Two Second Comings?

[BlessedMan]

Genesis 6:2
(ABP+)  [5were beholdingG1492 1AndG1161 2theG3588 3sonsG5207 G3588 4of God]G2316 theG3588 daughtersG2364 ofG3588 men,G444 thatG3754 they are good,G2570 G1510.2.6 that they tookG2983 to themselvesG1438 womenG1135 fromG575 allG3956 of whomG3739 they chose.G1586

(AKJV)  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

(AKJV+)  That the sonsH1121 of GodH430 sawH7200 (H853) the daughtersH1323 of menH120 thatH3588 theyH2007 were fair;H2896 and they tookH3947 them wivesH802 of allH4480 H3605 whichH834 they chose.H977

(ASV)  that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose.

(BBE)  The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took wives for themselves from those who were pleasing to them.

(Brenton)  And it came to pass when men began to be numerous upon the earth, and daughters were born to them,

(CEV)  (SEE 6:1)

(CJB)  the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were attractive; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.

(Darby)  that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair, and took themselves wives of all that they chose.

(DRB)  The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all which they chose.

(ESV)  the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.

(ESV+)  the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.

(ERRB)  That the sons of God Elohim saw the daughters of men humanity that they were fair goodly ; and they took them wives women of all which they chose.

(GNB)  some of the heavenly beings saw that these young women were beautiful, so they took the ones they liked.

(GW)  The sons of God saw that the daughters of other humans were beautiful. So they married any woman they chose.

(HRB)  The sons of the Elohim saw the daughters of the men, that they were good, and they took wives for themselves from all those whom they chose.

(ISV)  some divine beings noticed how attractive human women were, so they took wives for themselves from a selection that pleased them.

(JPS)  that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever they chose.

(JUB)  that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair, and they took for themselves wives of all whom they chose.

(KJV)  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

(KJV+)  That the sonsH1121 of GodH430 sawH7200 (H853) the daughtersH1323 of menH120 thatH3588 theyH2007 were fair;H2896 and they tookH3947 them wivesH802 of allH4480 H3605 whichH834 they chose.H977

(KJVA)  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

(KJV-BRG)  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

(LEB)  Then the sons of God saw the daughters of humankind, that they were beautiful. And they took for themselves wives from all that they chose.

(LITV)  The sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were good, and they took wives for themselves from all those whom they chose.

(MKJV)  the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were good. And they took wives for themselves from all whom they chose.

(MSG)  the sons of God noticed that the daughters of men were beautiful. They looked them over and picked out wives for themselves.

(NET)  the sons of God saw that the daughters of humankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose.

(NET+)  the sons of God saw that the daughters of humankind were beautiful. Thus they took wives for themselves from any they chose.

(NIrV)  The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful. So they married any of them they chose.

(NIV)  the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

(NKJV)  that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

(RV)  that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose.

(TLV)  then the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were good and they took for themselves wives, any they chose.

(TS2009)  that the sons of Elohim saw the daughters of men, that they were good. And they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

(WEB)  God’s sons saw that men’s daughters were beautiful, and they took any that they wanted for themselves as wives.

(WEBA)  God’s sons saw that men’s daughters were beautiful, and they took any that they wanted for themselves as wives.
(Webster)  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all whom they chose.

(YLT)  and sons of God see the daughters of men that they are fair, and they take to themselves women of all whom they have chosen.

 

[8thdaypriest]

On 12/8/2019 at 6:11 AM, B/W Photodude said:

It helps to give all the context such as the second lone quote which comes from Revelation. Actually John writes the devil shall be loosed a little while, not a millennium.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

You will notice that the righteous who are resurrected live and reign with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were over. Nothing in all of this chapter makes any kind of reference to a "second chance." Not going to happen. 

One of the problems is that no one can come to God except by the influence of the Holy Spirit. I do not believe the Holy Spirit will be anymore calling those of the resurrection of damnation.

Jesus at the close of probation will declare that the filthy will remain filthy. And in John, Jesus clear states there is two resurrections - one to life and one to damnation.

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

People often object to the idea that those who never heard of the gospel will be part of the second resurrection and have no chance at salvation. For those who read their Bibles, it is clear that God will judge some by what they should have known by "invisible things" of God's power. You can read this in Romans 1:20. Also, some who will not be saved also will not be resurrected to damnation. This is clearly written by Sister Ellen (for those who accept her writings) that some will be as they never were, but those who kept them from a knowledge of God will be responsible for their sins.

Conclusion: Only two resurrections and there will be no saving of those raised to damnation.

Your post is more in line with the initial topic of this thread.  So I think we can talk around the posting about the "sons of God". 

You've stated the SDA position/teaching on the resurrections.  Thank you.

I agree.  Some will be judged on what they should have known.  Willful ignorance of God and His truth is sinful, and any sin resulting from that ignorance is sin for which one will be judged. 

The teaching from EGW that some who died in ignorance will "be as if they never were" is not found in the Bible.  If you know where that teaching is found in Scripture, please do share that with me.

John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 "and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation."

BOTH good and evil - raised at "the hour" - on the same day.  The resurrection of condemnation happens at the same "hour" with the resurrection to everlasting life.  Nothing in Revelation 20 says "the rest" are raised to condemnation. 

Daniel 12:2 "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."  (NIV)

BOTH good and evil - raised at the same day. 

The good are raised immortal.  Those who have done evil are raised and judged and burned up.

The BEAST and The FALSE PROPHET are thrown into the Lake of Fire at the Glorious Return of Christ.

Revelation 19:19 "Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to do battle with the one who rode the horse and with his army. 20 Now the beast was seized, and along with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf– signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire burning with sulfur." (NET)

The BEAST is not just one person.  The FALSE PROPHET is not just one person.  Those are entire SYSTEMS of human beings (given over to evil), used by Satan down through history to deceive, control and persecute.  

All of these are thrown into the lake of fire AT THE Glorious Return.   Why would the LORD resurrect them again, to judge them again, and execute them again - 1000 years later?  That would be overkill - in my opinion. 

Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

The passage from Revelation does not indicate the place where those who "have part in the first resurrection" will "reign". 

Most assume they will reign in Heaven, but the 24 Elders sing that they "will be reign on the earth" - as priests and kings. Rev 5:10

Also the passage does not indicate specifically during which millennium they will "reign".  

How could they rule over "the nations" as kings with Christ during the 7th millennium, if the earth is desolate and devoid of life during that millennium? 

NOTE:  I do agree with the SDA view that this earth will be completely decimated by the last plagues. I do not (at this time) believe that anyone left on the earth, will survive the last plagues. They are just too severe and all consuming.  Jesus will create "new heavens and new earth".  Exactly how much earth time will pass between the destruction and the creation of "all things new" - I don't know.  The LORD created this earth in 7 days.  He can certainly restore it in 7 days.  It is possible those "saved" from the first resurrection will only spend a week (of earth time) in Heaven, before returning to the earth.  We just don't know.  [Unless of course, you believe EGW.]

Revelation 2:26 [Christ thru the spirit promises] "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-- (NKJ)  "power" - in the sense of authority.  During what millennium?  

If "the nations" (uncircumcised non-Israelites) are not resurrected until the 8th millennium, how could the saved rule them during the 7th millennium?

And what need would there be for priests during the 7th millennium?  Priests were mediators who taught the law and settled disputes, in addition to presenting sacrifices.  If everyone has already been saved - who will ever be saved - what need of priests? 

John writes that Jesus "has made us kings and priests to His God and Father."  Rev 1:6.

IMO - the prophecies given FIT BETTER with a scenario in which the "second resurrection" is for folks who have not yet CHOSEN whom they will serve.  Such people would need to be governed.  Such people would need priests of God - to teach them the ways of the LORD. 

 

[8thdaypriest]

1 minute ago, 8thdaypriest said:

You will notice that the righteous who are resurrected live and reign with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were over. Nothing in all of this chapter makes any kind of reference to a "second chance." Not going to happen. 

It won't be a "second chance".  It will be the FIRST opportunity these people have ever experienced.  Paul said the Gentiles must HEAR before they can believe. 

I Thessalonians 3:16   [Persecution by Jews and pagans] “forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved,”

        To paraphrase Paul, “If we don’t speak to the Gentiles about Christ, they cannot be saved.” You must HEAR the truth, to BELIEVE it.  

People who could not hear (for whatever reason) could not receive the truth or be "saved".  

Those who accept EGW believe it is just that such people be left "like beasts" "as if they never were".   I cannot accept that as just.  Jesus died for those people.  He carried their sins.  To leave them like dead animals, when they might have believed if presented with the Gospel is not justice.  It is not justice to leave human beings as "collateral damage".  

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

How could they rule over "the nations" as kings with Christ during the 7th millennium, if the earth is desolate and devoid of life during that millennium? 

This is where we differ (as we have previously discussed).  In the scenario I proposed at the beginning of this topic, Jesus comes FOR His saints and takes the saved off of the earth, the seven last plagues fall over a short course of time (7 or 30 days), and then Jesus returns WITH His saints to set up the millennial Kingdom here on earth to reign over those who survive the 7 last plagues. 

(NOTE: I also concede that the entire Middle East, North Africa, and possibly most of Europe may by totally destroyed in the 7 last plagues.  After all, that is where almost all of the Bible stories and prophecies take place.  That WAS the world to the Bible Writers.)

Other than this, I pretty much agree with everything you posted above.

I do concede that it is unclear from prophecy whether certain events happen during the 7th Millennium or afterwards.

[8thdaypriest]

33 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

This is where we differ (as we have previously discussed).  In the scenario I proposed at the beginning of this topic, Jesus comes FOR His saints and takes the saved off of the earth, the seven last plagues fall over a short course of time (7 or 30 days), and then Jesus returns WITH His saints to set up the millennial Kingdom here on earth to reign over those who survive the 7 last plagues. 

(NOTE: I also concede that the entire Middle East, North Africa, and possibly most of Europe may by totally destroyed in the 7 last plagues.  After all, that is where almost all of the Bible stories and prophecies take place.  That WAS the world to the Bible Writers.)

Other than this, I pretty much agree with everything you posted above.

I do concede that it is unclear from prophecy whether certain events happen during the 7th Millennium or afterwards.

Yes - I know.  You think some people may "survive" the last 7 plagues. 

Let's say they do.  They survive. I'm going with your scenario.

The immortal "saints" live with the "survivors" for 1000 years (aprox).  THEN "the rest" are resurrected. 

Many - if not the majority, of the "survivors" did not choose to serve Christ.  They've been making trouble for close to 1000 years.  Now a whole batch of new babes in the woods have been resurrected.  Won't the wicked "survivors" who've been around for 1000 years, quickly try to deceive and corrupt "the rest"?  How would those newbies have a chance?  The "saints" would have to protect them from the "oldies".  How would they do that? 

OR

Would the "survivors" (the ones who refuse Christ) die out over the 1000 years, so there are none of them left when "the rest" are resurrected?   This assumes there will be no human reproduction during the 7th millennium. 

 

[stinsonmarri]

8 hours ago, JoeMo said:

 

Wrong, there are at least 5 other translations that make this claim. There are also dozens of ministries that teach what I propose. Of course, none of them are Adventist, because most Adventists don't believe anything that EGW didn't endorse or talk about.

This was new to me, so I did some research. I now agree that at least part of the Hebrew language had its origins in the upper Nile region (Cush) and Egypt.

The biggest reason people refuse to believe that the B'nai HaElohim (sons of God) in the OT were fallen angels is because they think it is too weird.  They prefer to accept the toned-down Sethite version promulgated by the Catholic Church.  Is what I propose any weirder than believing in a burning bush that talks, talking donkeys, staffs that turn into snakes, rivers that turn into blood, dead people returning to life, extra-terrestrial beings (angels) coming down from the sky to speak to us, a baby born of a virgin, or a man levitating up into the sky, only to return 2,000 years later, or the earth opening up and spewing out demons?  All of it sounds like fodder for a great fantasy TV series, except we believe it to be true.  

Joe: It is an Afro/Asiatic language. We have the Indo European language which includes Iran, India, Pakistan. Russia are all Japheth children languages. Where is Shem? Elamites who they cannot decipher and they have thousands of tablets. The Hebrew nor the Aramaic language fit with Elam who spoke the true Semitic language. They have trace the Phoenician language to include Sinai who by the way come from Canaan, the baby boy of Ham. Sinai is from Ham's son name Sin, who form the Sinite tribe of people. Genesis 10:17 and 1 Chronicles 1:15 They are the one of the ones who spread abroad. The Chinese trace their ancestors back to these people. The Asians are Ham's descendants that why their Script is related to Ham's children. The Dravidian of India were India before the Aryan people from the Caucus Stepps moved into the northern part of India. They are Indo-Aryan people and their languages are a subgroup of the Indo-European language. This is the true historical facts accept the truth about the Hamites have been covered up since the 1600's. We all know the reason why and does not need to continued to be discuss, the truth is known now.

Blessings!

[BlessedMan]

20 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Blessed Man: Just take time to read 2Peter 2:4-5, 9; Jude 1:6 and pray about it then get back with me. I going to bed I just got off work. Had to work tomorrow. Waiting to hear from you!

Blessings and love!

I read them; but have no idea what point you are trying to make, so I will await your enlightenment.

[BlessedMan]

On 12/7/2019 at 3:09 PM, stinsonmarri said:

Let's take a look at the word giants in Gen 6: The Hebrew word is "nephı̂yl nephil," so this mean enormously tall beings, let say like the Greek version of giants? Strange that is not what Strong Hebrew Dictionary states at all! He states that this word means: properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant. Now why would the KJV scholar use the English word giant is clear how they thought and believed:

this is exactly what I have been trying to say. I have no idea how some find "aliens" or "superhumans" or any other of a wide variety of things that are not found anywhere in scripture. I do know that during the time of the end I will not be looking for or waiting for a bunch of Martians, or superhuman giants. I will be looking for, and waiting for Jesus.

[stinsonmarri]

13 minutes ago, BlessedMan said:

I read them; but have no idea what point you are trying to make, so I will await your enlightenment.

Let's start with 2Peter 2:4 if you notice the word hell is used. What is hell, the Bible said that both hell and death will be destroyed by Eternal Fire.  Hell just like giant comes from the Middle Ages. These are Saxons and Britons who were pagan worshipers. They first were Roman Catholics and then was a part of the Protestant reformation. However, by the 1600's many of these great scholar did not translate the Bible like they should and that is a fact. They believed in a lot of Greek mythology and also their pagan religions; which had similar belief! They refused to accept the Sabbath, just like they believed angels had relationship with women and it has past down to this day. They believed in the German word Hell from the Greek word Hades where dead people are not dead. Remember this is what Satan started from the beginning; "you shall not surely die" Now, EGW had two visions and I believe in them both. She saw Satan fall before this earth was made and she said clearly that words have been changed from the Bible. 

The Bible scholars changed a lot to their on beliefs, making the truth more confusing, mystical and mythical and people today rather believe the scholars. That is why EGW did say not to hang on to error and believe in these men. Notice, that most denominations today believe in the dead, think flesh beings are spirits and THE HOLY SPIRIT is a ghost.  THE ALMIGHTIES and the angels are spirit beings. We are flesh and blood, they are not, THE ALMIGHTIES made the angels bodies like THEM and Satan has made this word spirit so confusing as well.

"Tartaros̄," is not hell at all, the word hell is the grave. It is the bottomless pit and Satan and his angels were cast out in place that has a land mass. Now, I have said this as well, the Greek word "ge," is not only the earth. This is also the problem we think that everything revolves around us. Oh, yea we will believe in aliens that look distorted but refuse to accept that beings that did not fall, could present themselves before THE FATHER! They have not sin and they can't come and visit Heaven. Are we so close minded to not understand the vastness of the Universe and shows it has no bottom and it is dark??? Who on earth do we think we are? We are just one planet who fail and think we know it all of the Great Mystery and Secret of THE MOST HIGH We can't even love each other here and claim to love HIM; who we have not seen and can't even stand in HIS PRESENCE!  But the true Created beings from other unnamed numbers of unfallen worlds has that privilege. Just like Adam they were created and made children of THE FATHER as well. Satan and all the angels were to administer unto all the worlds just like they have done here. We are so high minded self absorb, irrational, sinful, resentful beings and I wonder why THEY put up with all of us. We all think we know more then HIM and HE tells HE does not change.Each world, with life was made the same way. In six days MICHAEL created that world just like the earth and the STOP not rest but STOP and CELEBRATED. That is what was told to Job those beings saw the foundation of this world like theirs and clapped for joy and the Heavenly angels sung with joy.

Satan and his evil angels are somewhere close to Heaven; which also is a landmass and it has soil! Hello! They are kicked out to something like a moon, I don't know, but it does not need a firmament  like we do, they don't! All of the angels except Satan have to get permission to come even to this sinful planet. It is right there in Luke. Satan can't do everything he wants as well. It was MICHAEL that actually confer with Satan, who takes on HIS FATHER'S NAME that too is in the Bible.

Satan cannot enter HEAVEN and he was stopped! He cannot look on THE FATHER with sin, nor more then we can. Why is that so hard to believe? He was kicked out, he could have be destroyed if MICHAEL had not shield HIM and those angels from THE FATHER! This is not some plaything we are dealing with and we all need to wake up to the seriousness of what Satan has done! He HATES, and he wants to DESTROY, once he get what he wants out of you! We are nothing to him, he does everything he can to get us to kill, hate and tear each other apart. He detest us and only uses us for his selfish, distorted, high minded reason. He wants all of us to die period end of story! 

When he was expose, Moses was given by THE HOLY SPIRIT, what he said to his CREATOR. MICHAEL ask him had he noticed HIS servant Job. You know the story, but he could not do anything without permission. He has the full privilege to only roam here, but not all of the angels, they are in prison and have to get permission. You nor I really don't realize what Satan has done with the antediluvian world. What you don't seem to understand is that all of the antediluvians were tall in statute, like the Adams. These genius people used all their minds, we only use a five percent!!!! They were not jungle bunny running around, they knew how to splice dna better than any scientist today! The Adams ate off of a Tree that is call the Tree of LIFE! You can't even imagine this Tree and it substance. We think we know and we don't know NOTHING! If these people were alive today, they would think we are some inhuman species that they did with dna! You see we got it backwards and that so pathetic and sad. They didn't believe in a flood and we don't believe in a second coming! We have all these many beliefs, one says this the other says that and all for WHAT! The Bible says we are full of  VANITY! I am tired of this world, the hatred, the animosity, the bickering, the many versions of the Bible, false stories and the mingle of truth with a lie, blindness, confrontation and oh so much more!

I ask how long FATHER, how long I just want us to love each other and try to reason together. We are all of the same kind, created in THE IMAGE and LIKENESS of THEM. Satan has cause this generation to be the most confused, dispassionate, unlikable, unresourceful, unthankful, delusion, irrational, mean, etc people of all. Well I just don't know what else to say. The Bible has been just worn out, toss aside, misread, falsely interpreted! Instead it should be understood and search to have eternal life.

Satan will go to prison just like his angels for a thousand years and then release for a short while. For what, to use the wicked again to try and take the City. Now, that is the second coming, that is when the New Jerusalem will come down with the saints. It is right there! 

The first time HE comes he is coming as a KING and TRUE WARRIOR and HE only takes the beast and the false prophets and put them in The Lake of Fire. The angels is heard calling all of the birds to come and eat the flesh of all of the beast armies. Do you hear of Babylon any more NO! She and the papacy was destroyed in the battle of Armageddon after the 1,260 days or 3 1/2 years. From  the end of the 1,260 to the 1,335 days, THERE IS NO INTERCESSION! The 10 kings and their people will join with the beast and hate the WHORE! The Seven Last Plagues is THE WRATH OF THE FATHER, NOT THE LAMB! It will fall on all who have the mark of the beast, these will be able to buy and sell. The WHORE will not have this mark!! They are in the GREAT CITY known as JERUSALEM but has become like BABYLON, CONFUSION. Of what; many uncage birds; who are they the Protestants, the Jews because Judaism is a false religion too! The Catholic, the Coptic and so much more! These are all false religions period! Like the original Babel, they are all mixed up with false truth. The Bible let's you know clearly this city in the past is the one who killed his prophet, apostles and saints. It is destroyed by the beast and the false prophet in the last earthly battle. IT IS THE FATHER'S WILL!

While that is taking place, THE FATHER is heard telling the time of HIS SON'S coming, the wicked will not understand but the Righteous people will. They like Elijah are safely hidden and taken care of. The Remnant the final true IsraEL and the great multitude. YAHSHUA comes at 1,335 days that's the blessing for those who wait! That is the first coming and these people hear HIS VOICE, THE VOICE of THE ARCHANGEL and the dead rise and are caught together with those  who are alive! 

They all go to Heaven, the beast and the false prophet has been put in the Lake of Fire! The birds have eaten the flesh of all of the beast armies of people. Satan is taken and place in prison now again his angels. The saints are in Heaven judging the wicked seeing why they are lost. A thousands years has past, now the New Jerusalem from Heaven comes down with with the Saints, YAHSHUA returns the Second time this is the time of execution of Satan, his angels, and all the wicked people of the earth. Satan and his angels are release from prison for the final time. The wicked from Cain until the armies and people of the beast are resurrected just how they die. Satan can heal and they are healed and they all see the City. YAHSHUA FEET has touch down on the old Mt Olivet and it becomes a plain and covers the great big hole that the old Jerusalem have left; known in the end as Babylon. An angel casted the great city into the sea after the false prophet nuked it. Now there is a beautiful plain and the New Jerusalem with the saints have set down. Satan has healed the wicked and tell them they all can take the City. He tells them their are more of them then those in the City, plus they have him and his angels. The prepare, YAHSHUA gives them a little time! Now, they are ready to take the city and they look up and see their life history and realizes their true just reward is death. Knees bows including Satan for a minute and then the hatred and all that goes with it comes pouring back. Satan commands them to take the City. Fire comes down and destroys them! This is the second and FINAL TIME!

One final thing, why believe all of these scholars that does not believe the Sabbath and the Commandments?

This is the story and it is all in the Bible, blessings!

[B/W Photodude]

19 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

The teaching from EGW that some who died in ignorance will "be as if they never were" is not found in the Bible.  If you know where that teaching is found in Scripture, please do share that with me.

I do not believe that everything EGW wrote is in the Bible, nevertheless, I believe what she shared from her visions. What is not in the Bible is not salvational and you do not have to believe it. However, given there was a "silence" of nearly 2000 years from the apostles to EGW, I think we are more than blessed that God chose in the time He did to communicate with us thru another prophet. I am not saying that there were no others who spoke for God during the 2000 years, but no one known like unto EGW. EGW says a lot of things in her writings that are not in the Bible, but are interesting to know. God is a revealer of secrets. 

Not everything God has ever communicated to people is in the Bible. If you look thru the OT, you will find many books and writings mentioned that we no longer have. They may have been important to the people of their time, and may even have been very spiritually rewarding to still have them, but they are not vital to our salvation.

19 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

BOTH good and evil - raised at "the hour" - on the same day.  The resurrection of condemnation happens at the same "hour" with the resurrection to everlasting life.  Nothing in Revelation 20 says "the rest" are raised to condemnation. 

Now you show me where in the Bible it says the resurrection of condemnation happens at the same time as the resurrection of the righteous! You will find pretty much the opposite. Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. It is fairly clear here that a resurrection occurs, and the rest of the people will be raised after 1000 years. Jesus did say "behold I come quickly and my reward is with me." I think for all of His people he will ever save, they have been in the ground long enough. Like the souls under the alter, God is unwilling they should remain dead any longer. Time to release them from the prison of death.

God is entirely sufficient to complete His judgement before Jesus comes. While you can believe that people will be saved out of the second resurrection, that is your choice. But from where I am looking into these matters, it is a very dangerous deception. There is a moment when God will say, "Let the filthy be filthy still" and that will be before Jesus comes again, bringing His reward.

[JoeMo]

18 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I'm going with your scenario.

The immortal "saints" live with the "survivors" for 1000 years (aprox).  THEN "the rest" are resurrected. 

Many - if not the majority, of the "survivors" did not choose to serve Christ.  They've been making trouble for close to 1000 years.  Now a whole batch of new babes in the woods have been resurrected.  Won't the wicked "survivors" who've been around for 1000 years, quickly try to deceive and corrupt "the rest"?  How would those newbies have a chance?  The "saints" would have to protect them from the "oldies".  How would they do that? 

OR

Would the "survivors" (the ones who refuse Christ) die out over the 1000 years, so there are none of them left when "the rest" are resurrected?   This assumes there will be no human reproduction during the 7th millennium. 

 

Very good questions. I assume that during the Millennial period, sin still exists, as does death and the grave, since they are not thrown into the like of fire until after the Millennium.  I believe that part of the job of the "priests and kings" of this era will be to bring those outside of the Kingdom into the Kingdom. I believe that there will still be death and sickness among those survivors.  I'm don't know if grace will look the same then as it does now.

When the "rest" or resurrected at the end of the Millennium, I believe they will be on equal spiritual footing with the descendants of those who survived the wrath of God.  They will all be swayed either by Christ and His saints or by satan (Gog/Magog). By the end of the Millennium, I imagine almost all of the descendants of the survivors of the wrath will have come to Christ or have died of the consequences of their continuing sin. There may or may not be people who will side with the "rest of the dead".

There is very little information in the Bible about what the Millennium will look like or what the post-millennial world will look like.  I think the Bible is purposefully vague on these issues; therefore any specifics we propose are purely speculation.  But it's fun to speculate and meditate on the possibilities!

[BlessedMan]

2 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

God is entirely sufficient to complete His judgement before Jesus comes. While you can believe that people will be saved out of the second resurrection, that is your choice. But from where I am looking into these matters, it is a very dangerous deception. There is a moment when God will say, "Let the filthy be filthy still" and that will be before Jesus comes again, bringing His reward.

I agree, the Bible only says there will be two resurrections, and too many texts have to be stretched to make it fit any other scenario, such as we are seeing here:

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. (Acts 24:15)

I am not sure why Ellen White's name has been invoked several times here. Not really a need, nor pertinent to the subject at hand. The Bible supports itself just fine, by itself.

If we move from Acts 24:15 onto verse 25, we see why there is no additional second coming. In fact, it makes no sense to say "two second comings" because that would make more a THIRD one rather than two. We call it the second coming now because He has already come once (Incarnation), and I do not have a clue where one would find support for a third coming. That idea doesn't make sense to me. Thats what is NOT in the Bible, unless, as one has a doctrinal aprirori of universalism, where everyone MUST somehow be saved, or perhaps, if one believed in all the milleniums, which to me is akin of our supposed "crime" of quoting EGW when its appropriate.

But getting back to verse 25:  some people DO DECIDE not in favor of Christ, and elect themselves out of salvation: "And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee. "  (Acts 24:25). Felix "almost" became a Christian, and thats the kind of person where Jesus said in Rev 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

When Jesus NEXT returns; He has His "reward" with Him at that time. Nothing in scripture to suggest He holds some of that back for a THIRD Coming. He won't force anyone; and He alone knows who He has to pronounce that sentence upon.

Rachel; I appreciate very much your zeal for lifting Jesus up; we will likely always disagree on some things which is fine. If I ever saw you stuck on the side of the road; you can bet that Id be stopping to change that flat tire for you. Thanks for your patience in dealing with us all here. :)

[JoeMo]

13 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

I have no idea how some find "aliens" or "superhumans" or any other of a wide variety of things that are not found anywhere in scripture.

There are many studied Christians that DO have an idea about where these aliens or superhumans come from - from the abyss and the pits of Tartarus.  They are not physical extraterrestrials or "X-Men".  I believe they are fallen angels and disembodied spirits of their offspring.  Purebred humans die "completely when they expire.  Nephillim are part "angel", so their spirits are immortal until God destroys them and they die like Men, See Psalm 82.

[BlessedMan]

22 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

It won't be a "second chance".  It will be the FIRST opportunity these people have ever experienced.  Paul said the Gentiles must HEAR before they can believe. 

The only way Jesus can pronounce that awful sentence of Rev 22:11 is IF everyone already had their chance. There is Bible evidence supporting the idea of people choosing to reject salvation.  (Acts 24:2), for one in the example of Felix

[BlessedMan]

2 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

There are many studied Christians that DO have an idea about where these aliens or superhumans come from - from the abyss and the pits of Tartarus.  They are not physical extraterrestrials or "X-Men".  I believe they are fallen angels and disembodied spirits of their offspring.  Purebred humans die "completely when they expire.  Nephillim are part "angel", so their spirits are immortal until God destroys them and they die like Men, See Psalm 82.

Well I can't see how this makes sense. "Immortal" means just that so IF they were immortal, they wouldnt be able to die.  There is no evidence in the Bible to support this Nephalim idea of their supposed "immortality." I will cover Psalms 82 in another post. Nothing there about "Nephalims"

[JoeMo]

"God has taken his place in the divine council;  in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: “How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? ...  I said, “You are gods,  sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.” (Psalms 82:1, 6)

Who are these beings that God called "gods", who will die like men?

God has the power and every right to take away a beings "immortality", or give a mortal being (like us) immortality.

[BlessedMan]

On 12/9/2019 at 9:12 AM, JoeMo said:

Wrong, there are at least 5 other translations that make this claim. There are also dozens of ministries that teach what I propose. Of course, none of them are Adventist, because most Adventists don't believe anything that EGW didn't endorse or talk about.

false flag

[BlessedMan]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

"God has taken his place in the divine council;  in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: “How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? ...  I said, “You are gods,  sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.” (Psalms 82:1, 6)

Who are these beings that God called "gods", who will die like men?

God has the power and every right to take away a beings "immortality", or give a mortal being (like us) immortality.

Psa 82:6  I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7  But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

Quote

gods. Heb. elohim. Here there is a special use of elohim (just as at Psa_8:5 there is another and different special use of elohim), where elohim refers to divinely appointed magistrates, kings, or judges, as "gods." These officials were not considered deity, for it is explicitly stated (Psa_82:7) that they shall die like men, and are rulers of the people, Exo_22:28, As rulers in Israel only, not the nations, they were "the Lord’s anointed," and were thus types of Christ, the great anointed one. If Christ were not truly God, they could not in type have been called gods. In contrast, when Christ is called God, it is in reference to his true deity, (UCRT Cross References)

it is fairly common knowledge that "elohim" is used at times to denote human agents, of varying description. And certainly Psalms 82 is one of those instances. No "EGW" needed. Most reputable commentators would agree with this. The "versions" you mentioned are questionable at best. I think the UCRT explanation makes much more sense

[BlessedMan]

15 minutes ago, BlessedMan said:

it is fairly common knowledge that "elohim" is used at times to denote human agents, of varying description. And certainly Psalms 82 is one of those instances. No "EGW" needed. Most reputable commentators would agree with this. The "versions" you mentioned are questionable at best. I think the UCRT explanation makes much more sense

Psalms 82:1-8
THE JUST JUDGE OF ALL
Those described here as gods are evidently the judges and magistrates of Israel. See Joh_10:34. They were intended to be the mouthpiece and representatives of God; but instead, they thought only of their own interests and sought personal aggrandizement. But the psalmist beheld what was veiled from ordinary view-God standing in the midst of His people, judging them Himself and judging their judges.
We may have done wrongs of which no judge has convicted us. But God has seen, and unless there is confession, leading to forgiveness, He will certainly punish. Or, we may have been grossly misjudged, and in that case He will vindicate us. Go to Jesus, to whom the Father has committed all judgment, and remember that while all things are naked and open to His eyes, He also is the High Priest who is touched with the feeling of our infirmities, and the Lamb that takes away sin. When the foundations of the earth are out of course, let us remember that we belong to a kingdom that cannot be moved, Heb_12:28. (FB MEYER Commentary)

Jesus seems to agree:

Quote

Joh 10:34  Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Think about it, who was Jesus talking to here? "Gods" or "humans?"

- from FB Meyer re John 10:34

Quote

In the strongest terms known to the Jews, our Lord insisted on His oneness with God; and they understood His claims, threatening Him with the penalty of blasphemy. This quotation from Psa_82:6 was originally addressed to magistrates, and our Lord argued that if unjust judges were described by this phrase, because they exercised the divine prerogative of judgment, surely His opponents had no right to stone Him, when, as the Sent of God and sanctioned by God’s witness in His works, He spoke of Himself as the Father’s equal and fellow. See Zec_13:7; and Php_2:6. But their vindictive hate would brook no parley; and as His hour was not yet come, Jesus deemed it better to go beyond Jordan into hiding, until the minute-hand should reach the exact figure on the dial.:

- from The Robert Hawker Commentary

Quote

The sense in which magistrates and princes are said to be gods, our blessed Lord himself hath explained, when clearly proving, that it does not imply the smallest idea of anything exalted about them, but in office only, and thereby distinguishing between the sense in which Jesus is really and truly God, distinct from all his creatures; Joh_10:35-36. But the prayer of the church to Jesus, in the last verse, decidedly proves that the consolation of the faithful, under all the oppressions of the world and unjust judgment, is the contemplation of Christ’s coming to judge the world in righteousness, and ministering true judgment unto the people. How earnestly the church longs for this second advent of Christ; and how sure is the promise of Christ’s coming, may be gathered from Christ’s promise to that effect, and the church’s echo to his promise in the close of scripture, Behold, I come quickly. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. Amen. Rev_22:20.

I could go on for a long time on this one.

[BlessedMan]

10 minutes ago, BlessedMan said:

The sense in which magistrates and princes are said to be gods, our blessed Lord himself hath explained,

Gary Everetts 2013 Study Notes on The Scriptures:

Psalms 82:1-8
Psalms 82
Psa_82:1-5  — A Cry for Justice - Psa_82:1-5 is a cry for justice. We see so much injustice and oppression around us. This was the duty of earthly judges (Deu_1:16-17, Jer_22:1-5).

Deu_1:16-17, “And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.”

Jer_22:1-5, “Thus saith the LORD; Go down to the house of the king of Judah, and speak there this word, And say, Hear the word of the LORD, O king of Judah, that sittest upon the throne of David, thou, and thy servants, and thy people that enter in by these gates: Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the oppressor: and do no wrong, do no violence to the stranger, the fatherless, nor the widow, neither shed innocent blood in this place. For if ye do this thing indeed, then shall there enter in by the gates of this house kings sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, he, and his servants, and his people. But if ye will not hear these words, I swear by myself, saith the LORD, that this house shall become a desolation.”

For example, lawyers and judges in America today grant divorces and vote for abortions. They vote prayer out of school. Doing these things against God’s Word will cause Him to disown them. He will judge them Himself.

Psa_82:1  (A Psalm of Asaph.) God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Psa_82:1  — Word Study on “gods” – Strong says the Hebrew word (אֳלהִׁים) (H430) can be translated, “angels, God, gods, judges.”

NIV, RSV - gods

NASB – the rulers
Note other uses of the same Hebrew word (אֳלהִׁים):
Exo_21:6, “Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.”
Exo_22:8-9, “If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods. For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.”

Exo_22:28, “Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.”
1Sa_2:25, “If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD would slay them.”
T

he NASB, NIV, and RSV translate the word “judge” in 1Sa_2:25 as “God.”

Psa_82:1  — “he judgeth among the gods” - Comments - Deu_6:4 says that YHWH, God, is one YHWH, and Jas_2:19 says, “there is one God.” So, the phrase “the gods” is a reference to something other than more gods who are omnipresent like YHWH. We are those gods (Psa_82:6, Joh_10:34).

Deu_6:4, “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”

Psa_82:6, “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.”

Joh_10:34, “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?”

Jas_2:19, “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”

Psa_82:1  — Comments - Psalms 82 deals with injustice among the judges of Israel. Being a judge was a divine position established by God (Deu_1:17, Rom_13:4).

Deu_1:17, “Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.”
Rom_13:4, “For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.”

Psa_82:1 —  — Scripture References - Note similar verses:
2Ch_19:6, “And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment.”

Ecc_5:8, “If thou seest the oppression of the poor, and violent
perverting of judgment and justice in a province, marvel not at the matter: for he that is higher than the highest regardeth; and there be higher than they.”

Isa_3:13-15, “The LORD standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people. The LORD will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses. What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord GOD of hosts.”

Psa_82:2  How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psa_82:2 — Comments - Psa_82:2 says that wicked men find favor in judgment.
Psa_82:3  Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Psa_82:4-5  — Scripture Reference - Note a similar verse:

Pro_24:11-12, “If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?”

Psa_82:4  Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psa_82:4  — Scripture Reference - Note a similar verse:
Job_29:12, “Because I delivered the poor that cried, and the fatherless, and him that had none to help him.”

Psa_82:3-4 — Comments - Psa_82:3-4 is a cry for justice among the most vulnerable in society, the weak, and the poor. Note 1Ti_2:1-4 regarding praying to God for leaders and justice.
1Ti_2:1-4, “I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”

Psa_82:5  They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
Psa_82:5  — “They know not, neither will they understand” - Scripture Reference - Note a similar verse:
Mic_3:1, “And I said, Hear, I pray you, O heads of Jacob, and ye princes of the house of Israel; Is it not for you to know judgment?”
Psa_82:5  — “all the foundations of the earth are out of course” – Comments - “all the foundations” – Scripture Reference - Note:
Psa_11:3, “If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?”
“are out of course” - Or, the foundations are “shaken” (ASV), “moved” (YLT).
Illustration - See the story of Noah and the flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis.
Rom_8:22, “For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.”

Psa_82:6  I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa_82:6  —  — Comments - Jesus quotes Psa_82:6 in Joh_10:34-35.

Joh_10:34-35, “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;”
According to Joh_10:35, those who are called “gods” are the children who hear and receive the Word of God.
Joh_10:35, “If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;”

Psa_82:7  But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Psa_82:7 —  — “But ye shall die like men” – Scripture Reference – Note:
Heb_9:27, “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
Psa_82:7  — “and fall like one of the princes” - Comments - When a man’s life is ended, he dies, but when a ruler’s life ends, he falls, in a sense, from his rule as a king.

Psa_82:7 —  — Comments - Psa_82:7 reflects upon man’s mortality. Note similar verses:
Job_21:32, “Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb.”
Psa_49:12, “Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.”
Eze_31:14, “To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.”

Psa_82:8  Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Psa_82:8  —  — “Arise, O God” – Scripture Reference - Note:
Psa_12:5, “For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.”

Psa_82:8  —  — “judge the earth” – Scripture Reference - Note:
Psa_58:11, “So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.”
Psa_82:8  — “for thou shalt inherit all nations” - Comments - This inheritance is forever. Jesus will rule and be King of Kings and Lord of Lords. This is a prophetic verse of the future Judgment Day.

Psa_2:8, “Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.”
Rev_11:15, “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”
Dan_7:14, “And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.”

 

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, BlessedMan said:

It is fairly common knowledge that "elohim" is used at times to denote human agents, of varying description

Thank you! I did not know that. From the encyclopedia Britannica:

"Elohim, singular Eloah, (Hebrew: God), the God of Israel in the Old Testament. A plural of majesty, the term Elohim—though sometimes used for other deities, such as the Moabite god Chemosh, the Sidonian goddess Astarte, and also for other majestic beings such as angels, kings, judges (the Old Testament shofeṭim), and the Messiah—is usually employed in the Old Testament for the one and only God of Israel, whose personal name was revealed to Moses as YHWH, or Yahweh (q.v.). When referring to Yahweh, elohim very often is accompanied by the article ha-, to mean, in combination, “the God,” and sometimes with a further identification Elohim ḥayyim, meaning “the living God.”

[JoeMo]

BM,

Thank you for your diligent study above.  I have to look at it more carefully and ponder it for a while; but you have given me much legitimate material to consider.  I appreciate it.

[BlessedMan]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

BM,

Thank you for your diligent study above.  I have to look at it more carefully and ponder it for a while; but you have given me much legitimate material to consider.  I appreciate it.

you are welcome my friend. I have to concede that I am not the first in the class with this stuff, but I did a lot of study on this particular thing re Gen and "sons of God" due to some contact I had a few years back with Mormons. They have a bit of this stuff in their "scriptures."

I was mainly happy to learn this stuff because it cleaed up a lot of mystery to me, before I dug into this; I was starting to wonder if the Bible was "confused" on the subject. While its true we can usually find a rebuttal for almost anything these days, its important to know this stuff re "sons of God" because it means God is talking to/about US rather than "aliens" or whatever theory of "Nephalin" we are going with. Additionally, there is one questionable part of the translation here that most versions render "sons" when, in fact; it should, or maybe could say "and daughters," and thats why I enclosed the above NT quotes above somewhere.

[stinsonmarri]

11 hours ago, JoeMo said:

There are many studied Christians that DO have an idea about where these aliens or superhumans come from - from the abyss and the pits of Tartarus.  They are not physical extraterrestrials or "X-Men".  I believe they are fallen angels and disembodied spirits of their offspring.  Purebred humans die "completely when they expire.  Nephillim are part "angel", so their spirits are immortal until God destroys them and they die like Men, See Psalm 82.

Joe: This is the trick of the devil. I have stated historical that people in the Dark Ages believed in these things before they became first Catholic's and then Protestants. If they don't believe in keeping all the Commandments including the Sabbath and refraining from unclean meats. They will come up with their old paganistic belief that the Catholic allowed in the church. It is no difference then when they went into Cuba and Haiti, who believe Santería and Voodoo (actually Vodune). We call these religious concept not real, why believed in the same thing from the Indo Europeans? The abyss mean bottomless, the universe has no bottom. A pit stands for darkness and the Universe is dark that we call dark matter now! All of this comes from the Greeks and the Europeans who had similar beliefs just like most related cultures. There is truth in what you said too, not part angels, but angels who were kicked out of Heaven before this earth was made.

Think for one minute the world was perfect, Heaven is perfect. These evil angels could not stay in Heaven and the earth when it was created was Holy. They would be visited by THE ALMIGHTIES. Satan could only be in one place and do you think the other evil angels were roaming here on this beautiful perfect world. If they had this place like you think they would take over it and destroy it. They detest us, Rev 8 THE ALMIGHTY is telling them not to even killed the wicked just torture them. After the sealing of the great multitude they killed some of the wicked people who still curse YAHWEH out! Read it please.

Blessings!

Edited December 11, 2019 by stinsonmarri
corrections

[JoeMo]

11 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

They will come up with their old paganistic belief that the Catholic allowed in the church.

Actually, it is the Catholic Church (St. Augustine) who came up with the Sethite view.

" St. Augustine, John Chrysostom, and John Calvin, take the view of Genesis 6:2 that the "Angels" who fathered the Nephilim referred to certain human males from the lineage of Seth, who were called sons of God" (Wikipedia article on Nephillim).