Does attending church threaten a man's masculinity

[cricket]

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If your church is typical, you'll tally a higher number of women. Have you ever wondered why that is? And if it's true, does it make any difference?

...Barna Research Group has found that, while more than 90 percent of American men believe in God, only a third of them on a given Sunday attend a church (Christianity being the majority religion in America). And the percentage of male churchgoers continues to decline.

http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/living/religion/15201845.htm

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[Gail]

Funny, I was just thinking about this today.

I was thinking of how it really takes guts to stand up for Bible principles. If anything I believe that Christianity makes a man more courageous and honourable

[Gail]

Not to forget kinder, helpful, gentle, patient and family oriented

[Neil D]

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Gail said:

Not to forget kinder, helpful, gentle, patient and family oriented

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That's makes him more responsible, not necessarily more fun...And what man desires more responsiblilty over fun? Unless, of course, the responsibility is fun.....

[olger]

Here is an interesting article that was recently published.

"WHERE HAVE ALL THE BACKBONES GONE?

By Kelly McGinley

February 24, 2004

NewsWithViews.com

Disclaimer (To all the men with backbones and women who obey God, this is not for you)

Where are America's backbones? Where are the men in this nation? Why are they sitting idly by while this country is turned into hell? Where is their courage and leadership? Have they all had spinectomies?

In the past men would give their lives to save women and children. Now they pass resolutions while 4,000 babies are slaughtered daily and mothers are dying on the front lines in Iraq. Judicial tyranny rules. Children are running the homes. This country is disintegrating while the fathers are afraid to take a stand. What has become of the God fearing man? Is this how jellyfish live?

The courage that existed 230 years ago during the founding of this country is nowhere to be found today. We need to remember the courage it took to come to this country, go against the British, and to rebel as at the Boston Tea Party. Men had courage to explore out west and to secede from the union. They fought lions, tigers and bears without a blink. The sermons from pulpits empowered the men to take courageous stands that helped establish this country.

What happened? Are you telling me that small groups of women yelling for equality caused men to tuck their tails and run? That this small group of women caused men to give up their leadership roles in the family, community and government?

The tragedy at Columbine brought this crisis to my mind. I could not believe that all the dads were kept from entering the school. The police and firemen were afraid to go into the school because there were two kids with guns and bombs. So children bled to death because it was not yet safe to enter. DO WHAT? I was flabbergasted. What ever happened to sacrificing our lives for our brethren, let alone our families? If I had been there and my child was inside, it would have taken a bullet to keep me out. Fifty years ago all the dads would have shown up with their guns and dared the government to stop them.

I guess that's how men with little knives hijack planes. They must have known there were no spines on board.

Historically pulpits provided leadership of courage and backbone. The women stayed quiet in the church and the children were well disciplined. Men brought their guns to church, and put clothes on their daughters. This country is full of heroes for men to emulate----look at Christopher Columbus, George Washington, John Adams, Patrick Henry, Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and our modern day hero, Judge Roy Moore.

What happened to America's men? We could blame the feminist movement, or maybe the government doing the job of the men. Could it be the public schools and the drugging of our boys? Maybe pornography and giving into the lusts of the flesh. If there had been real men playing in the Super Bowl, MTV would NOT have done the half time show. Well, whatever happened it must change, or America is doomed.

Men encourage their wives to work for the extra money. Who cares who raises the children. And wives, be sure to take that birth control pill even though it could be detrimental to your health, plus cause abortions. After all, the men need sex without responsibility. Your children are being exposed to horrific images on TV and music, but that's okay. We wouldn't want you to miss a down of the football game.

On my radio show, my motto is that it is the pulpits and the parents destroying America. I am not willing to blame the Democrats, Republicans, ACLU or liberal judges.

This country was founded and became great because of the patriarchal mentality. Families were balanced with a patriarch and a matriarch. Men protected women and children from the dangers of the world. Families were the way God intended them to be. It has often been said when a country is in judgment, "The women are in control and the children rule". God established a natural order for men and women and if we want God's blessings, we must return to that order. Women have taken over many denominations making them pro abortion and pro sodomy. They have infiltrated the military, exploded into the workplace, while their children are either being killed or left to the wolves. The only hope for the children is men turning back to God's Holy Word and returning this country to a patriarchal society again, but I am not holding my breath.

Why are the men and especially the pulpits afraid of the women? You do not hear today from the pulpits God's role for women. For some reason they do not want to deal with these issues. Men can take on Osama Bin Laden and the terrorists, but not the women. It is my belief that this country has suffered for giving women the right to vote. As the scriptures say, women are easily deceived and most vote on emotions and feelings instead of facts and hard choices. Now we have men voting the same way.

Now, if there is anyone left reading, here is a great quote from an unknown author who says it all! "The greatest want of the world is the want of men---men who will not be bought or sold, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall."

Please men, fear God, not women. Women obey God. Do what is required to turn this country back to a God fearing Bible believing patriarchal country again. Your children and grandchildren will rise up and bless you!"

Kelly McGinley

[darlene]

Back in March of this year, I attended the SAM Convention in Phoeonix, Arizona. One night we went to a church in the area that has a membership of over 10,000. (can't remember the name of it) We had supper there and then a meeting with a songservice, commedy performance and then pastor spoke to us. He said that we would notice there was only one woman participating in the band and all the rest were men. He also said they intentionally target men because then they will come. If they had women on the platform and if their program did not target the men then they would not come. So, what does that tell us? <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/dizzy.gif" alt="" />

[Gail]

I used to like having a man's presence in the lower division Sabbath School, as a class without one felt like "woman's land" or something. It always helped with the discipline a LOT, especially with little boys

[cricket]

The male influence is essential in all walks of life. I am always baffled as to why more men aren't involved in children's ministries.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Is it difficult for men to combine traditional male traits of strength, courage, fortitude, leadership, and chivalry, with Christianity? []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/]

[LifeHiscost]

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rudywoofs said:

Is it difficult for men to combine traditional male traits of strength, courage, fortitude, leadership, and chivalry, with Christianity? []http://img.inkfrog.com/pix/Rudywoofs/icon_confused.gif[/]

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Not this man. After all, Jesus is a Man. OTOH maybe the modern chauvanistic attitude is a great deal different than the ideal of manhood as created by God.

[:"red"] "...for in the image of God made he man.

" [/] Genesis 9:6 KJV

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/DOVE.gif" alt="" />

[Gail]

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rudywoofs said:

Is it difficult for men to combine traditional male traits of strength, courage, fortitude, leadership, and chivalry, with Christianity?

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No. I find that Christianity helps bring those qualities out

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I suppose it depends on how Christ is portrayed.. If He is ONLY seen as "gentle Jesus, meek and mild" I wouldn't imagine too many men would want to identify with that description.

[there buster]

Nothing threatens a man's masculinity. Either he's got it, or he doesn't, and the idea of what other people think or say or believe somehow threatening it is-- incredible. Someone else's thoughts or opinions cannot change who I am.

On the other hand, the dominant culture, and of course that affects the church, is hostile to masculinity.

When I do a Men's Retreat, its amazing to watch men responding to messages actually aimed at men, as opposed to "women's retreats" adapted for men.

Even more interesting is the reaction of women to these messages, when I have presented them in slightly modified form to a mixed audience.

Dr. Donald Joy has done a lot of work in this area. He states flatly that the church has become hostile to men. Our church plant, aimed at Gen-X, has a predominance of X-ers, and they are 50/50.

[Gail]

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On the other hand, the dominant culture, and of course that affects the church, is hostile to masculinity.

When I do a Men's Retreat, its amazing to watch men responding to messages actually aimed at men, as opposed to "women's retreats" adapted for men.

Even more interesting is the reaction of women to these messages, when I have presented them in slightly modified form to a mixed audience.

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Ed, can you elaborate on this? This is interesting...

[there buster]

which part?

[there buster]

For one thing, a common mistake is to say that women are more spiritual than men. Women tend to be more religious than men, but religion and spirituality are not at all the same thing.

My experience is that men, even young men, can be quite spiritual, as soon as they realize that many common religious practices are the opposite of spirituality.

[Dr. Shane]

Too many Hollywood movies have distorted what a real man is. So it is Hollywood that bears much of the blame.

A real man is a provider. He provides financially for his family. He provides spiritually for both his family and his community. He lends a helping hand when he sees those in need.

When I think of real men I think of pioneers that sailed across the Atlantic with their Bible in hand, seeking religious freedom. Working the ground, upon arrival, to survive the cold winter. Hunting wild game and sharing his bounty with neighbors.

I think of the men that spread across the West in wagon trains. Upon settling in they helped each other build cabins and the first public building they made was a church. They worked the ground, hunted wild game and were generous and compassionate with orphans and widows.

I think of recent celebrities like Johnny Cash, Kurt Warner, Kirk Cameron and, of course, President Bush that understand a man never stands taller than when he is on his knees.

The question shouldn't be if attending church threatens a man's masculinity but rather, has pop culture perverted what it really means to be a man?

[Gail]

I have always admired well-spoken men such as Arthur Ashe and Gregory Peck, who didn't need to show any machismo to portray themselves as real men. I am not impressed with the "macho" thing. I think that Dr. Ben Carson would also fall into this category. In my eyes they do much for the uplifting of humanity (and also their race if they are a minority)

Also I like comedians who don't resort to trash talk to be funny, such as Bill Cosby

It is VERY honourable to take leadership in areas such as dignity and respect for others

[Gail]

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1.On the other hand, the dominant culture, and of course that affects the church, is hostile to masculinity.

2.When I do a Men's Retreat, its amazing to watch men responding to messages actually aimed at men, as opposed to "women's retreats" adapted for men.

3.Even more interesting is the reaction of women to these messages, when I have presented them in slightly modified form to a mixed audience.

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Ed, please take these 3 points and illustrate for us, if you wouldn't mind <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[there buster]

I risked posting because I had some indication something might be done about the endlessly abusive behavior of certain posters. Recent evidence demonstrated that to be a mistake.

That being the case, I will act.

[there buster]

See previous post.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> What happened????

[Gail]

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rudywoofs said:

<img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> What happened????

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Am looking into it, but Ed's mailbox is full and I cannot get through to him

[bevin]

Does it threaten masculinity? No

Does it appeal to men - not most men.

My experience with the SDA church organizations are

• They are disorganized
• They deny they have problems, when it is obvious they do
• They are ineffective problem solvers, when they do acknowledge those problems
• They deny the benefits of experience and education, prefering instead wimpy emotional men who claim to have some deep spiritual insight/calling - all the while totalling screwing up the area they are "called" to

Ok - it is an exageration, and it omits a handful of exceptions. But let us look at the obvious "role models"

The men who write for the Adventist Review - Clifford Goldstein who denies the value of science, and can't do logic, but who writes glossy fluff.

3ABN's one-and-only Danny

Any other TV evangelist you care to name

...

Where are the intelligent planners who can accurately describe and fix the problem? Wiped out by a bunch of mamby-pamby members who only want to hear that all the doctrines and traditions are right, and all we have to do is believe...

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

I don't think the article that Cricket linked to was specifically talking about the Adventist church. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />