to me. (Seeing it in a movie was way more effective than reading about it in a history book.)

But I have a question for you. How are those of us, who truely love people of all races, supposed to treat an African American or black person? What is the best way? How do we talk, what should we say or not say? How can we help to heal the past?

May 26, 2006

Re: "How are those of us, who truely love people of all races, supposed to treat an African American or black person?"

As an individual. This includes not dumping them all into the same box. This means that if you want to know you ask. People are different. A group of African-Americans, will likely be different in some ways as individuals.

So, when I had a part in Black History Month, recently, where I work, I asked one of the women in charge, how I should state something that I was going to say. She told me.

May 26, 2006

Great response. Thanks!

May 27, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

The act of classifying peoples colors into different races is being racist. I can't say that I am offended by someone calling me black, but it is annoying. I wish people wouldn't mention it. The only situation in when someones race should be mentioned is if you are looking for them for a crime.

Can I ask a question then? How are those of us who are not "black" or "african american" supposed to react? Some people that are "Black" or "African American" want us to notice their color as it is part of who they are. Others are offended if you "notice their color". I think this is an issue with any race. So how can a truely "non-prejudiced" person know how they should react or notice or not notice in every situation? I never want to be offensive and I want people to know I genuinly care about them.

In my opinion the color of a person's skin, shape of eyes, type of hair, language, gender, country of origin, ect has NOTHING to do with their value. I think people are valuable just because they are human. I simply don't "get" prejudice or racism. But then again, I grew up oversease and was surrounded by people of many races and I truely don't see any difference in their value. They are all people for whom Jesus died and must be treated with respect and love regardless of their size, color, race, language, gender, origins etc.

Just my 2 cents.

Just don't lump every black person into one catagory, or even better anyone into a catagory. You have to take each person on an individual basis. And I can't say that I hve ever known or heard of someone getting upset for not mking a deal about the persons color.

I used to attend "black" churches, and racism was prevalant all over. My home church is pretty multicultural, we have people from all races here, but mostly white. When I would go back to my home church for a few weeks and visit the "black" churches, they would always ask me and my mother "why do you have to hang out with the white people, you need to stay with your own family.", which was pretty offensive and sad to me. And this attitude is in most churches that "cater: to certain races.

Initially having a "black" church was important, because black people couldn't even use certain restrooms at a certain time in history. But I know for a fact that many churche3s that have a certain demographic of people from one race are mostly there because they ar kind of ignorant. I think there should not be any confrence based on race, only language. If you speak Spanish, then of course you probably need to have a seperate church for people who speak Spanish. if you speak Tagalog, then of course you should have a seperate church for people who speek Tagalog. But having a confrence or church and labeling it African American something something is pretty racist and ignorant IMO. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/soapbox.gif" alt="" />

May 27, 2006

Well let's see here.. There are a lot of 'groups' because they were shunned by the whites. And let's admit the fact that white people have power over everything. Just look at our governments!

As long as people are being seperated they will seperate themselves. And this happens because of ignorance. Racial ignorance.

I would never step foot in an all white church, because I know it will have no culture. I like culture & I like mixes. That's how it should be. Not exclusively white, not exclusively black, etc..

May 27, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Well let's see here.. There are a lot of 'groups' because they were shunned by the whites. And let's admit the fact that white people have power over everything. Just look at our governments!

As long as people are being seperated they will seperate themselves. And this happens because of ignorance. Racial ignorance.

I would never step foot in an all white church, because I know it will have no culture. I like culture & I like mixes. That's how it should be. Not exclusively white, not exclusively black, etc..

That is pretty ignorant attutide right there, you do know that white people are not all the same? German, italian, russian, french canadian, Chezch, "spaniards". And then don't forget the whites that had immigrated to other countries. One of my best friends is from Hong Kong, his parents were missionaries and they had him over there. He knows a lot about Hong Kong, yet to the average person on the street, they would think of him as a regular white guy.

May 27, 2006

I guess you couldn't detect my sarcasm.

May 27, 2006

Hi Stan,

What nationality is Jesus now?

Whatever it is, that's what I am, I just happen to have a real nice permanent lightbrown tan that gets a little darker in the summer. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Norman

May 27, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Yeah, Gerry--ever hear the one about how all Chinese/Japanese/Filipinos/Koreans look alike? *groan* The stupidest statement in the world.

I think most Americans lump Asians together and leave it at that. Formerly guilty as charged. (sorry)

M

I heard that often enough that I couldn't resist turning the tables around when I had a chance. Many years ago while I was a medical resident, we were making rounds [interns, residents, and the attending doc] and we came to a patient who had been seen by one of the cardiology residents. There were two of cardiology residents, one was named Cislowski and the other Macheski. The patient couldn't tell who was who. I couldn't resist putting my dig in when I said, "Well, you know how it is, you can't tell one Pollack from another, they all look alike!"

Gerry

May 28, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

The stupidest statement in the world.

Formerly guilty as charged. (sorry)

M

Michelle, I think we all come down with that old "foot in mouth" disease on occasion. Your confession reveals your repentance. Maybe your post will (or maybe already has) start a trend among the body. A certain key to the kingdom.

[:"red"] "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." [/] Rev 3:19 KJV

[:"red"] "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness." [/] 2 Corinthians 12:9 KJV

Blessings!!

May 28, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

But how important is that anyway if I just treat each one with the love if Christ?

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/coolhello.gif" alt="" /> I'm for that. The rub comes in where the rubber meets the road, and we don't get our own way. So rather than admit

we don't have a valid reason for showing disdain, we revert to things like namecalling and ridicule. Seems like the "old man of sin" ain't dead yet. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/yucky.gif" alt="" />

[:"red"] "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." [/] Romans 5:8 NASB

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/1_prayer001.gif" alt="" /> Thank you, Father, for saving us despite our best efforts.

May 28, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

I would give anything to be darker as I don't like burning when going to the beach and darker skin is appealing to me.

It is my understanding that people with dark skins also burn in the sun. It is just not as visible. I'm open for correction.

May 28, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Obviously because it was better and safer to be white than black and that is dreadful! Racism is soooo ugly!! I grew up oversease, so I remember very distinctly a movie I saw as a young person which detailed the extreme prejudice that existed before Martin Luther King. (I am not saying it still exists but at least we don't have seperate bathrooms, buses, drinking fountains etc anymore.). I was shocked, sickened and couldn't believe that "my" country could have done something so incredibly racists so "recently". (And no I am not 20 years old at the moment. I just lived so much outside of the USA that I was rather blissfully ignorant.) I had seen racism in other countries against the "natives" or "indigenous people" and the educated upper class and that was sickening as well, but to think it was in my own "mother country" and was a part of "recent" history was and is appaling to me. (Seeing it in a movie was way more effective than reading about it in a history book.)

But I have a question for you. How are those of us, who truely love people of all races, supposed to treat an African American or black person? What is the best way? How do we talk, what should we say or not say? How can we help to heal the past?

It seems to me we're dealing with spiritual problems in a superficial way. I have a loved cat in my home that is loved better than some families of which I'm aware. And they are white versus white.

The answer to racism is to believe and practice that which Jesus asks of us.

[:"red"] "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren." [/] Matthew 23:8 KJV

May 28, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Great response. Thanks!

Sometimes that will satisfy. It becomes too simplistic, like just asking those who are Arab, how we can stop the fighting that has been waged against the "infidels" for the past 2-4,000 years.

[:"red"] "But earnestly desire the greater gifts. And I show you a still more excellent way."

Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.

It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].

It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.

Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].

Love never fails

[/] 1 Cor 12:31, 13:4-8

Blessings!!

May 28, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Yeah, Gerry--ever hear the one about how all Chinese/Japanese/Filipinos/Koreans look alike? *groan* The stupidest statement in the world.

I think most Americans lump Asians together and leave it at that. Formerly guilty as charged. (sorry)

M

I heard that often enough that I couldn't resist turning the tables around when I had a chance. Many years ago while I was a medical resident, we were making rounds [interns, residents, and the attending doc] and we came to a patient who had been seen by one of the cardiology residents. There were two of cardiology residents, one was named Cislowski and the other Macheski. The patient couldn't tell who was who. I couldn't resist putting my dig in when I said, "Well, you know how it is, you can't tell one Pollack from another, they all look alike!"

Gerry

Gerry--I have been told so often here in HK that "all white people look alike." I just laugh because I know where they're coming from. It's our big noses, you know (one of the Mandarin terms for foreigners is "da bi zi" which means big nose--my boys think it's hilarious and refer to their noses as "da bi zi"). <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Once I was sold the wrong guitar strings at the music shop because the guy thought I was a woman who had come in the previous day asking about a certain weight of strings--I didn't realize it until I got home and really thought about the exchange in the store--then I just laughed and chalked it up to experience.

M

May 28, 2006

Well, this thread is going a different way from how it started.... but all is good...

The local Church I joined, was primarily West Indian. Jamaican, Antiguan, Trinidadian etc

One thing I learned, in that community is that (my own words)

Black people, think white people talk about black people as much as black people talk about white people. Hows that for a general statement <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Perhaps that is not true over all, but that was my experience then.

I am white. I do not recall talking about black people, either good bad or indifferent, in my home, at school, with my friends or in my work place. Neither did we spend time talking 'about' Jewish people, gypsies, etc etc. I do recall some talk about Chinese for their work ethics and study habits, plus they were a great source for firecrackers, as they were illegal where we lived. Not sure now why we could get the firecrackers from them.

Why gypsies, jews, blacks, Inuit, first nations, etc etc seemed to have the impression that whites spend much time talking about them always made me wonder.

I have an adopted asian daughter. It really hit me one time when i went to try and find an asian doll for her when she was a child. Could not find one.

I had a friend from Church who had a child, I opened up My Bible Friends, and started reading to her, it hit me that none of the children in there were black. So I protested, and was in a position to do so, they re-did the books. This was about 20 years ago or so... now I am babbling sorry <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

May 28, 2006

They redid the books? I haven't seen an update. I know the redid the Bible Stories (or at least some of the pictures).

I appreciate that the series Great Stories for Kids features kids of all shapes and colors. Very normal and natural, IMO.

M

May 28, 2006

HMMM they redid some books, I thought it was my bible friends, this was 20 years ago or so. Could have been something else...

I do not mind getting old BUT I miss my memory a lot.

May 28, 2006

My Bible Friends use to be 10 volumes and they condensed them to 5 volumes. My mother had the 10 volume set and we have the 5 volume set. They have the same stories, the 5 volume set has twice as many per volume. Volume 2 has a picture of Jesus with children on the inside. One of the children is a black girl. Volume 5 has a picture of Jesus with children. The child He is carrying is asian and they is a black girl walking with Him with a black doll.

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