Fausto Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Are you saying that while the rest of the church has apostasized, the SDAs are the one true remaining denomination? This question has been answered to you, but to ascertain further: I am not saying it the bible is, yet there may be others out there who are doing the same but are outside the organization. Quote
BibleShockers Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 >>>...God is on the throne. So do you accept the notion that Jesus reigns for 1000 years and then steps down so that God can take the throne and be all in all? Bill Quote Bill Ross
Moderators John317 Posted August 18, 2008 Moderators Posted August 18, 2008 >>>Bible prophecy predicted that before Christ returns, there would be a movement or church raised up who would keep God's commandments and the faith of Jesus, and would have manifest among them the gift of prophecy. Seventh-day Adventists believe that they are this movement... Pre-1920 or post-1920 only? Bill The beginning of the movement-- when God began preparing people for His Second Coming, in fulfillment of Revelation 14ff-- was long before 1920. It was actually in the early years of the 1800s, specifically between 1820 to 1861. The people who began to study about Christ's return were from all different denominations and churches, and many were Arian and others were Trinitarians. What brought them all together was their belief that Christ was coming soon. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleShockers Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 >>>This question has been answered to you, but to ascertain further: I am not saying it the bible is, yet there may be others out there who are doing the same but are outside the organization. Ok, now you are freaking me out... Who is on the throne post-millenium? Many thanks indeed. Bill Quote Bill Ross
Fausto Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. According to this both seat at the throne of power! So Jesus has to be part of the God triune! Or Trinity. Quote
Fausto Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 Now Bill, tsss...tsss, that language is not appropriate! We treat each other kindly even tough we may disagree! We all get frustrated at times but is this necessary? Quote
BibleShockers Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 >>>According to this both seat at the throne of power! So Jesus has to be part of the God triune! Or Trinity. Ok, so then were you God's darling before 1920? Bill Quote Bill Ross
Moderators John317 Posted August 18, 2008 Moderators Posted August 18, 2008 >>>The question about who is on the throne after the millenium was already answered earlier today. What was the post #? Oh, you are a cagey one... Can you please supply a name? Bill I posted this on the other thread. I was sure you saw it before. I plan to go into detail regarding 1 Cor. 15, later on. But you will find your answer here: It is God who is on the throne. Jesus is God as much as the Father is. They are not in competition with one another. Jesus does not become superior to the Father because of Christ's work of salvation and destroying sin. In order to save mankind and restore peace to the universe, the Son and the Father have had different roles or parts to play in the salvation process. The Father had handed all things over to the Son for the purpose of subduing and destroying sin and death. See Matt. 11: 27. The Son then came to this earth as a baby. As Phil. 2 says, the Son voluntarily submitted Himself to the Father and took on the role of a servant. That is why when He came as a man, Jesus emphasized the fact that He did nothing except what the Father told Him to do and said nothing except what the Father told Him to say. Jesus was emphasizing that the Father and Son work in perfect harmony. There is no competition between them for the highest position or for more power. After subduing all enemies and destroying sin, Jesus then turns the kingdom over to the Father. This act implies no inferiority of the Son compared with the Father. It is a demonstration of the unity of purpose among the members of the Godhead whereby the activities of one are seen to be the activity of the whole. By the way, the word eita never means "at the same time, but rather "next," "afterward," and "after that." In verse, the Greek word hotan is indefinite as to time, and means "whenever." That Christ reigns after the resurrection and the Second Coming is plainly established by Rev. 20: 1-6. Christ reigns during the 1,000 years. 1 Cor. 15: 24, 25, 27, 28 is not a chronological sequence of events, and no specific time for these events is given. Paul's point is that the resurrected Christ will conquer all evil, including death. See Rev. 20:14. This includes His handing over the Kingdom to the Father, following His destroying all dominion, authority and power of persons and forces opposing Him. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted August 18, 2008 Moderators Posted August 18, 2008 Explain 1920? I'm now confused! Bill is referring to the time when the Seventh-day Adventist church became united on the doctrine of the Trinity. 1920 was about when this happened. From the beginning of the church-- 1861-- until about the turn of the century, many of the leading brethren had beliefs regarding Christ very similar to the Arians. They believed that Jesus had been created or generated from the Father eons ago. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleShockers Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 >>>...It is God who is on the throne.... Thanks, John317. So is Jesus/the lamb on the throne at that time as well? Or has he at that time stepped down? Please do not answer by posting an SDA literature reprint. Please just answer with brief, informative answers. Thanks, Bill Quote Bill Ross
Moderators John317 Posted August 18, 2008 Moderators Posted August 18, 2008 >>>According to this both seat at the throne of power! So Jesus has to be part of the God triune! Or Trinity. Ok, so then were you God's darling before 1920? Bill All who put their faith in Christ and accept Him as their Lord and Savior are beloved of God. If an Arian does this, and lives up to all the light that God sheds along his path, God loves him just as surely as He loves someone who realizes the truth of who Jesus Christ is. Belief in the Trinity is not necessarily what makes someone beloved of God. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted August 18, 2008 Moderators Posted August 18, 2008 That reminds me. I have been reading some of your website. Interesting. Does that express your belief at the present time? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
BibleShockers Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 >>>That reminds me. I have been reading some of your website. Interesting. Does that express your belief at the present time? More or less. Bill Quote Bill Ross
BibleShockers Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 >>>All who put their faith in Christ and accept Him as their Lord and Savior are beloved of God. Including the evil antinomians? Bill Quote Bill Ross
Fausto Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 This leads to some very interesting reading in my opinion. Adventist History Quote
Moderators John317 Posted August 18, 2008 Moderators Posted August 18, 2008 >>>All who put their faith in Christ and accept Him as their Lord and Savior are beloved of God. Including the evil antinomians? Bill Anyone who truly puts their faith and trust in Christ and is open to the teachings and leading of God's Holy Spirit. God does not expect any of us to know everything at once. It's a learning process as we walk with Christ day by day. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted August 18, 2008 Moderators Posted August 18, 2008 This leads to some very interesting reading in my opinion. Adventist History Yes. Thanks for posting that, Fausto. Hey Bill, I hope you'll take a look at that site because it gives the history of the beginnings of the Adventist church. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted August 18, 2008 Moderators Posted August 18, 2008 >>>That reminds me. I have been reading some of your website. Interesting. Does that express your belief at the present time? More or less. Bill If those things express your world-view and your thinking at this time, why are you so concerned about whether the churches are following the Bible? You have told me that you do not even believe the Bible to be any thing more than a human-made document. So what difference does it make if the church is following it or not? I noticed on your website you say that Jesus was a sinner. However, the Bible says Jesus was "without sin," and that He "committed no sin." 1 Peter 2: 22. I was very surprised to see that you don't believe that God loves the world. Why do you think this? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted August 18, 2008 Moderators Posted August 18, 2008 >>>...God is on the throne. So do you accept the notion that Jesus reigns for 1000 years and then steps down so that God can take the throne and be all in all? Bill We need to study in depth on the topic of what the Bible teaches regarding the nature of Jesus Christ and also the nature of God. At some point it would be very important to look thoroughly at John 1: 1-4. Since you understand some Greek, how do you believe John 1: 1 should be translated? Talk to me, if you will, about the phrase, "and the Word was God." Parse it and tell me why you translate it the way you do-- what rules apply, etc. Also, who is the Word in John 1? Who is the Word in 1 John 1: 1, 2? Show by reasoning from the text how you arrive at your conclusions. I'm very interested in what you have to say and in what you think. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Fausto Posted August 18, 2008 Posted August 18, 2008 G3056 logos ~ log'-os From G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation; specifically (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (that is, Christ): - account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- G3004 lego ~ leg'-o A primary verb; properly to “lay” forth, that is, (figuratively) relate (in words [usually of systematic or set discourse; whereas G2036 and G5346 generally refer to an individual expression or speech respectively; while G4483 is properly to break silence merely, and G2980 means an extended or random harangue]); by implication to mean: - ask, bid, boast, call, describe, give out, name, put forth, say (-ing, on), shew, speak, tell, utter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ H2036 hôrâm ~ ho-rawm' From an unused root (meaning to tower up); high; Horam, a Canaanitish king: - Horam. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ H5346 neqeb ~ nek'-keb The same as H5345; dell; Nekeb, a place in Palestine: - Nekeb. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- H4483 menâ' menâh ~ men-aw', men-aw' (Chaldee); corresponding to H4487; to count, appoint: - number, ordain, set. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- H2980 yâbab ~ yaw-bab A primitive root; to bawl: - cry out. I give up, it does not want to take up the Greek and Hebrew script, so I'll omit it Quote
BibleShockers Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 >>>...I noticed on your website you say that Jesus was a sinner. However, the Bible says Jesus was "without sin," and that He "committed no sin." 1 Peter 2: 22. That is just referring to his example of how he handled the mock trials: 1 Peter 2: 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: >>>I was very surprised to see that you don't believe that God loves the world. Why do you think this? Because his love is extremely conditional, and no one meets his conditions. 2 Thess 2: 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion [divine Jesus], that they should believe a [the] lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Bill Ross Quote Bill Ross
BibleShockers Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 >>>Since you understand some Greek, how do you believe John 1: 1 should be translated? "In Genesis 1, when God was giving form and order to [not "creating"] the sky ceiling and the dry land system, the word [iE: "let there be..."] was there, with God, and the word was divine utterance. Divine utterance had always been with God. Everything in this ordering came about by means of this utterance, and nothing was accomplished without God uttering "let there be..." The word had life-giving power and the life animated men and made them self aware. By the agency of this same word, there was a special life brought about, and the life was humanity's light source. And the light shines on. The darkness did not suppress it. A man named John emerged who was indeed from god, who came as a witness to the light so that people would believe in the light because of his testimony. But no, he himself was not the light source for humanity but rather a witness for the light - the true light that gives light to mankind, which was coming to the community of lost men. It was in the community of lost men but was not itself a part of that lost community. The community of lost men came about through it but they did not correctly recognize it. It came to its own and its own did not accept it. But to as many as received it, to these it gave the privilege of becoming sons to God, to those who believed in its name. Not to those born of a particular blood line, or born because of sexual desires or the plans of a husband, but rather those whose birth can be attributed to God. And this word of God became embodied in human flesh! And we saw it's shining, like the shining of the unique son of a father, permeated with beneficence and with truth. John is a witness concerning him and has proclaimed "This man is the one of whom I said 'one of my disciples will pass me up' because he was more important than I." And so from the bounty embodied within him we have received beneficence upon beneficence, since the law came through Moses but through this man has come beneficence and truth. No one of us ever saw god but the special son, who is now dining intimately at the father's right hand, expounded him to us." >>>Who is the Word in John 1? Not "who" but "what." The word is the "let there be..." utterances in Gen 1. Bill Quote Bill Ross
BibleShockers Posted August 18, 2008 Author Posted August 18, 2008 In reference to the "spirit" of prophecy... Is it the SDA position that one of the marks of the true remnant church that it recognizes Ellen White as a prophetess? Thanks, Bill Quote Bill Ross
Moderators John317 Posted August 18, 2008 Moderators Posted August 18, 2008 >>>...I noticed on your website you say that Jesus was a sinner. However, the Bible says Jesus was "without sin," and that He "committed no sin." 1 Peter 2: 22. That is just referring to his example of how he handled the mock trials: 1 Peter 2: 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: All the evidence of Scripture supports Christ's holiness and purity. He himself said, "Which of you convict me of sin?" He said he always did what pleased His Father. He said He kept His Father's commandments. Hebrews says plainly that Jesus was "without sin." Jesus was called "holy and righteous" from the time of his conception. Satan tempted Him and could not cause Him to commit sin. God the Father testified publicly that He was well pleased with Jesus Christ. It is the Devil who wants people to believe Christ was a sinner. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.