Sinning against the Lord..

September 7, 2006

I've been reading from various books of the Bible lately. This passage from 1 Samuel caught my attention:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

1 Samuel 12:20-25 (Amplified Bible)

20And Samuel said to the people, Fear not. You have indeed done all this evil; yet turn not aside from following the Lord, but serve Him with all your heart.

21And turn not aside after vain and worthless things which cannot profit or deliver you, for they are empty and futile.

22The Lord will not forsake His people for His great name's sake, for it has pleased Him to make you a people for Himself.

23Moreover, as for me, far be it from me that I should sin against the Lord by ceasing to pray for you; but I will instruct you in the good and right way.

24Only fear the Lord and serve Him faithfully with all your heart; for consider how great are the things He has done for you.

25But if you still do wickedly, both you and your king shall be swept away.

It was actually the 1st part of the 23rd verse that struck me... "Moreover, as for me, far be it from me that I should sin against the Lord by ceasing to pray for you.."

I don't know if it is an imperative from God to pray for others, but this verse makes me think it might be - at least it sounds to me that prayer for others must be very important. I haven't been doing that very much lately. I need to pray for others more.... Often.... Always.

September 7, 2006

Yes- ceasing to pray should be a sin, if it isn't already! <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This is only my opinion and I'd love to hear from others about it too, but I think that there must be some things that become sin for some people which are not for others.

For instance- I don't consider it a sin to eat a whole bowl of chocolate ice-cream, because 1) I don't do it often because I don't have a sweet tooth and 2) I don't tend to gain a lot of weight by it.

For someone with a weight problem, eating that ice-cream might very well be a sin to them.

I do believe that there are certain things that the Lord will impress upon a person that are not universal temptations

IMHO...

I don't know- anyone else with a take on this?

September 7, 2006

I'm not able to pray. I've tried, but I just can't--not beyond something simple and quick like, "Please Lord, let so-and-so be all right" or something.

If I push it, things get ugly for me. REALLY ugly. Let's not go there.

I wouldn't say I've "ceased" to pray as that implies a choice in the matter.

September 7, 2006

Interesting question Pam.

I had an interesting conversation with Abba about prayer. It seems there are several kinds of prayer.

There is "general prayer" which we all engage in. It seems that not praying this kind of prayer is not necessarily a sin, but it's not particularly wise either.

Then there are the prayers in extremis. Those "Help me, Jesus!" prayers that we blurt out, drawn out of our inner recesses and deepest pains.

Then there is intercessory prayer. This is the kind of prayer for other people where you stand in the gap of the hedge of protection for them in protective, redemptive, prayer because they are unable for whatever reason to do so for themselves. This kind of prayer is usually an Abba-led thing, for a specific purpose. Failing to persevere in this kind of prayer could very well be a sin. In my experience, this kind of prayer is usually a heart-burden from Abba, and as such, to me, a directive that one ignores at one's peril.

I think it was this intercessory type of prayer, clearly felt as a heart burden, and a direct instruction from the Lord that is referenced in that verse. To ignore a direct instruction would indeed, be sinning against Him.

This is just MHO looking back on the stages of my prayer life over the last 7 years. It is only in the last few years that intercessory prayer has become a part of my prayer life.

Oh... and then there are the "wake you up in the middle of the night prayers" where you're woken by the Holy Spirit, only you don't realize it at first, and you can't sleep until you pray, and as you pray someone you haven't thought of in a while comes to mind and next thing you know you're praying for them, in tears for them, begging Abba to intercede for them. And then you know why you're awake and when you're done praying, sleep comes.

September 7, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

rudywoofs said:It was actually the 1st part of the 23rd verse that struck me... "Moreover, as for me, far be it from me that I should sin against the Lord by ceasing to pray for you.."

I don't know if it is an imperative from God to pray for others, but this verse makes me think it might be - at least it sounds to me that prayer for others must be very important. I haven't been doing that very much lately. I need to pray for others more.... Often.... Always.

Great insight. I totally agree. The only "sin" that EGW says that Daniel committed was not praying for his people. This gives some background behind his prayer in Daniel 9.

Also in the Lord's prayer, there is the use of "us" and not "me".

September 7, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Nicodema said:

I'm not able to pray. I've tried, but I just can't--not beyond something simple and quick like, "Please Lord, let so-and-so be all right" or something.

If I push it, things get ugly for me. REALLY ugly. Let's not go there.

I wouldn't say I've "ceased" to pray as that implies a choice in the matter.

Can I ask a question Nico? What do you mean by you don't have a choice in the matter?

September 8, 2006

When things that are beyond my ability to control literally stop a thing from happening dead in its tracks, despite all effort to push past to the contrary, that's what I mean by not having a choice in the matter.

It's not important. Forget I mentioned it.

September 8, 2006

Well, yeah it is important when prayer is the life breath of the Christian!

Time for some prayer warriors here to pray for some freedom and delivrance for Nico. There are times when for various reasons we cannot pray and that is when our church family can be helpful

There is no reason why anyone should remain in bondage. Let's pray that Nico can once again have a choice!

September 8, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Nicodema said:

When things that are beyond my ability to control literally stop a thing from happening dead in its tracks, despite all effort to push past to the contrary, that's what I mean by not having a choice in the matter.

It's not important. Forget I mentioned it.

Hi Nico, I respectfully disagree. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/i.p.emrose.gif" alt="" /> I think it is important, especially if it involves you. I'll be praying too. You know what's awesome though, is that He will answer you before you even call!

Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. 1 John 4:4

September 9, 2006

Let's please return this thread to being on topic. I did not mean to call so much attention to myself. I sincerely apologize. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/oops.gif" alt="" />

September 9, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Sid said:

The only "sin" that EGW says that Daniel committed was not praying for his people.

Not to digress, but I'm interested where in the Bible this information as described might be found.

Blessings!!

September 9, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

LifeHiscost said:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Sid said:

The only "sin" that EGW says that Daniel committed was not praying for his people.

Not to digress, but I'm interested where in the Bible this information as described might be found.

Blessings!!

Did I say the Bible said this or that EGW said this?

September 9, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gail said:

Let's pray that Nico can once again have a choice!

[:"red"] "Be confessing to one another the trespasses, and be praying for one another, that ye may be healed; very strong is a working supplication of a righteous man;" [/] James 5:16 YLT

And it is a choice to pray, or not, when we see a sister or brother in difficulty with the enemy of souls. Is it a sin not to pray when the Spirit moves me to pray? Perhaps under these conditions, yes!

[:"red"] " If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it." [/]

1 John 5:16 KJV

It is never held against the disciple's account in the books of heaven when refraining from doing something God has not given power to do. That is why reliance on the righteousness of Christ for the tasks that need to be done is so freeing to the Spirit.

[:"red"] "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit: for apart from me ye can do nothing." [/]

John 15:5 ASV

[:"red"] "Looking at them, Jesus said, " With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God." [/] Mark 10:27 NASB

September 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Sid said:

Did I say the Bible said this or that EGW said this?

While I always defer to the Scripture when there is silence in it on any particular, I would be glad to consider the message you point out if you wouldn't mind giving the source

from her writings.

Cheers!

September 11, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

LifeHiscost said:While I always defer to the Scripture when there is silence in it on any particular, I would be glad to consider the message you point out if you wouldn't mind giving the source

from her writings.

Sure no problem. The Bible doesn't say much about Daniel's sin. One reference to it is Daniel 9:20 "While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people..." EGW does elaborate saying that his sin was not praying for his people. The source is Prophets and Kings. I'd have to look up the chapter and page, but it's in that book.

September 12, 2006

Nico!

I understand!

They way my brain synapses goes I think too much about people and stray from the thing I am doing- Like Praying!

I didnt quite get all your specifics but I see the same thing.

Brain going somewhhere and not really praying anymore.

The older I get the worse.

When I was younger I would litterrally fall back asleep if I prayed for a long time(more than 8 minutes or less).

Most of my praying is driving in the car.

I am alert!

well most of the time

September 12, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

I didnt quite get all your specifics but I see the same thing.

Brain going somewhhere and not really praying anymore.

I suppose you could put it that way ... except where my brain goes is ... to hell. To a place fraught with nightmares and terrors and traps and torments ... and I don't like that place, and I don't want to go there.

So I don't.

September 13, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gay4JESUS said:

Nico!

Brain going somewhhere and not really praying anymore.

The older I get the worse.

I don't think that is uncommon. What works for me is to not fight it. Just take a long-slow deep breath and let the thought float away and continue to pray.

It's when I allow myself to focus on the invading thought and become allow it to discourage or concern me that it takes me away from my prayer.

Or, sometimes what brain seems to go somewhere else I pray for the person or situation which has entered into my prayer. Afterwhich I can continue with my original topic of prayer.

Don't know if I have explained it the way it works for me, but hopefully my account will be of some value.

Yelp, have done a lot of prayer while driving and many other places. But, always alert <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Naomi

September 13, 2006

[Edit: tacked on, not intended to be directed at Naomi. It's just that my post followed hers.]

My problems start when God starts talking back to me.

He takes me to hell, and tortures me with His words.

But not right away, and not in the way you might think. First He comes with lovingkindness, patience, wisdom, understanding, to engage me in the conversation. Obviously if a condemnatory voice started going off at me I would call it out as not being from God, and reject it, and pray for Jesus to make it leave me alone.

So I get drawn into the conversation, because that is what prayer is like for me, a conversation ... and after a time the conversation begins to shift VERY subtly. I don't notice this at first, because I'm deeply engaged and at that point I'm like a child who has been persuaded to open her heart. I'm opening my heart up to God, and being as honest as I can be with Him, with myself, about everything, turning things over, looking at them from new angles, trying to let the Holy Spirit work on my heart, hoping He will cleanse me of all that is evil and teach me the good.

And it's like there I am, all open, all vulnerable, all trusting, all totally engaged in prayer at this point, believing I'm having a conversation with a Heavenly Father who loves me as His very own child, who is not willing that I should perish, who is tender and merciful toward me no matter how disgustingly selfish, egotistical, proud, vain, or wicked I really am, so it's supposed to be safe to open up -- like you'd trust the heart surgeon to fix you if you were sick -- open up and let Him bring that knife in and start to cut away stuff....

Only then that's when the shift starts and before I know it, the Holy Spirit is patiently explaining to me ... yet again .... for the thousandth time (the definition of insanity you see, is doing the same thing over and over again thinking you'll get different results, right?) ... why I can never again be a part of the kingdom ... how I cannot be healed .... precisely how it is and why that is ..... which I cannot speak here because it is so devastating ...... so impossible to surmount, so impossible to dispel ... ..... here I am, coming to Him with the only me I have to bring ... there He is, turning me away, rejecting me to my face, and explaining the entire thing with scripture and impeccable things that cannot be gainsaid .... and all the time ..... so loving ...... so sad ...... so incredibly heartachingly SAD while He's telling me this ...........

.... and that's why I don't pray. Prayer takes me to God. God takes me to hell. And I don't want to go to hell.

Wow, I don't think I've ever been able to fully describe that before. Surely I shall be punished for doing so. I expect to be insulted by a hefty serving of the usual predictable pablum any minute now. Do me a favor if that's you I'm talking to there: just ignore me instead. It would truly be much kinder.

September 13, 2006

Nico, the Lord who came reconciling the world to Himself, who came that the world through Him might be saved, with whom nothing is impossible...

is not telling you that you can never be a part of the kingdom. That is just so opposite to what the Bible tells us.

If you are coming to Him with the only you you have to bring, and are willing to give all of you to Him, then the promises are for you as well as anyone else.

Have you ever wondered if it is Satan telling you those things, to discourage you from turning to God? The Bible calls him the father of lies...

Is it something in your brain? Please help me understand <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

September 13, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Nicodema said:

Only then that's when the shift starts and before I know it, the Holy Spirit is patiently explaining to me ... yet again .... for the thousandth time (the definition of insanity you see, is doing the same thing over and over again thinking you'll get different results, right?) ... why I can never again be a part of the kingdom ... how I cannot be healed .... precisely how it is and why that is ..... which I cannot speak here because it is so devastating ...... so impossible to surmount, so impossible to dispel ... ..... here I am, coming to Him with the only me I have to bring ... there He is, turning me away, rejecting me to my face, and explaining the entire thing with scripture and impeccable things that cannot be gainsaid .... and all the time ..... so loving ...... so sad ...... so incredibly heartachingly SAD while He's telling me this ...........

.... and that's why I don't pray. Prayer takes me to God. God takes me to hell. And I don't want to go to hell.

If that is how the Christian God is, then He is a perpetrator of spiritual abuse.

And sometimes I wonder if, indeed, He is.. <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/sad25.gif" alt="" />

September 13, 2006

No, Gail, that's the problem. It's God. This only happens when I seek God in prayer and when I pray deep, you know, going beyond just simple surface stuff like, "Lord, please be with so-and-so and help them" or whatever. When I go deep into the heart with prayer. I don't know the right word for that but I think most would know what I'm referring to by that.

I have wondered, yes, but I know Satan intimately, and it really doesn't seem like him at all. And everything the Spirit tells me in those times is 100% backed up by scripture and reasoning which cannot be gainsaid. I've tried all sorts of things -- I've tried repenting of whatever it is that places me in that condition (and I'm not entirely sure what that is other than my identity which I cannot escape, obviously). I've tried just throwing myself on His mercy. I've tried agreeing with everything He says and begging for His help and for Him to change things. But He just shakes His head sadly at me. It's the incredible sadness that gets me ... there's no "condemnation" in it at all, really, except what I feel in my heart as a result ... it's just like He knows all things .... and this is one of those things ..... and ..... that's all there is to it, all there ever can be.

I have permission and leave from His throne to go my way, live long, prosper, and make of myself whatsoever I will. The only thing I cannot be while I live, is His.

I have been banished from the Kingdom forever. And if I go to Him again, I will still get the same answer.

This is the terrible secret I have hinted at before, and have heretofore kept to myself. I can no longer keep it a secret. I no longer care who knows.

I am amazed to find myself crying while I write this. I truly thought myself past all feeling on the matter. I have certainly trained my mind away from its contemplation for some time now. Digging it out of me and putting it into human language has been like an exercise in reopening old scar tissue into fresh wound.

September 13, 2006

You have said that you know Satan intimately... and perhaps that is the heart of the matter

Why not turn your back on Satan and cast yourself at the foot of the Cross and on God's mercy? God's word does not lie, but Satan knows it well and can use it to destroy you <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Jesus said that He came that we might have life. Can you not take hold of His words and Him? When you look at Jesus in the Bible, He is life, He brings hope, He brings us power over sin and victory over Satan, peace and rest.

As long as you feel sorrow over your sins and as long as you care about your standing with God, it is not too late. That is an indication that it is not too late, that you still struggle with it. The Holy Spirit is striving with you and the Enemy is trying to tell you that it's not worth it, that you don't count when you DO!

Oh, how I wish your heart would be at rest, Nico! But you need to renounce Satan. I fear he may be trying to hold you in bondage

I feel sad in your sadness <img src="/adventist/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> But you are not like one who is indifferent to the Lord. There is still hope!

September 13, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Gail said:

You have said that you know Satan intimately... and perhaps that is the heart of the matter.

Why not turn your back on Satan and cast yourself at the foot of the Cross and on God's mercy?

I've already tried this, on numerous occasions. These things to which I referred above happen while I'm trying to seek Christ (not Satan) and walk His way. This is not a Satan issue; it is a God issue.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Jesus said that He came that we might have life. Can you not take hold of His words and Him? When you look at Jesus in the Bible, He is life, He brings hope, He brings us power over sin and victory over Satan, peace and rest.

I have tried, but it only brings me turmoil and confusion eventually, hellish agony, and when I try to sort that out, things only get worse. I can't do it by myself, because then I run into the things I've described above (or worse); and other people don't seem to know how to help me either, and my experience has been (and continues to be) that it's more trouble than it's worth to attempt to engage others in my ... situation ... because it just creates turmoil for them which in turn causes them to do and say things with me that make everything ten times worse.

September 13, 2006

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Only then that's when the shift starts and before I know it, the Holy Spirit is patiently explaining to me ... yet again .... for the thousandth time ) ... why I can never again be a part of the kingdom ... how I cannot be healed .... precisely how it is and why that is ...

I know little of the evil one, but I know that what you're describing cannot be the voice of God. It sounds to me like, when you are vulnerable, the evil one slips in and tells you lies. The voice is telling you that your condition is beyond the power or the will of God to remedy. That can only be a lie. Because no matter how great the sin, grace is greater. God is more powerful than sin.

And as we know,

[:"red"] When [the devil] lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. John 8 [/]

Again, I make no claims to knowledge or experience in these matters, but it seems to me that when you begin to hear those things, [:"red"] Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [/]

Perhaps that's too simple. It may be too little, but it's all I have to offer. That and my prayers.

Sign In

Sinning against the Lord..

Recommended Posts

rudywoofs (Pam)

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Gail

Nicodema

Clio

Pockey

Pockey

Nicodema

Gail

Pockey

Nicodema

LifeHiscost

Pockey

LifeHiscost

LifeHiscost

Pockey

Parade Orange

Nicodema

Naomi

Nicodema

Gail

rudywoofs (Pam)

Nicodema

Gail

Nicodema

there buster

Browse

Activity