Two Second Comings?

[phkrause]

7 minutes ago, BlessedMan said:

sometimes charges of "racism" can themselves be racist.  While one finger is pointing at the "racist" two other fingers are pointing back at the "racism." 

Isn't it 3 fingers or am I wrong?? ?

[BlessedMan]

Just now, phkrause said:

Isn't it 3 fingers or am I wrong?? ?

lol, well I guess it depends on how the person points?

[stinsonmarri]

4 hours ago, JoeMo said:

You have misquoted me by leaving out a major portion of that quote.  I post it once again below.

 

How does that make me prejudiced?  You are the one who claims all (or most) Canaanites were black.

Joe let me quote the whole  thing you said: "Following your claim that Canaanites were black (which I don't accept), most of the people God destroyed were probably black. Does that make God a racist?" All of the Canaanites were Black and YAHWEH did not killed all of the Canaanites,  that is where you are wrong!

Abraham was a Chaldean all of them were Hebrew which means, "their father was Eber." They, the Chaldeans were worshiping a lot of deities including YAHWEH! Abraham wanted to worship THE TRUE SUPREME CREATORS and he didn't know until YAHWEH SPOKE to him and sent him to Canaan. When he came to Canaan the Amorites and the Jebusites and others were still worshiping YAHWEH. The Amorites taught him the truth, they were still faithful during that time. Here is the facts too, that Melchizedek was both King and Priest of THE MOST HIGH!  The Jebusites were faithful and they built Jerusalem! However, they were introduced to Baal which is the common practice of the Black people who leave YAHWEH and worship the Ox. Egypt, the Philistines in Crete and the Canaanites all worship the ox or the bull! As many of the Europeans worship the sky deities!

YAHWEH told Abraham in a dream in Gen 15:16 that HE was giving the Amorites 4 centuries and it included the following:

The Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, the Hittites,  the Perizzites, the Rephaims, 
 the Amorites, the Girgashites, the Jebusites and all of the rest of the Canaanites (these people own the land from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrate. Gen 15:19-21 Abraham married Keturah a Canaanite woman after Sarah died and the Midianites at one time served YAHWEH! Moses married Zipporah, Jethro daughter and most likely her mother was a Cushite! Abraham had Elizar to return to southern Turkey, where Laban lived, to get Isaac a wife from one of the daughters of his uncle! Laban knew YAHWEH, he was a Chaldean but did not practice his faith as he should either! Rebekah had Esau and Jacob and you know the story.

When Jacob returned to Canaan, he had his wives to take off their deities they were worshiping in their ears and buried them before they reached Bethel! You know beside Leah and Rachel, Jacob had concubines which altogether produce 12 sons. Judah married a Canaanite and had three sons. The first one was so bad that YAHWEH destroyed him and according to the custom, the second son's first child was to belong to his brother. He had to married his brother's wife! They were intimate and you know the story, he was killed! Judah promise Tamara his third son, but didn't, and she tricked him and he impregnated her. She had twins and Perez is the one through his seed had Boaz, who had Jessie, David, Solomon and finally YAHSHUA through that line. 

When the time was up which was 430 years that the Children IsraEL was to destroy them. Their iniquity had been fulfilled. They already seen what happened to Sodom, Gomorrah and the other five cities in the plainland. But, they begin to fall short. Remember Abraham lied twice, the second one was to a righteous nation in Canaan! Gen Chapter 20 When the Children of IsraEL left Egypt there was a mixed multitude that came with them. In Canaan, Joshua was supposed to destroy all of the Canaanites and he didn't. The Gibeonites tricked him and became a part of the workers of the Temple Service! Rahab saved the spies twice and she and her whole family were circumcised and later became a part of IsraEL. Rachel married Salmon who produce Boaz. Ruth was a Moabite, they came from Lot and one of his daughters. The daughter mama was a Canaanite, a Sodomite. Ruth married Boaz which is again the line of YAHSHUA. Bathsheba was Canaanite woman from Giloth. However as usual none of the Bible versions want to provide this but the Bible does. Joshua 15:51.

I can provide you more like Elijah was taken care of by a Canaanite woman, who he healed her son. YAHSHUA healed the Canaanite woman's demonic daughter through her faith. I cannot fathom where you have the idea that all Canaanites were sinners. The gospel came to the Canaanite first and then Abraham. They like the Hebrews fail from grace, but YAHWEH is in the saving business that no one should be lost. Each of Noah's sons knew YAHWEH and their descendants. The Bible shows how THE FATHER chooses and not man's myths.

It is sad to me that you cannot see this and would think that all of the Canaanites were somehow evil just because I stated they were Black. To me honestly that sound like a Mormon view, that everyone was White and YAHWEH was suppose to curse Cain, and turn him Black! They said all Black people were a curse for being that skin color. Now, they they have allowed them into their so call Aaronic priesthood. Not, all the way though! There a little most don't know!

This has got to stop, YAHWEH is no respect of person and HE chose the Canaanite knowing they would fail, like Satan and also like me! But, HE is willing to take me back if I would call on HIM, HE will answer! HE did bring me back those back then and he is doing the same today! That's who I serve! ALLELUYAH- PRAISE BE TO YAH! You see there's old Black Gospel song that says:

"I just a nobody, trying to tell everybody who can saved their soul!" That's the chorus!

Blessings!

[BlessedMan]

15 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

lol, well I guess it depends on how the person points?

I also know someone with a missing thumb and first finger, so he would have to use his middle finger! lol

[stinsonmarri]

14 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

sometimes charges of "racism" can themselves be racist.  While one finger is pointing at the "racist" two other fingers are pointing back at the "racism." 

You know it take courage for a person to tell how their people have been mistreated. My son said stop using the word racism because it really has no meaning. I forget sometime, blame it on my old age! The reason it has no meaning is because we all are of one race! The word should be prejudice and just downright hatred! Why do people feel that people who have seen and experience some type of detestment base on their skin color want to just bring it up? It is hard to forget when it surrounds you everyday in some form or some unkind word or action!!! Were you there in Georgia, at my college classroom, in the 70's when the teacher was teaching that Black people's brain was inferior to their White counterpart? I could tell you more but apparently it would be a waste of time from the above comment.

I will stand, always, to let those who downtrodden others know it is wrong. You can believe what you want, but YAHSHUA sees it all. HE was rejected too so HE knows and HE will take care of the situation. It is true what the Bible says, how can you claim to love THE ALMIGHTY, who you have not seen and hate YOUR BROTHER or SISTER or COUSIN who see everyday. Miriam learned a lesson and this lesson was put their to let all know where THE MOST HIGH stands! Who wants to be mistreated?

That's all I need to say and my prayers will be for all as well as my love!

Blessing!

[B/W Photodude]

On December 21, 2019 at 6:26 PM, stinsonmarri said:

Well the reason why you want to make that assumption is the old prejudice concept. The Amorites that helped Abraham, oh they must be White folks or Melchizedek who was the King and Priest of THE MOST HIGH, nope the Black folks they are not the one who had this man. So lies start to fly:

 everyone in the Bible was white. Everybody In The Bible Was White?

You're skipping "The Curse Of Canaan". What you write are "LIES".

The lie about White supremacy is  in the movies on pictures in the churches includings SDA. Jesus is portrayed as White, God the father look like Zeus and even today on the Hope Channel the call themselves dressing up Esther and the disciples to look like Arabs of today.

I have taken my DNA twice and I am mainly from various Afrikan countries and

Since you quoted me when you posted this stuff, I will assume you are directing these comments towards me.

I made no assumptions, I simply said I think you are stretching things a bit to claim that all descendants of Ham were black. I did not need all the screed to follow regarding claiming everyone in the Bible was white, that I am writing lies, and all the stuff about bible characters in the Bible being white was also unnecessary as I made no reference to it. 

How many times you have taken your DNA is also irrelevant as none of them demonstrate ancestry that far back. 

On December 22, 2019 at 8:02 PM, BlessedMan said:

sometimes charges of "racism" can themselves be racist.  While one finger is pointing at the "racist" two other fingers are pointing back at the "racism." 

I agree. All this accusing of prejudice and racism is going too far. And calling someone a racist when they are not is as evil as being a racist.

One story and one point:

Last week I was at the gym and doing my exercise with all my weights around me on the floor. This greater than six foot tall black guy walks in and asks me to move because he wanted to work out there. I said no, I will be done soon enough and he could wait. He says fine, but I am going to work out here any way, and I find him standing over me (straddling) doing his work out. I wasn't going to get into it, just went to the gym managers who made him move. I was shocked because in twenty years of going to the gym no such event like that had ever happened to me. But this guy goes over and sits down claiming I was a racist! Is that how it works? Whenever a black guy loses an argument with a white person they are a racist! (Similar situation, if a feminist loses an argument with a man, he is a sexist!)

So, if someone loses an argument, are they then prejudiced and racists?

It really is time in this country to stop this kind of stuff such as calling people racists and sexists and all the other names people use over minor stuff that gets ones panties in a wad. There are no survivors of the slave days in this country and there are no former slave owners in this country still alive. Get over it already!

There are far worse situations in other parts of the world that eclipse even the slave days of this country and they are active situations even today. As of 2013, there were estimations by some of 27,000,000 slaves around the world. Very few of the slave owners are white.

The little girl in the picture is eight years old and in a prison in the Phillippines. The cells are so packed that people slept on the floor in shifts.

Finally, don't really care what your beefs are with other people, Scripture clearly states that you must forgive or you will not forgiven. The American slave ancestors are gone, time to let it go. (This is advice given me by my very old aunt regarding the evil done to an uncle by family members. "He is gone, let it go.")

[BlessedMan]

1 hour ago, B/W Photodude said:

I agree. All this accusing of prejudice and racism is going too far. And calling someone a racist when they are not is as evil as being a racist.

I think that too often, the race card, is a situation where the perceived threat is totally misconstrued, because the Bible is so misunderstood on the subject. As far as I can see, there is only one race, THE Human race. Its not human races; it is HUMAN Race. This is quite in keeping with scripture where Paul says:

Quote

God began by making one man, and from him he made all the different people who live everywhere in the world. He decided exactly when and where they would live.(Acts 17:26, ERV)

The Biblical one race idea is solid:

Quote

Hath made of one blood - In AB, some others, with the Coptic, Ethiopic, Vulgate, Itala, Clement, and Bede, the word αἱματος, blood, is omitted. He hath made of one (meaning Adam) all nations - Adam Clarke Commentary)

Conclusion: God made ONE RACE, and MANY NATIONS.  And BTW, I am also a "POC" . - some like to infer to "colored" people by a perceived "race" but we really are one. Sorry if anyone is offended by WHITE is a color too. I am a person Of Color too. POCs are all part of the "one race" in the Bible. "The Black Race" tries to deny having anything in common with their own race, which is every one from every nation! Its just one race, many nations; but it seems that many prefer the prejudiced war words of . If the church would smarten up, if individuals would take the Bible at its word; and accept that we are ONE RACE, many nations, there would be peace in the world today. And I might add, "the Christmas verse, Luke 2:14 is perfect assurance: "Peace on Earth; to people of good will..." (Luke 2:14) "

Its seems according to my experience, that just because of the color of my skin, there is NO way that I can "be of good will"...because I am white."   According to "POC"

Most black people I have talked about this to, including one pastor wont talk about this, and they let "black peoples" call guys like me, "white all the time.  I am usually just called white. I am not even acknowledged as a person. Just a stupid bigoted white, (never "white person" who is (apparently) always wrong about everything  said  on this topic, this kind of topic; just because I am "a white." I would like to request that people STOP calling me "white."  Its being used pejoratively, Its offensive, bigoted, and wrong. I had 50% of my skin fried off in a house fire. I can assure you I am not white anymore...walk a mile in my shoes and experience people cat-calling you about your scars! Like I was a zoo exhibit! Or part of a circus freak show.

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by BlessedMan

[JoeMo]

On 12/22/2019 at 10:07 PM, stinsonmarri said:

It is sad to me that you cannot see this and would think that all of the Canaanites were somehow evil just because I stated they were Black.

I never said the Canaanites were evil because they were black.  If they were evil, it is because they were Nephillim. I'm done with this discussion.

[stinsonmarri]

On 12/24/2019 at 10:58 AM, JoeMo said:

I never said the Canaanites were evil because they were black.  If they were evil, it is because they were Nephillim. I'm done with this discussion.

Joe: That is true some of them were bullies and tyrants like the Philistines, Goliath was a bully also and he came from Ham's second son.

The Hebrew word is "nephı̂yl  nephil" H5303 and not H5307 "nâphal" The plural word that is translated Nephilim is not in the Bible! Again a made up plural word it is strange to me that EL, ELAHH and ELOHIYM which are singular and the plural word is in the Bible. The word is a Latinized transliteration that is not correct!

There’s a lot said and written about the word nephilim. I know it may sound incredible, but practically all of it is wrong—even what’s written by Old Testament scholars. It’s a case of one scholar parroting what the scholar before him or her has said, and so on down the line. If you’re not a Hebrew scholar, have no fear. You’ll be able to understand this.

That is, you don’t need to know how to read Hebrew to follow what I’ll say. If you’re a follower of ancient astronaut theorist Zecharia Sitchin, you may want to run the other way since this short paper will not only show you how the meaning Sitchin’s says is impossible really IS what the word means, but you’ll see how sadly inept Sitchin’s work in Hebrew is. Don’t say I didn’t warn you. If you are a Hebrew scholar, please note that I’m serious about the above claim that most of what’s written about this word is wrong.

You’ve probably accepted the idea that the word nephilim is simply the masculine plural participle of Hebrew naphal. It isn’t. As you read, ask yourself a fundamental question: Have I ever asked myself why the typical explanation that nephilim comes from Hebrew naphal doesn’t jive with Hebrew morphological patterns for a masculine plural participle in any stem? Dr. Michael Heiser, (“Mike has taught over two dozen courses over the span of 15 years of undergraduate teaching. He is currently the Academic Editor at Logos Bible Software in Bellingham, WA.”)

In Genesis, chapter six, the account of Noah and the flood includes a Hebrew word that is erroneously translated as “giant.” Strong’s Greek dictionary shows that the word actually means “properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant.” “Feller” is an older language word derived from the word “fell,” which is defined: “Cruel; barbarous; inhuman,” according to Webster’s 1828 dictionary. Compilation and commentary by Stella Paterson; January 2013 (Amended February 2, 2013)

And YAHWEH Said unto me, Distress not the Moabites, neither contend with them in battle: for I will not give thee of their land for a possession; because I have given Ar unto the children of Lot for a possession. The Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims;  Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims. Deut 2:9-11

For it was of YAHWEH to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as YAHWEH Commanded Moses.  And at that time came Joshua, and cut off the Anakims from the mountains, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel: Joshua destroyed them utterly with their cities. There was none of the Anakims left in the land of the children of Israel: only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod, there remained. Jos 11:20-22 

Joe: I want to thank you once again, because of you, I truly was concern for you and others! I also want know how H5307 "nâphal," which is the root word and the word nephilim the so call plural is not spelled or related to this Hebrew word at all. Matter of fact it it looks like H5303"nephı̂yl  nephil," yet they want to relate it H5307"nâphal?" Would care to explain this logic, I can show it not correct and you can see it truly, yourself!  This plural word that just does not appear to be correct because it was made up to try and put a myth in the Bible. The Bible clearly says to add or subtract from it and here we go again! Thanks to you, I prayed about it and THE HOLY SPIRIT guided to me to do some intensive research on the word. The word is not a plural ancient Hebrew word and a modern renown scholar like Dr. Michael Heiser in the Hebrew language agrees with me. I have  had Logos for many years.

The differences with all of these scholars they don’t realize that men were taller than they are now. Again, I give you the Redwood Trees! What I don’t understand is why, you don’t want to reason as you have in the past? I know exactly what you said, and it was “Following your claim that Canaanites were black (which I don't accept), most of the people God destroyed were probably black. Does that make God a racist?” First, you don’t accept the truth in the Bible that all of the Canaanites were not Black! When the Bible said that they came from Ham. Not once did it mention anything about anyone of them coming from falling angels in that passage or any passage. No, YAHWEH is not racist nor did HE allow angels to mate with human. HE stated from the beginning that male and female created flesh beings would mate and reproduce. HE never warned anywhere to the pair after sin to watch out for angels who would try to mate with them. THE ALMIGHTIES ONES, I serve warn about all sin and this would not make any sense.

Finally, the above Scripture shows that Joshua destroyed Anakims and the Bible said none were left in the land. So, your claim does equate with any of the Bible. I have provided you Bible Scriptures first. I pray for you earnestly to pray for THE MOST HIGH to reveal to you the truth.

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

On 12/23/2019 at 11:41 PM, B/W Photodude said:

Since you quoted me when you posted this stuff, I will assume you are directing these comments towards me.

I made no assumptions, I simply said I think you are stretching things a bit to claim that all descendants of Ham were black. I did not need all the screed to follow regarding claiming everyone in the Bible was white, that I am writing lies, and all the stuff about bible characters in the Bible being white was also unnecessary as I made no reference to it. 

How many times you have taken your DNA is also irrelevant as none of them demonstrate ancestry that far back. 

This is the problem is was not to just about you it was about your comment and how things have been done in this society. One brother hating the other brother for whatever reason. Since the Middle Ages it has been over superiority and skin color! Has it been all, no it has not but the true reasons are there. Those who want to put the blame elsewhere does because they don't want to own up to it and it staring them right in the face. Abel tried to reason with Cain, but he was so full of hate that he could not be reason with. Thank goodness for Joseph's brothers, who became converted, then their eyes were open to the truth. That what delusion does to people blind them from the truth and they always putting the blame elsewhere instead of facing reality! You know what's so funny you are the one that is denying the fact. Japheth is White and that is acceptable because you are not saying anything about him. I wonder why? Oh, but Ham children are not all Black and I am stretching it! Wow, so close minded to me. Providing my DNA may not be relevant to you because you have your original last name, I don't! 

Why do my ancestor have to loose all of their identity or is that stretching it too? You can trace your family back to your homeland but I guess it is stretching that I cannot, I have to take an DNA to know where my family line comes from right? Oh, so you don't thank Jesus is white and Egypt is white people (they came from Ham to so they are not Black either) and Moses is white also, must I go on! So, you don't think all of Shem was White either and that's not important or relevant as you state. Black people have no reason at all to speak out and address the issues if we do it is the racist card thingy!!!!

On 12/23/2019 at 11:41 PM, B/W Photodude said:

I agree. All this accusing of prejudice and racism is going too far. And calling someone a racist when they are not is as evil as being a racist.

One story and one point:

Last week I was at the gym and doing my exercise with all my weights around me on the floor. This greater than six foot tall black guy walks in and asks me to move because he wanted to work out there. I said no, I will be done soon enough and he could wait. He says fine, but I am going to work out here any way, and I find him standing over me (straddling) doing his work out. I wasn't going to get into it, just went to the gym managers who made him move. I was shocked because in twenty years of going to the gym no such event like that had ever happened to me. But this guy goes over and sits down claiming I was a racist! Is that how it works? Whenever a black guy loses an argument with a white person they are a racist! (Similar situation, if a feminist loses an argument with a man, he is a sexist!)

So, if someone loses an argument, are they then prejudiced and racists?

It really is time in this country to stop this kind of stuff such as calling people racists and sexists and all the other names people use over minor stuff that gets ones panties in a wad. There are no survivors of the slave days in this country and there are no former slave owners in this country still alive. Get over it already!

There are far worse situations in other parts of the world that eclipse even the slave days of this country and they are active situations even today. As of 2013, there were estimations by some of 27,000,000 slaves around the world. Very few of the slave owners are white.

The little girl in the picture is eight years old and in a prison in the Phillippines. The cells are so packed that people slept on the floor in shifts.

Finally, don't really care what your beefs are with other people, Scripture clearly states that you must forgive or you will not forgiven. The American slave ancestors are gone, time to let it go. (This is advice given me by my very old aunt regarding the evil done to an uncle by family members. "He is gone, let it go.")

See here is the problem with you, that you would tell this story of a Black man who was very ignorant and equate it to the things I stated! NEVER have I made any claim on this forum about stupidity, NEVER! You, to me will pick something like that to put all the evil that has been done to people of color over this Black man who was a disgrace, disrespectful and full of hate himself and to use the word racism for something as petty as that! I deal with reality and historical facts, things that are educational, Biblical most of all and you provide this is unbelievable! This is so petty and has nothing at all to do with anything I written. It does not even compare to it at all! You want to compare oranges to apples! It is people like you and this Black man who turn the facts upside down. These are the stories you want to provide to wash over the true facts concerning prejudice and hatred, really!

Then you go across the sea and talk about a girl in cage which is very horrific, when it is happening in a this country. Why not speak of the cages of children here and some have died? Again, your are overlooking the Biblical fact of what you think versus what the Bible says! Lastly, actions speak louder than even words!

Peace!

[JoeMo]

4 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

The word is not a plural ancient Hebrew word and a modern renown scholar like Dr. Michael Heiser in the Hebrew language agrees with me.

Dr Heiser is one of my favorite Bible commentators.  He has a very open mind that is not restricted to traditional theology.  In fact, his book "The Unseen Realm" is one of my first introductions to Nephillim as the offspring of fallen angels and humans.  Below is a link to an article where he summarizes his thoughts on who the Nephillim are. (SPOILER - he pretty much agrees with me (actually vice-versa - he's one of the guys I got the idea from).

https://blog.logos.com/2017/11/who-or-what-were-the-nephilim/

[stinsonmarri]

On 12/24/2019 at 12:51 AM, BlessedMan said:

I think that too often, the race card, is a situation where the perceived threat is totally misconstrued, because the Bible is so misunderstood on the subject. As far as I can see, there is only one race, THE Human race. Its not human races; it is HUMAN Race. This is quite in keeping with scripture where Paul says:

That's because people choose to misunderstand it. What amazes me we can discuss other sins with some type of reasoning, but the issue concerning hatred when many hate their cousin due to the color of their skin. Here goes the race card thingy and oh no we cannot discuss it and take a deep look at the real underlying problem of this sinful disease. Maybe because it might open up your heart to acknowledge that their are some serious genuine problems. Why? It is a sin problem not a race card thingy!

On 12/24/2019 at 12:51 AM, BlessedMan said:

The Biblical one race idea is solid:

I believe in one race, the human race. I would rather call us all flesh beings and I have justifiable reason for that as well. If only all would portray this in pictures of the Bible but they don't. The actual true color of YAHSHUA, but you want and then we are accuse of the race card thingy because of sin. When you are truly converted can accept things and facts regardless of any color it is because of love period and not any hatred at all!

On 12/24/2019 at 12:51 AM, BlessedMan said:

Conclusion: God made ONE RACE, and MANY NATIONS.  And BTW, I am also a "POC" . - some like to infer to "colored" people by a perceived "race" but we really are one. Sorry if anyone is offended by WHITE is a color too. I am a person Of Color too. POCs are all part of the "one race" in the Bible. "The Black Race" tries to deny having anything in common with their own race, which is every one from every nation! Its just one race, many nations; but it seems that many prefer the prejudiced war words of . If the church would smarten up, if individuals would take the Bible at its word; and accept that we are ONE RACE, many nations, there would be peace in the world today. And I might add, "the Christmas verse, Luke 2:14 is perfect assurance: "Peace on Earth; to people of good will..." (Luke 2:14) "

Its seems according to my experience, that just because of the color of my skin, there is NO way that I can "be of good will"...because I am white."   According to "POC"

Most black people I have talked about this to, including one pastor wont talk about this, and they let "black peoples" call guys like me, "white all the time.  I am usually just called white. I am not even acknowledged as a person. Just a stupid bigoted white, (never "white person" who is (apparently) always wrong about everything  said  on this topic, this kind of topic; just because I am "a white." I would like to request that people STOP calling me "white."  Its being used pejoratively, Its offensive, bigoted, and wrong. I had 50% of my skin fried off in a house fire. I can assure you I am not white anymore...walk a mile in my shoes and experience people cat-calling you about your scars! Like I was a zoo exhibit! Or part of a circus freak show.

"The Black Race" tries to deny having anything in common with their own race, which is every one from every nation! Its just one race, many nations; but it seems that many prefer the prejudiced war words of. You do not see this is prejudice? You have stated that the entire Black race, when there is only one race. Then you want to clump all of us together saying we all are denying we have anything in common with their own race. Let's see did everyone from every nation become chattel slaves. Oh, we so suppose to forget right. But we can discuss things like the Holocaust which was horrific. We can't discuss how the Indo Europeans felt that they were superior to everyone of COLOR and make the distinguish between WHITE and BLACK! Here's a good one define what's a White lie is and a Black lie is. Now did Black folks made that up too! Did we want you to lynch us, change our names, take us from our native home? Did we ask you to give smallpox to the NATIVE INDIANS and take their land. They gave Europeans land but that was not good enough. My history books when I was in school said you were Caucasians and so was the Ethiopians and Egyptians. Today, the Europeans have proven a fact that Afrikans and the Asian language is related but yet they still deny the truth, placing the Semitic language in the mix denying that Shem's had their own language, like Elamites. The problem they cannot decipher it which a true Semitic language. Mixing up two brothers languages and their is writing and proof that the Hebrew adapted the Afrikan language which was created by the Phonecians. If we state this should be corrected, then it is the race card thingy! 

Look, you were the one who call yourselves Caucasians and it was you who came up with the White word, I personally call you Europeans which is correct as I am from Africa my ancestors came from their and I should have a knowledge of who they were but I don't. I know now where I am from and would love to go back and trace my kindred. You can, I can't! That's is the most difficult thing to take from someone is their heritage which is their name! That's the sin and that's the problem and that is something that many of us long for to belong!!!!!

Peace!

[stinsonmarri]

3 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Dr Heiser is one of my favorite Bible commentators.  He has a very open mind that is not restricted to traditional theology.  In fact, his book "The Unseen Realm" is one of my first introductions to Nephillim as the offspring of fallen angels and humans.  Below is a link to an article where he summarizes his thoughts on who the Nephillim are. (SPOILER - he pretty much agrees with me (actually vice-versa - he's one of the guys I got the idea from).

https://blog.logos.com/2017/11/who-or-what-were-the-nephilim/

Joe: I do not deal with favor, I deal with truth and facts. I do not agree with Dr. Heiser that it was a local flood, but I agree with his understanding of supernatural and not flesh mixing angels. I don't seem to get the same thing from him that you are saying at all! The opposite which what I quoted from him. So let's his quote speak for themselves shall we!

Despite the metaphorical nature of the language in the Eden story, the idea of divine beings producing human spawn who would oppose Yahweh’s desires does appear in Genesis 6:1–4.

“When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.” (Genesis 6:1–4, ESV)

 The origin of the Nephilim

How are we to understand from Genesis 6:4 that the Nephilim were upon the earth at the time of the flood “and also afterward”? How do we process their original presence?

Any viewpoint that strips the account of its supernatural flavor must be discarded. The events described in Genesis 6:1–4 were part of Israel’s supernatural worldview. We cannot pretend they saw things as most modern readers would. Since the Nephilim were part of Israel’s supernatural worldview and their descendants turn out to be Israel’s primary obstacle for conquering the promised land, the conquest itself must also be understood in supernatural terms.

There are two possible approaches to the origin of the Nephilim in Genesis 6:1–4 that are consistent with the supernatural understanding of the sons of God in the Israelite worldview.

How did the Nephilim survive the flood?

Genesis 6:4 pointedly informs readers that the Nephilim were on earth before the flood “and also afterward.” The phrase looks forward to Numbers 13:33, which says with equal clarity that the oversized descendants of Anak “came from the Nephilim.” The sons of Anak, the Anakim, were one of the giant clans described in the conquest narratives (e.g., Deut. 2:10–11, 21; Josh. 11:21–22; 14:12, 15). The text clearly links them to the Nephilim, but how is this possible given the account of the flood?

 The problem is one that has puzzled interpreters since antiquity. Some Jewish writers presumed the answer was that Noah himself had been fathered by one of the sons of God and was a Nephilim giant. Genesis 6:9 clearly wants to distance Noah from the unrighteousness that precipitated the flood—so this explanation doesn’t work.

There are two alternatives for explaining the presence of giants after the flood who descended from the giant Nephilim: 

The flood of Genesis 6–8 was a regional, not global, catastrophe.

The same kind of behavior described in Genesis 6:1–4 happened again (or continued to happen) after the flood, producing other Nephilim, from whom the giant clans descended. Who (or What) Were the Nephilim? - LogosTalk

 Sitchin's Mistakes

Sitchin assumes "nephilim" comes from the Hebrew word "naphal" which usually means "to fall." He then forces the meaning "to come down" onto the word, creating his "to come down from above" translation. In the form we find it in the Hebrew Bible, if the word nephilim came from Hebrew naphal, it would not be spelled as we find it. The form nephilim cannot mean "fallen ones" (the spelling would then be nephulim). Likewise, nephilim does not mean "those who fall" or "those who fall away" (that would be nophelim). The only way in Hebrew to get nephilim from naphal by the rules of Hebrew morphology (word formation) would be to presume a noun spelled naphil and then pluralize it. I say "presume" since this noun does not exist in biblical Hebrew -- unless one counts Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33, the two occurrences of nephilim -- but that would then be assuming what one is trying to prove! However, in Aramaic the noun naphil(a) does exist. It means "giant," making it easy to see why the Septuagint (the ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible) translated nephilim as gigantes ("giant"). Here is a screen shot (not good quality) of Aramaic naphil(a) from Morris Jastrow's Dictionary of the Targumim, the Talmud Babli and Yerushalmi, and the Midrashic Literature (1903; page 923, or page 243 of 1061 of the online PDF of volume 2).

Notice that Jastrow actually gives us the form of the plural in Aramaic: nephilim (ending in "n" not "m" as Aramaic plurals do). It is most likely that nephilim is an Aramaic term imported into Hebrew during the final editing of the Hebrew Bible in Babylon (where Aramaic was the lingua franca) and then the ending was corrected to Hebrew rules of word formation. Both phenomena are known in the Hebrew Bible. The notes on this below are from the scholarly 2 volume work, A Grammar of Biblical Hebrew, by P. Jouon and T. Muraoka (Paragraph 90, sections c and d-a):

As noted above, Sitchin wants to argue the term nephilim means "those who CAME DOWN from heaven" so he can make the nephilim sound like ancient astronauts. Not only does this confuse two characters in the Genesis 6 episode (the sons of God and the nephilim are not the same; they are different groups; see below), but it is a translation impossibility with respect to biblical Hebrew grammar. The verb "to go down" in biblical Hebrew is not naphal; it is yarad. The verb naphal can mean something approximate to "came down" under one condition: it must occur in the Hiphil ("causative") stem in Hebrew grammar. If you know Hebrew, you know this is because the Hiphil stem adds either a prefixed letter to the verb and an a-class vowel (or both) in the verb conjugations, and any such occurrences in the Hebrew Bible are therefore not spelled "nephilim."

Lastly, I want to discuss what is still to me an amazing error in Sitchin's printed work. Granted, I do not believe Sitchin knows much about the ancient languages in which he claims expertise, but this error is especially shocking. Why? It shows Sitchin cannot tell the difference between Hebrew and Aramaic--and they both use the same alphabet.

In his book Stairway to Heaven, Sitchin quotes from a Dead Sea Scroll called the Genesis Apocryphon 110-112. In an effort to defend his idea that the nephilim and the sons of God are the same, he writes: "But as we examine the Hebrew original, we find it does not say 'watchers'; it says 'Nephilim'." The quotation shows that Sitchin did not know the Qumran text was written in Aramaic, not Hebrew, and he also mistranslated it, for the word "Watchers" is actually in the text he quotes AND has pictured in his book! To the right is an image of the transcription of the passage in Sitchin's book and a translation. Both come from The Dead Sea Scrolls Study Edition Vol. 1:Q1-4Q273 - Vol II: 4Q274-11Q31 CD , ed. by Florentino Garcia Martinez and Eibert J. C. Tigchelaar, scrolls specialists (our text is in volume 1). The pink word is the word for "Watchers" and the yellow word is the word Sitchin notes in his quotation, "nephilim." Sitchin either did not know the word "Watchers" was indeed in the text or left it out of his discussion. Since BOTH words appear in his transcription in his book, I'm not sure which is the case.  Dr. Michael S. Heiser; The Nephilim: Sitchin Is Wrong 

Here is another problem there were many different tall tribal people in Canaan: Og of Bashan and his people  were Amorites, the Rephaites, King Rabbath of the Ammonites as well but not tyrant like the the Anakim. 

 A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but YAWHEH destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead: Deut 2:21

Remember the Ammonites come from Lot and one of his daughters! Here is the problem that you need to really look at the whole picture.

 But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we. And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of IsraEL, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. Num 13:31-3

All the people they saw were tall in stature, but the sons of Anak, the correct word is they were bullies and tyrants. Again, I repeat the Hebrew word H5303"nephı̂yl  nephil," there is no Biblical plural word nephilim at all it made up and it is the work of Satan. He will deceive man any way he can if you let him!

[BlessedMan]

3 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Dr Heiser ... has a very open mind that is not restricted to traditional theology. 

https://blog.logos.com/2017/11/who-or-what-were-the-nephilim/

I dont see what possible advantage this kind of idea would have to any serious study of scripture. I took the trouble to read this article, and IMO it is one of the most dis-jointed, convoluted pieces I have read in a long time. Too many connections that have no basis in fact for my taste.

[JoeMo]

20 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

I dont see what possible advantage this kind of idea would have to any serious study of scripture. I took the trouble to read this article, and IMO it is one of the most dis-jointed, convoluted pieces I have read in a long time. Too many connections that have no basis in fact for my taste.

Examples? Scriptural arguments?  Or just criticism of a very respected Biblical researcher, commentator, professor, and author?

[BlessedMan]

38 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

Examples? Scriptural arguments?  Or just criticism of a very respected Biblical researcher, commentator, professor, and author?

"Well Respected" meaning that because someone has a PhD that we automatically agree? I don't think so. Too much of that going on in our world already. I simply stated an opinion of the article. I found the article very dis-jointed, the thoughts not well-connected, and a hermeneutic that really just seems to confuse the whole topic.  I sometimes think people should dispense with the gibbering about their PhDs and other "qualifications." It would be nice if people just focused on the scriptures and what they mean. His virtue-signalling means nothing to me. I hate to break it to you but there's no such thing as an "expert" in Bible study. The simplest, and least educated person can often understand the Bible much better than "educated" people.

As I said; I actually did read the entire article before commenting, and it drew a blank. Its a shallow, out of context article that seems to lose itself in opinions, rather than solid Biblical hermeneutics. I am not clear on just what good it would do for me to venture any further on this. Sometimes its just better to state an opinion and then let others see for themselves. I know that I am not the only one here who would concur.

[stinsonmarri]

23 hours ago, BlessedMan said:

I dont see what possible advantage this kind of idea would have to any serious study of scripture. I took the trouble to read this article, and IMO it is one of the most dis-jointed, convoluted pieces I have read in a long time. Too many connections that have no basis in fact for my taste.

Joe states: "Dr Heiser ... has a very open mind that is not restricted to traditional theology."

I am not here for theology because I do not believe the logic of the Greek deities, which is what that word actually means. What I accept is his understanding of the Hebrew grammar simplified and the truth about the non Hebrew word Nephilim! 

https://blog.logos.com/2017/11/who-or-what-were-the-nephilim/

The above blog does not actual give you complete understanding of what Dr Heiser is stating. I provided Dr. Heiser actual information he gave on logos.com: Who (or What) Were the Nephilim? - LogosTalk You will not understand it until you read the facts. He makes it very clear that Gen 6:1-4 are not the mixing of angels and flesh beings. However, he does think that angels have sex organs because of his misunderstanding that YAHSHUA Said angels do not marry in Heaven. That is very simple to me angels live in Heaven and they don't marry, why they are not created to marry. Which means they do not procreate. An order to procreate you must be both male and a female angels with their sex organs. Angels have a face like a man but also have three other faces like animals with true animal hoof's. They are not even made like us at all. They are also spirit beings ,we are not in anyway. Satan has us so very confused about this. This is part of the problem and it all have to do with the false views of the soul and death. We are living souls angels are living spirits and we all need to understand water and oil don't mix neither do do spirits and flesh. We are different types of beings that have been created. Flesh beings were created in THE ALMIGHTY ONES IMAGE and THEIR LIKENESS angels were created as spirit beings, THE ALMIGHTY ONES are also SPIRIT BEINGS, we are not! Before sin Satan had THEIR CHARACTER just like the Adams. Satan lost THE ALMIGHTY ONES CHARACTER, when we fail we did too, but we can now receive THEIR CHARACTER again, with the renewing of our mind, through THE POWER of THE HOLY SPIRIT! HE IS A SPIRIT BEING that never speaks about HIMSELF, this is what YAHSHUA Stated in the Bible.

When both YAHSHUA and the angels present themselves before flesh beings since sin, the appear like male. But YAHSHUA and the angels have the power to look like us, but they are still spirit beings not flesh. This is what Dr. Heiser believe as most Biblical scholar including SDA. We should know better since we suppose to understand the soul can die. A spirit being cannot just die like a flesh being, it can only be destroyed by its CREATOR! Everlasting Fire can destroy anything for good including the angels!

Ezekiel and John gave a complete description of the angels, the Bible also provides that they were created be around THE ALMIGHTY ONES who has GREAT UNKNOWN OF POWER that is greater than all the stars in the Universe. Angels were made to stand before THEM WITH THEIR POWER. These being also have power that appear to us like a star, yet we do not get it. But the true description of them is they have four faces so if they would have mated with flesh beings, imagine how these things would look like. This totally crazy we have understand how these angels really look. Ancient carvings show a lion with wings, an eagle with wings and a bull with wings. Matter of fact, the bull or ox look so evil like the Minotaur and Satan depicts himself as a huge bull ox, deep red with huge curved horns and ox feet. Notice this creature can talk and has this huge pitchfork. Again, Satan shows you only a part of him and what he really looks like minus the pitchfork! Have you read Eze Chapter 1?

Closing: I take this very serious and I am deeply concern about those who look over the description of the angels, when they speak concerning Gen 6:1-4. It is a misconception until you look at the whole picture and put all of the pieces together; "line upon line and precept upon precept, here little and there a little"

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

I am at work and a call came in why I was making my correction. Again forgive the grammar mistakes. I work at home so I have a headset on and take my calls!

Peace!

[stinsonmarri]

6 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Examples? Scriptural arguments?  Or just criticism of a very respected Biblical researcher, commentator, professor, and author?

I respect him on his knowledge of the Hebrew grammar but not on everything. Why? Because he does not accept a worldwide flood when Bible said it happen. He does not believe in the Commandments, I disagree on his view of THE THREE ALMIGHTY ELOHIYM when he does make references to the true fact. Not only IsraEL, but ancient people have always believe in more than one deities. Matter of fact historically all ancient people had three high deities. Later on they begin to add on more deities that of lesser power and evil being also.

I agree with Dr. Heiser that neither Abraham nor IsraEL was monotheistic which gives you this three gods in one concept. That came from the Aryan or Iran people known in ancient time as Persia! We got it from the Greeks who incorporated all belief systems into their theology which is the study of Zeus or the logic take your pick! I also love how he use THE NAME YAHWEH a lot even in his speeches!

When I look at many of what these Bible scholars are stating; I look and see does it relate to the Bible or deviate. Many deviate many of their studies and knowledge. I know one thing if they don't believe in Creation of the Bible, the flood, Nimrod and not a tower  that was struck down, the truth about the Afrikan namely the Phonecians and all of the Canaanites and that the Hebrews who are Chaldeans spoke the Phoenicians/Canaanites language and most of all the Commandments; then they will not be completely correct or truthful about everything and that's a fact! 

Blessing!

[JoeMo]

13 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I respect him [Heiser] on his knowledge of the Hebrew grammar but not on everything. Why? Because he does not accept a worldwide flood when Bible said it happen. He does not believe in the Commandments, I disagree on his view of THE THREE ALMIGHTY ELOHIYM when he does make references to the true fact.

I don't buy everything he says, either; but I do agree with his position on the watchers/fallen ones/ Nephillim because it agrees with the way I read the Bible.

If you are familiar with Dr. Heiser, are you familiar with some of his contemporaries, like Tom Horn and Mark Putnam?  I don't agree with everything they say either; but they have some very interesting takes on Freemasons (especially Scottish Rite), the alleged "false pope" currently in office, and the fictional bloodlines of the offspring of Jesus and Mary Magdalene (which they dismiss as pure bunk; but a lot of New Agers swear to it as truth)

There's a lot of weird stuff out there; but weird doesn't necessarily make it false.

[stinsonmarri]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I don't buy everything he says, either; but I do agree with his position on the watchers/fallen ones/ Nephillim because it agrees with the way I read the Bible.

If you are familiar with Dr. Heiser, are you familiar with some of his contemporaries, like Tom Horn and Mark Putnam?  I don't agree with everything they say either; but they have some very interesting takes on Freemasons (especially Scottish Rite), the alleged "false pope" currently in office, and the fictional bloodlines of the offspring of Jesus and Mary Magdalene (which they dismiss as pure bunk; but a lot of New Agers swear to it as truth)

There's a lot of weird stuff out there; but weird doesn't necessarily make it false.

Joe, I don't see where you get that he agreed with a word that he states very clear is not correct.

The only way in Hebrew to get nephilim from naphal by the rules of Hebrew morphology (word formation) would be to presume a noun spelled naphil and then pluralize it. I say "presume" since this noun does not exist in biblical Hebrew.

There’s a lot said and written about the word nephilim. I know it may sound incredible, but practically all of it is wrong—even what’s written by Old Testament scholars. It’s a case of one scholar parroting what the scholar before him or her has said, and so on down the line. If you’re not a Hebrew scholar, have no fear. You’ll be able to understand this.

You’ve probably accepted the idea that the word nephilim is simply the masculine plural participle of Hebrew naphal. It isn’t. As you read, ask yourself a fundamental question: Have I ever asked myself why the typical explanation that nephilim comes from Hebrew naphal doesn’t jive with Hebrew morphological patterns for a masculine plural participle in any stem?

Now, this is plain to me that Dr. Heiser like me do not agree that this word is from the Bible. It does not match up with the correct word at all nor it the Hebrew masculine plural participle or in any of its stem. So if it is not Hebrew, it has been added and the Bible said clearly not to add or subtract! It is a made up word and he also said that angels did not mate with flesh beings. I agree!

I also state clearly that angels are not a male that word mean masculine sex organs. They have four faces an ox, MAN LIKE, lion, and finally an eagle with feet like a calf. They do not look like YAHWEH, we do, so, just simply explain how these strange created beings could mate with flesh beings. They also are not called by YAHWEH, HIMSELF any of them HIS son. Now with reason and being rational explain, I am willing to listen!

So you will be clear:

1. Dr Heiser and I agree the word nephilim is not a Hebrew word,

2. Angels could not mate with flesh,

3. Angels have a man-like face and they have more beast faces: Ox, lion, and eagle with calf feet,

4. Which is the greatist: YAHWEH states very clear HE has never called any angel HIS son!

Blessings!

 

[stinsonmarri]

5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I don't buy everything he says, either; but I do agree with his position on the watchers/fallen ones/ Nephillim because it agrees with the way I read the Bible.

Joe: Also, everyone else I do owe Joe an apology. After going back over Dr. Heiser's writing I feel he had lead me and other to a false conclusion. He does believe in some type of angels mix with human beings. I also, now understand and totally agree with Blessed man. Dr. Heiser had this person to believe just like I did that he did not believe in this myth.

In Genesis, chapter six, the account of Noah and the flood includes a Hebrew word that is erroneously translated as “giant.” Strong’s Greek dictionary shows that the word actually means “properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant.” “Feller” is an older language word derived from the word “fell,” which is defined: “Cruel; barbarous; inhuman,” according to Webster’s 1828 dictionary. 

Mike Heiser’s web sites and blogs are worthy of time spent reading and following the blog comments as he interacts with visitors, telling in a very authoritative yet gentle manner the truth as found in the ancients scripts. One question I have not yet found an answer to is this: The Nephilim would have been destroyed in the flood, so where did the other giants come from in the rest of the Old Testament? It would seem, from Dr. Heiser’s writings that the Nephilim would not have been anything other than very tall men--possibly not much taller than some of our tall men today. But from the descriptions of other giants in post-flood accounts, they were much larger. As can be seen, the true definition of the Hebrew word “nephı̂yl nephil” is far from what many are saying in these days, and especially as the end times progress, with more and more evil manifesting everywhere. Countless numbers of people, even respected ministers, are promoting a doctrine that says the Nephilim are “fallen angels,” and that they co-habit with human females to produce evil offspring. There are wildly unusual tales of aliens, all because of the error in translation from the ancient languages, as can be seen in the above PDF from Dr. Michael Heiser’s web site. The man of flesh is fully capable of being evil on his own, without some fallen angel ‘fathering’ him. We need only remember the words God spoke to Noah: "My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh." (Gen. 6:3) And then, as Paul told Timothy, “Yea, and all that would live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.” (2 Timothy 3:12-13 RV). Yes, Satan sends his demons to deceive those especially that are attempting to be “godly” in their own strength, not realizing they are still entrenched in self and flesh. They are ripe for deception, and can quickly become the “deceiving and being deceived.” They are very dangerous, and will lead many astray, while, at the same time, persecuting those who truly walk in Truth. Jezebel in particular is very active as the Second Coming draws nearer. As we see “evil flesh” increasing in number around the world, we must remember Jesus’ words. He said that the time of His Coming would be as in the days of Noah, with everyone carrying on with life as usual, seemingly complacent, even in the midst of what is coming upon them. We must also remember that in Noah’s day “God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (Gen. 6:5). And so it is today. Of the above two described types of “evil,” the most dangerous one is the “religious” one who is deceived and deceiving others--the reason being that the soul is at risk, while those who are “only evil continually” can destroy only the body of a true and faithful follower of Jesus Christ. The following are the Hebrew words that were translated “giant,” including all the verses in which the words appeared. Both Strong’s and Brown-Driver-Briggs’ dictionaries have mistakenly shown the root word as “nâphal.” (See Dr. Heiser’s PDF on “nephilim”). 3 First, we have the definitions as they appear in the Hebrew dictionaries, and then the quoted passages following each definition shown at the beginning of the quotes.

1. Hebrew #5303 נפל נפיל nephı̂yl nephil (nef-eel', nef-eel') Strong’s Definition: “properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant” Translated: “giant”

Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Definition: 1) giants, the Nephilim

2. Hebrew #7497 רפה / רפא râphâ'râphâh (raw-faw', raw-faw') Strong’s Definition: “a giant” Translated: “giant, Rapha, Rephaim (-s)”

Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Definition: 1) giants, Rephaim 1a) old tribe of giants Part of Speech: noun proper, of tribe, gentilic

1. Hebrew #5303 נפל נפיל nephı̂yl nephil (nef-eel', nef-eel') Strong’s Definition: “properly, a feller, that is, a bully or tyrant” Translated: “giant”

4 - The word “giants” was used by the KJV translators in these two verses. Other versions use the word “nephilim” in translation. Genesis 6:4:

“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.” (KJV)

Note: The above verse has led to a lot of speculation and resulting strange doctrines, with varying beliefs as to who the “sons of God” and “daughters of men” actually were.

Numbers 13:33: “And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.”

Note: It would almost appear that the translators inserted the wrong Hebrew word in the above verse, rather than the one in this next definition. (Just a thought).

2. Hebrew #7497 רפה / רפא râphâ râphâh raw-faw', raw-faw' Strong’s Definition: “a giant” Translated: “giant, Rapha, Rephaim (-s)” Brown-Driver-Briggs’ Definition: 1) giants, Rephaim 1a) old tribe of giants Part of Speech: noun proper, of tribe, gentilic -

The following quotes contain the word “giant(-s).”

2 Samuel 21:16, 18, 20, 22: “And Ishbibenob, which was of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose spear weighed three hundred shekels of brass in weight, he being girded with a new sword, thought to have slain David. . . . And it came to pass after this, that there was again a battle with the Philistines at Gob: then Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Saph, which was of the sons of the giant. . . . And there was yet a battle in Gath, where was a man of great stature, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant. . . . These four were born to the giant in Gath, and fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.”

1 Chronicles 20:4, 6, 8: “And it came to pass after this, that there arose war at Gezer with the Philistines; at which time Sibbechai the Hushathite slew Sippai, that was of the children of the giant: and they were subdued. . . . And yet again there was war at Gath, where was a man of great stature, whose fingers and toes were four and twenty, six on each hand, and six on each foot: and he also was the son of the giant. . . . These were born unto the giant in Gath; and they fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants.”

Deuteronomy 2:11, 20: “Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites call them Emims. (That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;”

Deuteronomy 3:11, 13: “For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man. And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, being the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants.”

Note: A cubit = 17-22 inches. Using the average cubit length of 20, and multiply by 9 cubits, we arrive at a length of 15 feet for the bed of the giant. Using the same method of calculation, it was more than 6 feet wide!

Joshua 12:4: “And the coast of Og king of Bashan, which was of the remnant of the giants, that dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei,”

Joshua 13:12: “All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.”

Joshua 15:8: “And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same is Jerusalem: and the border went up to the top of the mountain that lieth before the valley of Hinnom westward, which is at the end of the valley of the giants northward:”

Joshua 17:15: “And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.”

Joshua 18:16: “And the border came down to the end of the mountain that lieth before the valley of the son of Hinnom, and which is in the valley of the giants on the north, and descended to the valley of Hinnom, to the side of Jebusi on the south, and descended to Enrogel,”

The word “rephaim(s)” is used in the following passages.

2 Samuel 5:18, 22: “The Philistines also came and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim. . . . And the Philistines came up yet again, and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim.” 

2 Samuel 23:13: “And three of the thirty chief went down, and came to David in the harvest time unto the cave of Adullam: and the troop of the Philistines pitched in the valley of Rephaim.”

1 Chronicles 11:15: “Now three of the thirty captains went down to the rock to David, into the cave of Adullam; and the host of the Philistines encamped in the valley of Rephaim.”

1 Chronicles 14:9: “And the Philistines came and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim.”

Isaiah 17:5: “And it shall be as when the harvestman gathereth the corn, and reapeth the ears with his arm; and it shall be as he that gathereth ears in the valley of Rephaim.”

Genesis 14:5: “And in the fourteenth year came Chedorlaomer, and the kings that were with him, and smote the Rephaims in Ashteroth Karnaim, and the Zuzims in Ham, and the Emims in Shaveh Kiriathaim,”

Genesis 15:(18-19&)20 (&21): “In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.” Compilation and commentary by Stella Paterson; January 2013 (Amended February 2, 2013)

I read only part, but now I have read the whole thing and I cannot believe that this amendment came to the same conclusion that I did. So what I wrote earlier, I did on my own except the original quotes. I went online to see if their were other scholars that might have a problem with the word like I have. I knew Dr. Heiser was very prominent in the Hebrew language and known in another publication I have, The Biblical Archealogy Magazine and Library.

Dr. Heiser have the story so twisted with both Babylonian and Assyrian myth atempting to incoporate it into Bible truth. Truth and lie does not mix! 

He does not believe in a worldwide flood and that angels have organs to procreate is totally a lie! Look at how they are created and that I cannot apologize! But when, I state something wrong I will say I made a mistake and ask for forgiveness!

Blessings!

[JoeMo]

18 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

Dr. Heiser have the story so twisted with both Babylonian and Assyrian myth atempting to incoporate it into Bible truth.

It would be preferable simply to say that you don't agree with his story.  Time will tell whether or not he has twisted the story.

I think it's time for us to quit calling each other wrong (implying that you (plural) are right).  Can't we just agree to disagree without trying to discredit each other or our references?

BTW, SM, apology accepted.

[stinsonmarri]

On 12/28/2019 at 2:55 PM, JoeMo said:

It would be preferable simply to say that you don't agree with his story.  Time will tell whether or not he has twisted the story.

I think it's time for us to quit calling each other wrong (implying that you (plural) are right).  Can't we just agree to disagree without trying to discredit each other or our references?

BTW, SM, apology accepted.

Joe: Here the thing and why I apologize to you! Because it is not you but the person who provided the story which I say is false base on his own writings. If you do not believe in a worldwide flood and equate the Bible story with the Babylonians and the Assyrians; then showed proof that the word used is not grammatically correct. To me that just do not make sense. With you, you evade the truth of what the angels look like. You are intelligent and that should be something you should consider. I don't believe you have thought about their appearance and how they are made, correct?

One note both the Assyrians and the Babylonian provided winged creatures described clearly in Ezekiel as one of their faces. They'd remember with the help of Satan a certain part of his feature and they did worship these drawings as their deity. So, I just want you to explain that and YAHSHUA said that angels do not marry in Heaven. If they don't marry would they have sex organs? What would be the purpose? Satan and his angels were in Heaven and they were made before they sin. So, are you telling me that poof here comes the sex organs after they sin? All I want you to do is to explain this to me. That is it! Again, I have problem with him.

Blessings!

[BlessedMan]

On 12/22/2019 at 5:25 PM, JoeMo said:

You have misquoted me by leaving out a major portion of that quote.  I post it once again below.

 

How does that make me prejudiced?  You are the one who claims all (or most) Canaanites were black.

"He said she said.."  Why not just talk to the wall? You'd get a more fruitful "ministry" happening.