Two Second Comings?

[8thdaypriest]

Here is the scenario I think fulfills the prophecies:

The trumpet judgments come before the Glorious Return, and set the stage for Satan's counterfeit Second Coming where he claims to be the Messiah figure for every religion, and a magnificent alien returned for the atheist types.  He "will sit in the Temple of God, showing himself to be God". 

The forces serving Satan (as savior and Lord) try to wipe out those who have the seal of God, who warn people that he is not Christ come. 

When the last witness for the truth is silenced by death or imprisonment, that's when it's over.  Christ appears gloriously in the sky.  The righteous dead are resurrected, and together with the living are caught up to be with Christ.  Christ and the saved, go to be presented to the Father in Heaven.  The saved all stand on the sea of glass before HIS throne. 

The saved all remain in the Heaven for the process to prepare them for priesthood.  No one is fully ready to serve as a priest under Christ.  All need time for healing from their lifetime of experiences on earth.  All need a much greater understanding of the LORD and His way. 

I can't embrace the idea that some complete the sanctification process here on earth.  I do not believe that anyone will be "perfect" in character - a literal sense.  We are declared perfect because we are washed in the blood.  I can agree that one must be fully committed to Christ, which would mean that any "sins" committed after that full commitment would be sins of ignorance, or simple mistakes - not willful arrogant rebellious sins.   

In the prophetic TYPE, no priest could serve before "the 8th day" from the start of his consecration (Leviticus 8:33). 

"You shall not go outside the door of the tabernacle of meeting for seven days, until the days of your consecration are ended.  For seven days he shall consecrate you" (Lev 8:33).

"With the LORD a thousand years is as a day".  To serve during the 7th millennium (7th day), would not fit the prophetic types.    Heaven is "the true Tabernacle" and only priests could enter the Tabernacle, or those undergoing the consecration to become priests.  Future priests undergoing the consecration process had to remain within the Tabernacle.  If heaven is "the true Tabernacle" then the future priests would have to remain in Heaven until "the 8th day". 

In your scenario, the future priests could remain in Heaven for a literal 7 days, and come back to earth on the 8th literal day. 

All of the redeemed from this age (6000 years from creation) are the 144,000.  "They are without fault" because they have been washed in the blood of Christ.  They have the Father's name in their foreheads, because they are the sealed.  They are "virgins" because all record of their past sins has been erased.  They can now be the "bride" of Christ. 

I will continue in another post. 

[8thdaypriest]

Another reason why I believe "the eighth day" will be the 8th millennium:

In the TYPE, Aaron and his sons began their service as priests on the 8th day from the start of their consecration process.  On that same 8th day - the very first day of their service, Nadab and Abihu offered "strange fire" before the LORD.  They took their own censors, and offered "profane fire".  An act which the LORD had not commanded them to do.  

Leviticus 10:1 "Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. 2 So fire went out from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD."  (NKJ) 

Leviticus 10:4  "And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said to them, 'Come near, carry your brethren from before the sanctuary out of the camp.' 5 So they went near and carried them by their tunics out of the camp, as Moses had said." (NKJ)

If the bodies of Nadab and Abihu were "before the sanctuary" then they were NOT inside the Tabernacle.  They were in the courtyard, just in front of the entrance - between the laver and the entrance curtain.  The LORD consumed them in the courtyard, before they could enter His Tabernacle.   The men who "carried" the bodies out of the camp - by their tunics, could not have entered the Tabernacle itself.  They were not priests.  They would have been terrified of being consumed. 

Nadab and Abihu - the arrogant priests, were consumed on the 8th day.  Satan - also an arrogant priest, will be consumed at the 8th millennium.  He will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

The 250 rebellious wanna-be priests were also consumed in the courtyard before the LORD. 

Numbers 16:18 So every man took his censer, put fire in it, laid incense on it, and stood at the door of the tabernacle of meeting with Moses and Aaron. 19 And Korah gathered all the congregation against them at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. Then the glory of the LORD appeared to all the congregation.

Numbers 16:39 So Eleazar the priest took the bronze censers, which those who were burned up had presented, and they were hammered out as a covering on the altar, 40 to be a memorial to the children of Israel that no outsider, who is not a descendant of Aaron, should come near to offer incense before the LORD, that he might not become like Korah and his companions, just as the LORD had said to him through Moses. (NKJ)

Korah, Dathan and Abiram went down to the pit, on that same day.

[8thdaypriest]

I think I would need to take a white board or in some way list all the verses you site and arrange them to coincide with a scenario. 

I would list the events in your scenario, and the events in my scenario, and the events in the SDA scenario.  I would then put the printed out verses next to events I've listed in the three scenarios, to see if I could get all the verses to line up with a scenario. 

I'm a visual type, and I need to see it "fit". 

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Thanks Joe, for filling in more detail of the scenario. 

You didn't say where you think the LORD will put Satan and his angels, during the 7th millennium. 

I am of the opinion that satan and his angels will be in the "abyss" or Tartarus during the 7th Millennium - the same place Jesus went to preach to the imprisoned angels after His death as described in 1 Peter 3:19-20:

"After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built."

[JoeMo]

17 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I you know that I do not accept EGW books like most, Joe! You of all people know that! I have said over and over that her visions, is what I do believe.

Just to clarify - I do NOT totally reject EGW; nor do I reject her visions.  I do have trouble with her interpretations of some of those visions; although I do not fault her as she interpreted these visions though her own experiences and knowledge at the time - a time of great revival in a strongly anti Catholic culture (justifiable so). Things have changed in the past 150 - 175 years. IMHO, Catholics are not as "evil"as they were back then, or even 55 years ago. My biggest disagreement with her is applying the "day for year" principle to all eschatological prophecy.  That leads to disagreement about a lot of other things like 1844, the Investigative Judgement, and other things associated with the "day for year" thing and her general historical viewpoint of eschatology vs. the futurist view which I currently hold.

I do not totally accept things I read in others' books either.  Contrary to what you may think, I DO check things out in Scripture before I post them here.  I admit sometimes my reasoning may be faulty, but I believe that happens to all of us. I also believe there is strong scriptural support for other scenarios besides what I talk about. A good example is the whether or not God is a duality, a Trinity, or something else altogether.  Jesus will clear all confusion when He sets up His Kingdom.  My job here is believe who Jesus says He is and did what He said He did and will do what He promises to do; and to live up to His Family values to the best of my ability as guided and empowered by His Spirit.

I reserve the right to keep my mind open; and to change my views without notice contingent upon being presented with scriptural evidence contrary to my current views.  "Present Truth" is an ongoing revelation - EGW even says that.

[8thdaypriest]

Continuing with "my" scenario:

The 7 last plagues destroy the earth as we now know it.  Every living thing is destroyed - including all human beings left on earth after the redeemed are removed by Christ.  The earth is consumed by fire, and perhaps the surrounding atmosphere - maybe this solar system.  Our sun may go super-Nova, and begin to circle a black hole. 

Satan and his angels are left on what remains of the earth, where they are "imprisoned" for 1000 years.  Earth becomes "the uninhabited place".  The earth "rests" in desolation, for all the Sabbaths it did not rest during the 6000 years of Satan's domination. 

At the start of the 8th millennium, Jesus will heal and restore the earth (or a new earth) making a habitable place for humanity once again. 

The "rest of the dead" are resurrected.  Christ - with the saved (now having completed their priestly consecration) will return to earth.  His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which splits to become a plain.  Many of those resurrected as "the rest" will flee.   I believe that many Jewish/Israelite people will be included in "the rest".  They died without full understanding, and as such will be given the opportunity to receive and serve Christ as Messiah. 

Jesus, with the saved will rebuild and restore.  They will build houses.  They will plant vineyards.  People from "the nations" ("strangers") will work their fields.  They will build Ezekiel's Temple, and begin to educate "the rest of the dead" in the "ways of the LORD".  People from the nations will "go up to the House of the LORD" to learn His ways.  They will present - as their perfect offering, the death of Jesus. 

I believe the vision of Ezekiel, concerning animal sacrifices by Zadok priests at the future Temple, was a prophecy given in symbols.  The Zadok priests typified the redeemed priests, who stand with Christ.  The animal sacrifices symbolized the body and blood of Christ, presented as the "sacrifice" or "offering" in this future Temple.  The "stream" that became a "river" which brought back to life the earth, symbolized the Holy Spirit of God who will bring all things back to life.  I do believe Ezekiel's Temple will be an actual place - a Temple at a location on earth designated as Jerusalem.

One thing I can't quite put together:  If Jerusalem becomes a "plain", then how will it also be "the Mountain of the LORD" ?

All the people of "the nations" will be invited to come up for the Feast of Tabernacles (Zechariah Cpt 14).  The people of "the nations" either come up and "enter in" or refuse.  The Holy Spirit (symbolized as "rain") is withdrawn from those who refuse. (The high ceremony of The Feast of Tabernacles was a prayer for rain.)  Some will come.  Some will refuse.  Those who refuse are called "the family of Egypt" - a name used for the mixed multitude who came out of Egypt with the Children of Israel.  

Those who refused, are gathered by Satan into a vast army.  They come up to attack Jerusalem, in an attempt to overthrow Christ and His priesthood who have been ruling as "kings and priests" to govern "the nations". 

"Fire" will come down from heaven and consume them (Exodus 20).  Satan and his angels will be thrown into "the Lake of Fire".  

A memorial will be erected after the bones are gathered to a city named Hamon Gog.  This memorial will be a reminder of what sin has caused.  Sort of like the Holocaust Museum.  It's doubtful that many will visit that memorial very often.  But it will remain. 

Peace is forever restored. 

THEN will come the final Great White Throne Judgment.  This will be a review of the "books".  All the redeemed must come to agree with the LORD's judgment concerning "the lost".  Once all questions are answered, God's "memory" of the lost will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire, so those people can never be resurrected again.  The lost will "stand" before this judgment only in the sense of their record.  They will not be conscious.  They will be "dead".  There is no mention of a third resurrection. 

I think it possible that the memorial of Hamon Gog may also be vaporized and disappear after the Great White Throne Judgment. 

Then on into eternity. 

[JoeMo]

12 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I think it possible that the memorial of Hamon Gog may also be vaporized and disappear after the Great White Throne Judgment. 

Then on into eternity. 

Thanks, Rachel.  I understand your "scenario"; as you and I have diligently studied the same scriptures.  As far as I'm concerned, our "scenarios" are the same in most areas. As we have discussed previously, any differences we have revolve around where the 7th Millennium will be spent, and whether some of the events described take place in the 7th or 8th Millennium.  I definitely agree with the statement of yours that I quoted.  In the new heaven and earth, all memories of the previous age (hence all feelings of guilt, remorse, and "missing" or loved ones who are not in the Kingdom) will be wiped away as God wipes away all tears. 

It's so nice that you and I can calmly discuss our differences without offending or taking offense in one another!  Thanks for being open minded, understanding, and "curious", Rachel!

[stinsonmarri]

5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Just to clarify - I do NOT totally reject EGW; nor do I reject her visions.  I do have trouble with her interpretations of some of those visions; although I do not fault her as she interpreted these visions though her own experiences and knowledge at the time - a time of great revival in a strongly anti Catholic culture (justifiable so). Things have changed in the past 150 - 175 years. IMHO, Catholics are not as "evil"as they were back then, or even 55 years ago. My biggest disagreement with her is applying the "day for year" principle to all eschatological prophecy.  That leads to disagreement about a lot of other things like 1844, the Investigative Judgement, and other things associated with the "day for year" thing and her general historical viewpoint of eschatology vs. the futurist view which I currently hold.

I do not totally accept things I read in others' books either.  Contrary to what you may think, I DO check things out in Scripture before I post them here.  I admit sometimes my reasoning may be faulty, but I believe that happens to all of us. I also believe there is strong scriptural support for other scenarios besides what I talk about. A good example is the whether or not God is a duality, a Trinity, or something else altogether.  Jesus will clear all confusion when He sets up His Kingdom.  My job here is believe who Jesus says He is and did what He said He did and will do what He promises to do; and to live up to His Family values to the best of my ability as guided and empowered by His Spirit.

I reserve the right to keep my mind open; and to change my views without notice contingent upon being presented with scriptural evidence contrary to my current views.  "Present Truth" is an ongoing revelation - EGW even says that.

Joe: are you listening to what you saying. First, of all EGW is not the one that had the vision of the Investigated Judgment. Hiram Edson did and where the problem lies, that only EGW had visions. Joel and Acts said in the last days, sons and daughter older people will have dreams/vision or either understand prophecy. That is what prophesying is you can explain prophecies, it is one of the gifts of THE SPIRIT.

All visions are in the Bible already. The Investigated Judgment is in the Bible, John and Daniel saw it. Revelation Chapter 1-3 makes it very clear that John saw, THE MESSIAH administering first in THE HOLY PLACE. What is mention is the Candlesticks and in Chapter 8 the golden altar and golden censer with much incense. But, here is what it seen no one pays attention to is Chapter 4-5. A Door has been opened in Heaven! Then John see THE MOST HIGH sitting on the Throne! You see the 24 elders thrones round and about the throne. They have  on their heads golden crowns and they are clothed in white raiments. And before the throne there is a sea that have the appearance of crystal glass: and in the middle of YAHWEH'S Throne, all around the Throne, are four living creatures.These are the cherubims that Ezekiel already seen and described. These Cherubims says; "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY,  YAHWEH ELOHIYM ALMIGHTY. There is a rainbow over HIS Throne also that look like precious stones. Now, remember Daniel and Revelation is really the same book. Certain things are in Daniel and the rest is in Revelation. They both points to the end of time period spanning over several thousands of centuries on this earth. Daniel sees in Chapter 7 that thrones were set up or arrange and THE ANCIENT of DAY took HIS SEAT! Here also thousands, upon thousands of uncountable angels stood before HIM and the Judgment was set! This where we get understanding all over the world about setting up a courtroom for justice. Just like the saints will judge the wicked, the 24 elders is the jury for the righteous. Justice must be mete out with your own peers! There are witnesses in the courtroom also; Elijah, Moses, Enoch and the others that rose and returned with YAHSHUA! Now, Chapter 5 SOMEONE, has to be the righteous ADVOCATOR and John is relieve because, THE LAMB, takes the Book of Life out of HIS FATHER'S HAND! Chapter 6, 7 the horses starts with the Adam all the way to the remnants and the great multitude they will harvest during the Time of Trouble.

You know, it appears that you always accuse of saying of thinking things about you that I haven't done! Why is that? I have never said you don't check things out in Scripture. I just said to you about reading a lot of books and I gave you my reason. You have give me things I have accepted, now all of a sudden I cannot do the same? I will state it again, I have learned a lot from many of you on this forum.

Sister White did not come up with the 23 hundred day prophecy; William Miller, accepting the  Karaite Calendar did and then Samuel S. Snow gave the 7 month. This was the accepted by the Millerite Movement that both Hiram Edson and EGW were  members. That is true you preserve the right all individuals do, including me. If you do not want to believe the 23 hundred day prophecy ok, your choice! But EGW was not the only person who had vision and she will not be the last before YAHSHUA comes! Others will also continue to prophesy as well. I believe that EGW live up to all that she knew and understood. Did she believe in error, yes, but not her visions. They came out of the Bible! The Investigated Judgment came out of the Bible and I believe it started Oct. 22, 1844 base on the 23 hundred day prophecy; which is also from the Bible! That's it!

Happy Sabbath!

[JoeMo]

16 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

Happy Sabbath!

Happy Sabbath to you, too. Thanks for sharing your scenario with us.

[JoeMo]

Hi Rachel,

In the OP, I separated lists of scripture into those that spoke of Christ's return to earth only after an explicit sequence of precedent events occur, and a list that spoke of His return as a surprise - when we least expect it.  Which of these returns do you see as as the "scheduled" event; and which one is the surprise?

[8thdaypriest]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Hi Rachel,

In the OP, I separated lists of scripture into those that spoke of Christ's return to earth only after an explicit sequence of precedent events occur, and a list that spoke of His return as a surprise - when we least expect it.  Which of these returns do you see as as the "scheduled" event; and which one is the surprise?

I believe, as I think you do also, that the 7 LAST great plagues are "poured out" on the day that Christ returns in glory, just after He has removed His own people from this earth.  So those last plagues would not alert the people of earth to the coming event.  They are not "poured out" until the event actually happens - the Glorious Return. 

The Trumpet judgments will happen before His glorious appearing.  One of those Trumpet judgments involves the release of the "four angels" holding back the winds at the River Euphrates.  OK.  But would a war in the Middle East really surprise anyone?  Not likely.  Everyone is rather expecting it.    Yes the devastation would be horrendous, but the nations would "come together" to clean things up. 

Shortly after this Satan (or a being he is channeling) makes his appearance in the rebuilt Temple on the Mount, just at the end of the Trumpet judgments.  And all the world then serves him.  He has a rescue plan for the world.  Yes - his appearance WOULD surprise everyone.  But then they would settle back into comfort, believing that Messiah had come and peace would now reign for 1000 years.  Just as they thought things were all good (they finally shut the Two Witnesses up 3.5 days ago)  suddenly the real Christ shows up. 

Everyone is taken by surprise  (except anyone with the seal of God, still left alive at this point).    

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Joe,  I really don't know how much time will pass between the complete destruction of this planet (the nations have a combined nuclear arsenal large enough to blow the entire planet into a nuclear winter), and the recreation/restoration of this planet. 

I believe "the heavens" (at a minimum the atmosphere surrounding this planet and perhaps this single star system) will be destroyed, because we will soon have nuclear armed satellites orbiting.  When the weapons on those satellites are fired (at each other - or possibly at the alien army approaching earth (Christ with his angels),  it would cause a massive shock wave throughout this solar system  (our sun and planets orbiting). 

The time between destruction and restoration could be as short as one week.  After all - the original creation took only 7 literal days.  He spoke and it was done. 

The "saved" could (it's possible) spend the 7th millennium on this earth after Christ heals and restores it (makes it "new). 

But that would require "the abyss" ("the bottomless pit" - the "without form and void") to be something/somewhere other than this burned out earth.  Which I think IS possible.  It's just that Jeremiah described "the earth" as "without form and void". 

It's possible the LORD has already created a parallel dimension - just for the wicked angels, where those spirit beings can be imprisoned.  Rev Cpt 9: 1-12 describes a "star fallen from heaven" opening the "bottomless pit" to release "locusts" who wreck havoc on the earth.  The "king" over these locusts, is "the angel of the bottom less pit" whose name is Destroyer. 

This might just describe a point where Satan and his demons are no longer restrained by God's angels.  OR the bottomless pit may be an actual place or dimension of restraint for rebellious spirit beings. 

It would be justice if Satan's angels could see the saints restoring the ruins on the earth brought back to life, but could not in any way hinder them or interact with them.  They could only watch from their dimension of restraint.  I like THAT picture. 

[stinsonmarri]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:04 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

Here is the scenario I think fulfills the prophecies:

The trumpet judgments come before the Glorious Return, and set the stage for Satan's counterfeit Second Coming where he claims to be the Messiah figure for every religion, and a magnificent alien returned for the atheist types.  He "will sit in the Temple of God, showing himself to be God". 

The forces serving Satan (as savior and Lord) try to wipe out those who have the seal of God, who warn people that he is not Christ come. 

When the last witness for the truth is silenced by death or imprisonment, that's when it's over.  Christ appears gloriously in the sky.  The righteous dead are resurrected, and together with the living are caught up to be with Christ.  Christ and the saved, go to be presented to the Father in Heaven.  The saved all stand on the sea of glass before HIS throne. 

The saved all remain in the Heaven for the process to prepare them for priesthood.  No one is fully ready to serve as a priest under Christ.  All need time for healing from their lifetime of experiences on earth.  All need a much greater understanding of the LORD and His way. 

I can't embrace the idea that some complete the sanctification process here on earth.  I do not believe that anyone will be "perfect" in character - a literal sense.  We are declared perfect because we are washed in the blood.  I can agree that one must be fully committed to Christ, which would mean that any "sins" committed after that full commitment would be sins of ignorance, or simple mistakes - not willful arrogant rebellious sins.   

In the prophetic TYPE, no priest could serve before "the 8th day" from the start of his consecration (Leviticus 8:33). 

"You shall not go outside the door of the tabernacle of meeting for seven days, until the days of your consecration are ended.  For seven days he shall consecrate you" (Lev 8:33).

"With the LORD a thousand years is as a day".  To serve during the 7th millennium (7th day), would not fit the prophetic types.    Heaven is "the true Tabernacle" and only priests could enter the Tabernacle, or those undergoing the consecration to become priests.  Future priests undergoing the consecration process had to remain within the Tabernacle.  If heaven is "the true Tabernacle" then the future priests would have to remain in Heaven until "the 8th day". 

In your scenario, the future priests could remain in Heaven for a literal 7 days, and come back to earth on the 8th literal day. 

All of the redeemed from this age (6000 years from creation) are the 144,000.  "They are without fault" because they have been washed in the blood of Christ.  They have the Father's name in their foreheads, because they are the sealed.  They are "virgins" because all record of their past sins has been erased.  They can now be the "bride" of Christ. 

I will continue in another post. 

Rachel; You stated; "Satan's counterfeit Second Coming where he claims to be the Messiah figure for every religion, and a magnificent alien returned for the atheist types.  He "will sit in the Temple of God, showing himself to be God". Now, that came out of EGW's book; the Great Controversy. 

As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will impersonate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Savior's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. GC, pp. 624

Now, I know that mainstream SDA believes the above. However, the Bible does not state Satan to impersonate THE MESSIAH at all! You never gave a Scripture because there is none! The Bible says this:

 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Messiah , or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Messiahs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mat 24:21, 23, 24

I will also kindly state that the Bible never said that Satan would sit in the Temple. He is not the son of perdition.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in THY NAME: those that THOU gavest ME I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:1

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2Th 2:3

 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. Rev 17:8, 11

 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Rev 19:20

The Beast is the son of perdition, who is a man that was first, cast into the Lake of Fire. The many false messiahs will appear during the Time of Trouble, according to the Scriptures.

Rachel you stated "The forces serving Satan (as savior and Lord) try to wipe out those who have the seal of God, who warn people that he is not Christ come." Again, you give no Scriptures! I have taken a stand against the mainstream SDA who also believe this scenario. For some reason, they feel that the Time of Trouble is to harm or torture the saints! They believe this because many in the past, many faithful ones, had to go through trials. Many even lost their lives. But, this time is so different!

First, the 144,000 will be sealed before the Time of Trouble. In the Six Chapter of Revelation Verses 14-17, an event is taken place. Everything is out of place both the mountains and the islands. The wicked are telling the rocks and the mountains to fall on them and to hide them. They are actually asking the rocks and mountains to killed them, so they can hid being dead. What we all should say is wow! Why on earth would they do that? Well the Bible tells you, so they can hid from THE WRATH of THE LAMB and THE FACE of HIM that sitteth on the Throne in Heaven. No one discusses these important verses! Then the very next Chapter we see an angel coming from the east, having the seal of THE LIVING ELOHIYM saying to the four angels who duties are to hold back the wind of strive! Now, if this angel has the seal of THE LIVING ELOHIYM, how on earth can that be the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a day and the angels has a seal. Many of you believe in a Trinity, I believe in THREE INDIVIDUAL BEINGS and this angel has the seal! Now, the Bible makes it very clear that THE HOLY SPIRIT, is THE ELAH, that does the sealing. But, let's not forget Chapter Six and Verses 14-17. The Time of Trouble was about to happen and the angel from the east, stopped the four angels because the 144,000 all of them had to be sealed first. Why was this so important?

Because it appears no one seems to notice that The Time of Trouble is THE WRATH of THE LAMB! Do you think that THE LAMB is going to bring HIS WRATH on the righteous? Well the Bible say no! Daniel Chapter 12 clearly states, Michael is standing for HIS people and to deliver them. If HE is standing for HIS people, why would HE bring up some people for everlasting life? I can see HIM bringing up the one for everlasting contempt because as the mainstream think, the poor righteous people are going to be tried. They will be tortured! Why would they be if they are seal? What would they have to prove being faithful? They are no longer sinners, they are SEALED! Now, the very next Verse let's you know they are in power and also Rev 11:3-6. They will reap the Harvest of souls. That is why I observe the Holy Convocation, "of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours." also called Tabernacle. Ex 23:16; Lev 23:34-36 

The reason is both the 144,000 and the great multitude will do just like Elijah at the right time. They will scatter!

And I heard THE MAN clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when HE held up HIS RIGHT HAND and HIS LEFT HAND unto Heaven, and sware by HIM that LIVETH FOR EVER that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when HE shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Dan 12:7

When, YAHSHUA'S people are scattered The Time of Trouble will have ended and probation (the one hour), this time is without an intercession. YAHSHUA will take care of HIS people because the next and final WRATH comes from THE MOST HIGH! They are the Seven last plagues and just like Elijah, the saints will be safe from harm, like living in the wilderness! 

Rachel; you are correct, the 144,000 will be Priest and Kings and I pray to be a part of that number to also stand before THE FATHER! Having a harp singing the victory song of finishing and gathering in the harvest of souls during the Time of Trouble! ALLELUYAH!

PRAISE YAH!

[JoeMo]

Marrian,

I don't agree with every detail in your post, but I do appreciate your thoughts on this.  Thank you!

[stinsonmarri]

26 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

Marrian,

I don't agree with every detail in your post, but I do appreciate your thoughts on this.  Thank you!

Thank you Joe, I appreciate your comment. But, I would like to hear the detail that you don't agree with. If you don't mind can you provide Scriptures along with your disagreement. The reason is, we should base it on the Bible, agreed? I hope to hear from you soon and again, thanks! It makes me feel humble and happy, when all can discuss things, by working together in love! I know Heaven is please as well! I hope you had a happy Thanksgiving!

Blessings!

[JoeMo]

3 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Thank you Joe, I appreciate your comment. But, I would like to hear the detail that you don't agree with.

What I don't agree with doesn't really matter; it's not doctrinal nor convincingly eschatologically  correct. IMHO, any details on the timing, order, or locations of last-day events are speculative at best. Talk to any 3 people and you will get 4 or 5 opinions on the details of last-day events. We will understand last-day events as we see them unfold before us - probably in retrospect.  I have my opinions; and frequently state them with excessive conviction.  I am a student at best; not a theologian - not that it matters.  I have yet to read any theologian (outside of the Bible Writers) with whom I agree 100%.  By default, I unconditionally accept what I read in the Bible; even though there are parts of it that I don't completely (or accurately) understand. On top of that, the "understanding" I have evolves over time - sometimes through my own study guided by the Spirit, and sometimes through people on this forum whose spirit speaks to mine. I have always tried to stand firm in what I believe; but what I believe today is not the same as what I believed 10 years ago.

Does this make sense or am I rambling here?

[stinsonmarri]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:47 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

Another reason why I believe "the eighth day" will be the 8th millennium:

In the TYPE, Aaron and his sons began their service as priests on the 8th day from the start of their consecration process.  On that same 8th day - the very first day of their service, Nadab and Abihu offered "strange fire" before the LORD.  They took their own censors, and offered "profane fire".  An act which the LORD had not commanded them to do.  

Leviticus 10:1 "Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them. 2 So fire went out from the LORD and devoured them, and they died before the LORD."  (NKJ) 

Leviticus 10:4  "And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said to them, 'Come near, carry your brethren from before the sanctuary out of the camp.' 5 So they went near and carried them by their tunics out of the camp, as Moses had said." (NKJ)

If the bodies of Nadab and Abihu were "before the sanctuary" then they were NOT inside the Tabernacle.  They were in the courtyard, just in front of the entrance - between the laver and the entrance curtain.  The LORD consumed them in the courtyard, before they could enter His Tabernacle.   The men who "carried" the bodies out of the camp - by their tunics, could not have entered the Tabernacle itself.  They were not priests.  They would have been terrified of being consumed. 

Nadab and Abihu - the arrogant priests, were consumed on the 8th day.  Satan - also an arrogant priest, will be consumed at the 8th millennium.  He will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

The 250 rebellious wanna-be priests were also consumed in the courtyard before the LORD. 

Numbers 16:18 So every man took his censer, put fire in it, laid incense on it, and stood at the door of the tabernacle of meeting with Moses and Aaron. 19 And Korah gathered all the congregation against them at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. Then the glory of the LORD appeared to all the congregation.

Numbers 16:39 So Eleazar the priest took the bronze censers, which those who were burned up had presented, and they were hammered out as a covering on the altar, 40 to be a memorial to the children of Israel that no outsider, who is not a descendant of Aaron, should come near to offer incense before the LORD, that he might not become like Korah and his companions, just as the LORD had said to him through Moses. (NKJ)

Korah, Dathan and Abiram went down to the pit, on that same day.

Rachel: Thank you for presenting this story. I always thought that they had went inside the Sanctuary, but they didn't. They were outside the courtyard. I never took the time to realize that it were Aaron's uncles that removed the bodies also. However, Rachel you said that Abihu and Nadad did this on the eighth day and Chapter 10 does not state this at all.

Let's start with Chapter 8,  Aaron and his two older sons had to be concentrated for seven days.

And ye shall not go out of the door of the Tabernacle of the congregation in seven days, until the days of your consecration be at an end: for seven days shall he consecrate you. Lev 8:33

These are the names of the sons of Aaron, the priests which were anointed, whom he consecrated to minister in the priest's office. Num 3:3  

So, before they could do any work for the people they had to have an offering done for them first, and had to be consecrated to do the priestly work, they were ordained to do. The very next day, was the eighth day for them to start their priestly work for the congregation. They did and it was complete!

And there came a fire out from before YAHWEH, and consumed upon the altar the burnt offering and the fat: which when all the people saw, they shouted, and fell on their faces. Lev 9:24

When Aaron's two older sons did what they did was not on the above eighth day. It just showed that they were now doing their daily services. It appears also that they had been drinking strong drinks as well because YAHWEH emphasized again about this being unholy. Aaron was instructed to continue to teach the Statutes to the Children of IsraEL that was given to Moses. 

Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a Statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; and that ye may teach the children of IsraEL all the Statutes which YAHWEH hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.Lev 10:9-11

We need to understand what was the strange fire or the Fire that Aaron's two older sons should have used! There is also something of great importance why they died so quickly and immediately. If you read Lev 9:24, Fire came down from Heaven and burned up the consecrated offering, as an acceptance,  that Aaron and his two elder sons were about to commit to! This Fire was to kept in the middle of the burnt altar, and always to be used for the priestly services before YAHWEH.

 The Fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out. Lev 6:13

This Fire is a consuming Fire, it is the Everlasting Fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and the other five cities surrounding them. This Eternal Fire consumes  all things so, it will never exist again. That's why nothing lives in the Dead Sea and this is why is became its name. Nothing lives around that sea, I know I have been there! This is extremely important, when YAHWEH uses HIS Consuming Fire, it or they are gone forever! This is the same Fire that came down, with Abel and when Solomon's Temple and priest were dedicated. You were right, Korah, Dathan and Abiram went down to the pit, on that same day, they were spared eternal death because of Moses. However, two hundred and fifty men that offered incense were consumed by Eternal Fire that day. This is the Fire that consumed Elijah's offering, the altar, the wood and the water! It is the Everlasting Fire that will be used to consume the beast and the false prophet. It will finally be used to consume Satan, his angels, the wicked and this earth; to make an earth made new!

Nadad and Abihu use earthly fire and why this was so awful before YAHWEH. I tell you why, they met HIS SON in HIS SPIRITUAL FORM, just like Abraham. They met HIM and did not die with Moses, Joshua, Aaron and seventy of the elders! They all ate with HIM to know that they stand and lived before YAHSHUA and saw something special. Even Abraham did not see this GLORIOUS MANIFESTATION!

Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw THE ELOHIYM of IsraEL: and there was under HIS FEET as it were a Paved Work of a Sapphire Stone, and as it were the Body of Heaven in HIS CLEARNESS.  And upon the nobles of the children of Israel HE laid not HIS HAND: also they saw ELOHIYM , and did eat and drink. Ex 24:9-11  

Writing it the  way the Afrikan language that the Hebrews spoke in ancient times, it would state it more clearly. It would clearly say one of THE ELOHIYM! I understand it, not because I am a rocket scientist, or a know it all. It is because of the class I took in Linguistic and living there in Israel; I was able of understanding the Yiddish mixed in with the Hebrew. Yiddish is partly German, our English language is a dialect of German. It is a little more detail then what I am stating!

In conclusion: Thanks Rachel for your insight! You are also right about the eighth millennium, when YAHSHUA returns with the saints. It, called the octave week, that is the only Holy Convocation called the week of Harvest and the Tabernacle. The first and the twenty second are Holy Days which does point to the eighth millennium. I hope that I presented some more truth to your wonderful story!

Blessings and Happy Sabbath!

[stinsonmarri]

4 hours ago, JoeMo said:

What I don't agree with doesn't really matter; it's not doctrinal nor convincingly eschatologically  correct. IMHO, any details on the timing, order, or locations of last-day events are speculative at best. Talk to any 3 people and you will get 4 or 5 opinions on the details of last-day events. We will understand last-day events as we see them unfold before us - probably in retrospect.  I have my opinions; and frequently state them with excessive conviction.  I am a student at best; not a theologian - not that it matters.  I have yet to read any theologian (outside of the Bible Writers) with whom I agree 100%.  By default, I unconditionally accept what I read in the Bible; even though there are parts of it that I don't completely (or accurately) understand. On top of that, the "understanding" I have evolves over time - sometimes through my own study guided by the Spirit, and sometimes through people on this forum whose spirit speaks to mine. I have always tried to stand firm in what I believe; but what I believe today is not the same as what I believed 10 years ago.

Does this make sense or am I rambling here?

Joe: I cannot say you are rambling, to me you are expressing how you feel. Which is a good thing! All I can say to you is Scriptures speak for themselves. Let's try to explain, hopefully with the guidance of THE HOLY SPIRIT!

If you are angry full of wrath, so that you are about to let something happen! But, something is not complete yet so you send a message quickly to stop the event. The event is stopped and then finally the completion is done. Now you can begin you wrath or whatever should happen, happens!

Then, what is needed to know, who are you angry with, to bring the events on! Now, your true friends have being doing all the work and have completed it. It has your sealed stamped on it, and it is beautiful! So, I ask you, would you be angry with them? Now, the so call friends, always telling you how much they love you and need you. They tell you, they would do anything for you, just ask them. Well, you did have something for them to do, and they half did it , and then did not do it right! It fell down and they did not care to finish it either. But your true friends, did complete it who did not do all the praising. So, I ask you, who will you bring down your wrath on? You tell me!

Happy Sabbath!

Edited November 30, 2019 by stinsonmarri
correction

[BlessedMan]

On 11/28/2019 at 5:07 PM, stinsonmarri said:

Now, I know that mainstream SDA believes the above. However, the Bible does not state Satan to impersonate THE MESSIAH at all! You never gave a Scripture because there is none! The Bible says this:

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (2 Cor 11:13-14, KJV)

Satan came as an angel of light in the wilderness of temptation to deceive Christ; and he does not come to man in a hideous form, as he is sometimes represented, but as an angel of light. He will come personating Jesus Christ, working mighty miracles; and men will fall down and worship him as Jesus Christ. We shall be commanded to worship this being, whom the world will glorify as Christ. What shall we do?--Tell them that Christ has warned us against just such a foe, who is man's worst enemy, yet who claims to be God; and that when Christ shall make His appearance, it will be with power and great glory, accompanied by ten thousand times ten thousand angels and thousands of thousands; and that when He shall come, we shall know His voice (RH Dec. 18, 1888).  {6BC 1105.11}

[BlessedMan]

On 11/22/2019 at 10:47 AM, 8thdaypriest said:

Another reason why I believe "the eighth day" will be the 8th millennium

I dont see the phrase "8th Millenium" anywhere in Scripture. Not there.

[BlessedMan]

On 11/16/2019 at 4:22 PM, JoeMo said:

In looking at scripture, I have been confounded at times about what looked like discrepancies in the details of events surrounding the second coming . Please be patient with me while I list a large number of scripture references:

Group1: Dan. 2:44-45; Dan.7:9-14;Dan 12:1-3; Zech.14:1-5,Matt. 13:41; Matt. 24:15-31;,Matt. 26:64; Mark13:14-27;Mark 14:62; Luke 21:25-28; Act1:9-11; Acts 3:19-21; 1Thess. 3:13; 2Thess.1:6-10; 2Thess.2:8; 2 Peter 3:1-14; Jude 14-15; Rev. 1:7; Rev. 19:11-20:6; Rev. 22:7, 12, and 20

Group2: John 14:1-3; 1 Cor.15:1-53; 1Thess. 4:13-18; Rom.8:19; 1Cor.1:7-8; 1Cor.16:66; Phil.3:20-21; Col.3:4; 1Thess. 1:10; 1Thess.2:19; 1Thess.5:9 and 23; 2Thess. 2:1 and 3;1Tim.3:16; 2Tim4:1; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 9:28;James 5:7-9; 1Pet.1:7 and 13; 1John 2:28-3:2; Jude 21; Rev. 2:25; Rev.3:10.

IMO it makes no sense to collate two sets of verses like this, and subvert them to two separate ideologies. Where is the scripture telling us to even do that. At a later time I will comment in more detail; but IMO, there is only ONE doctrine of the second coming, not two. And this is just for starters.

[stinsonmarri]

4 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (2 Cor 11:13-14, KJV)

Satan came as an angel of light in the wilderness of temptation to deceive Christ; and he does not come to man in a hideous form, as he is sometimes represented, but as an angel of light. He will come personating Jesus Christ, working mighty miracles; and men will fall down and worship him as Jesus Christ. We shall be commanded to worship this being, whom the world will glorify as Christ. What shall we do?--Tell them that Christ has warned us against just such a foe, who is man's worst enemy, yet who claims to be God; and that when Christ shall make His appearance, it will be with power and great glory, accompanied by ten thousand times ten thousand angels and thousands of thousands; and that when He shall come, we shall know His voice (RH Dec. 18, 1888).  {6BC 1105.11}

Blessed Man: I grew up on that quote. Changing to angel of light is not THE MESSIAH! He also changed himself, trying to get back into Heaven in the book of Job! But he did not get in, he was stop by THE SON at the Gate! Transforming to apostles does not mean the MESSIAH! If Paul had said all of that, it would have been very simple to say Satan would comes as THE MESSIAH, but he didn't. YAHSHUA, HIMSELF in Matt Chapter 24 would most definitely make the statement, and HE didn't!

The first reason, HE CANNOT IMPERSONATE NONE OF THREE ALMIGHTIES! THEY are his CREATORS. It cannot be done! Satan wants to be like THE MOST but he can't! He does not have the power, the glory and the manifestation! The second reason is the secret things belongs to YAHWEH and HE SAID do not add or subtract from HIS WORD! There is a different from a mighty being and THE ALMIGHTIES BEINGS! One was created THE OTHER THREE were not! There is only so much Satan can do! Only he was allowed in the Garden of Eden. It has been misrepresented that MICHAEL kicked Satan and his angels down here on earth. That is totally impossible! Why? The world was perfect when it was created. The Greek word, "ge," means soil or planet that has land mass. Heaven is a huge land mass, it is not a floating cloud. It has mansions, trees, flowers, animals, the New Jerusalem, and so much more! The people of the middle ages thought the earth was the center of the universe. The scholars, who translated the Bible, apparently did not pay Hebrew 1:1-3 any attention. Because it clearly said that YAHSHUA created the worlds. Nor, did they understand John 1:1-3; ALL THINGS were made by HIM!

EGW said she was fallible and YAHWEH IS INFALLIBLE! She never said I saw, she thought this view. But in TM p. 105, she warned not to hold to thing that at one time seem correct. She said, when you find that it is an error, stand for the truth. EGW or no one is above the Bible and she has said over and over to take the Bible. No trinity, HOLY SPIRIT is not a ghost, angels did not mate with flesh beings. They are spirit beings and we are flesh being: water and oil does not mix! Satan is not created like THE ALMIGHTIES, we are! There are somethings impossible for him to do, but nothing is impossible for THE FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT!

My point is very clear, if the Bible does not state it then I will not accept it. That's me! I follow exactly the Bible principles. Somewhere in either the Old or the New Testament, it would declare that Satan would try to impersonate HIS CREATOR! I have not read it, YAHSHUA did not SPEAK it, so I cannot believe It. I know and understand the true POWERS of THE ALMIGHTIES and created being cannot match THEIR POWERS!

Blessings and Happy Sabbath!

Edited November 30, 2019 by stinsonmarri
correction

[stinsonmarri]

4 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

I dont see the phrase "8th Millenium" anywhere in Scripture. Not there.

It is there, Satan will be in prison for a thousand years. The saints will be judging the wicked. 

The word millenium is actually not found in the Bible. But here is the definition:

Millenium: A millennium is a period of one thousand years. It is similar to the terms biennium, a period of two years, and century , a period of one hundred years. The term derives from the Latin mille , meaning thousand, and annum , meaning year. WhatIs.com 

Blessings!

[BlessedMan]

38 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

It is there, Satan will be in prison for a thousand years.

where does it say "8th Millenium?"

[BlessedMan]

1 hour ago, stinsonmarri said:

Blessed Man: I grew up on that quote. Changing to angel of light is not THE MESSIAH! He also changed himself, trying to get back into Heaven in the book of Job!

the text is pretty clear, insofar as WHO is doing what:

Quote

And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

If the Bible says it, then we cannot argue about it. And, I dont know of any text that says  Satan changed himself to get into heaven. Which verse says that in Job?

Of course, there is no Messiah, insofar as the "angel of light," but thats the whole point. The reason there is no such thing as a counterfeit three dollar bill, is because there is no such thing as a real three dollar bill. It can only be a counterfeit, if there is the genuine! The text is clear, Satan impersonates Christ, and many people are fooled by this counterfeit. But Satan does present as the counterfeit. The manner of the 2nd coming tells us that there is a way to know the genuine, and in fact, that's why the counterfeit is needed, in Bible prophecy.