Not so serious anymore

[John317]

Hey Truth,

You are blaming God for everything that Satan is responsible for.

Have you studied the book of Job? It's all right there. Lots of bad things happen to good people for no other reason than that God allows Satan to do those things to demonstrate who Satan is and what Satan's way leads to. I trust God enough to to keep trusting Him even when I don't understand why everything happens as it does. We live in a dangerous, sin-filled world.

My dad died yesterday morning, and he was a very good man. He devoted his whole life to living for God, but God allowed him to go through some pretty rough times. He didn't curse God or hate Him. In fact, my father worked in a ministry where he helped hundreds of people get free of Satan, people who knew they were being harassed and controlled by Satan. There is freedom in Jesus, friend. But Satan loves for you to blame God and hate Jesus.

Pray that God will lead you to people who can help you. We on the Forum can write but we can't do anything for you in person, and that is really what you need. You need a godly, wise pastor who believes in the Word of God. There must be some in your area.

[Guest truthseeker007]

John thank you for your contribution in trying to help me. I am sorry for your father but at the same time glad that he was able to live a Godly life and reached 90s. Somewhere in the back of my mind i know i am doing and thinking the wrong stuff but i just cannot help it.

Concerning counceling; i cannot get help from anybody because i don t trust anybody, not even pastors. That s probably the reason why i am shouting some of my frustration on the internet. I hate it to be rejected or ridiculed. I have experienced that whole my life. It s like an h-bomb of negative energy is surrounding me 24-7 that makes people feel uncomfortable when i am around. I am different than other people. So getting help is no option. God was the only one who i really trusted. I have invested so much time in trying to figure out how he is like, but i ve found out that he doesn t seem to care about people that are desparately seeking him. I wish Jesus just said the truth in the bible so he wouldn t give me false hopes. The truth is that God doesn t listen to our prayers and that he doesn t care. He is a liar.

[phkrause]

Can I ask you to do something? Not for me but for yourself. Do you have a soup kitchen in your area? If you do please go and help them. At this point we all know that you hate God, etc., so I', asking that you stop dwelling on that OK. Just go out and if you don't have a soup kitchen find something else to do that helps other people OK. Do that for a few weeks. And as your helping others look at them and see if they are better for your be kind to them or not. OK

Take care truthseeker, and have a happy Sabbath.

pk

[John317]

Quote:

Truthseeker-- ....Somewhere in the back of my mind i know i am doing and thinking the wrong stuff but i just cannot help it.

Concerning counceling; i cannot get help from anybody because i don t trust anybody, not even pastors. That s probably the reason why i am shouting some of my frustration on the internet...

I know you can't help it.

Are you able to control your thoughts?

Can you open the Bible and read it and pray without evil thoughts about God coming to mind?

Please try to do this for about 15 minutes before answering, Truth. Turn to 2 Peter 1: 1-4 and study those verses, reading them out loud, and then pray to God that the Holy Spirit will help you realize those truths in your own personal experience. Pray out loud just like you're talking to a friend. Tell Him exactly what you are thinking and feeling about the verses you just read. (Remember that He won't be shocked at what you say. He knows you better than you know yourself.)

Afterwards, tell me if it seems to you that you are in total control of your life? Are you able to control your words and your thoughts?

[Guest truthseeker007]

I am sorry John i can t do that. When i see a bible i go crazy, i want to tear it apart. Once i open a bible i get so tired that i fall asleep. Besides it is all written in mysterious language, it annoys me. I don t know if i am able to control my words and thoughts. It costs too much energy to try to do that. I am tired all day. I appreciate your concerns but i think it is time to face the truth, God is not willing and/or able to help me. It is my personal conviction that all religion is evil. Maybe it is a plot made by people to controll the masses or it is invented by higher powers to steal our energy. Maybe the real God doesn t manifest itself by any of the worldly religions. I don t know. What i do know is that i have tried everything to get nearer to God. I gave up my girlfriend (the best thing ever happened to me in my life), I gave up friends, alcoholics, sex, violent movies (about 200 dollars in the trash can), destroyed potentially bad music (about 200 cd s), went to church for several times on my own, ( it started about 3 years ago, i first went to church on a sunday, i didn t hear anything but i ve tried to grasp some presence of God because i felt so sad that i didn t know God.) I ve lost two years of serious education because of my faith, religion made me paralyzed. I ve made a fool of myself in front of everybody because i claimed the SDA church was the right one. They were probably right when they ridiculed me. All this time i had to fight against the only thing that made me forget my misery ;porn. I gave it up for some time too just to make sure that that wasn t the reason why God didn t answer me. I have prayed every night for three years now without any answer coming to me. I ve really tried EVERYTHING i could possibly do, but it didn t work out.

In my view it is justifiable to conclude that either the SDA church is from Satan or there is no God at all. I ve chosen to conclude that there is no God.

I don t want to offend anyone here so i ll not expose my feelings about God on this forum.

[Lineman]

Quote:

TS wrote:

Concerning counceling; i cannot get help from anybody because i don t trust anybody, not even pastors. That s probably the reason why i am shouting some of my frustration on the internet.

TS-Shouting here is a good thing. I've kindof done it myself. The neat thing is that God knows what we are going to shout even before we do, so nothing is a surprise to Him anyway. He knows how we feel.

Quote:

TS wrote:

Somewhere in the back of my mind i know i am doing and thinking the wrong stuff but i just cannot help it.

Years ago I was trying to figure out the exact steps to take to become a Christian. I figured that it must take certain steps, in an exact order for us to get there. I read lots and thought about it for some time and eventually came to the realization that there is only one thing that I have to do (and actually it is something that we don't do rather than something we do).

One of the books I read said,

Quote:

The sinner may resist [God's] love, may refuse to be drawn to Christ; but if he does not resist he will be drawn to Jesus.

Steps to Christ

and I realized that the Bible was saying the same thing in James.

Quote:

Submit yourselves therefore to God [do not resist God]. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."

James 4:7

Can it be that simple? Is it possible that God can take me just the way I am and if I don't resist His love? Will I really be drawn to Jesus? Another quote caught my eye:

Quote:

Many have an idea that they must do some part of the work alone. They have trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of sin, but now they seek by their own efforts to live aright. But every such effort must fail. Jesus says, "Without Me ye can do nothing."

Steps to Christ

I have spent several years lately looking at some of the things God has made both here on this earth and in the universe (at least what we know of it). I am increasingly amazed at how complex things are and I wonder why God spent the time doing all this stuff just the way He did.

As an example, I was thinking about this earth, about what is needed to support life and realized that what we really need is just some kind of water and food and some oxygen. If God hates us, why didn't He just create us on a sandy or rocky, barren waste land with just enough plants that would give us just barely the oxygen we need and produce just enough terrible tasting stuff for us to eat? Why didn't He create only bitter water for us to drink? He could have forced us to live in a place like that and even made it so that we would never die, but just suffer forever.

What's going on? Why do we have all kinds of really neat stuff to enjoy? Could it have something to do with His attitude toward us? Does He actaully care about us?

Quote:

Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. John 16:24

It's really amazing to me that the one being in the whole universe who can do everything also wants us to be happy. He wants us to be FULL of Joy. Why? Because He hates, us or is it because He loves us?

The more you see the truth of God the more you will love Him. He is AWESOME!

[Guest truthseeker007]

Thanks Lineman for your contribution. I am glad that you have found your faith. Though i cannot rely solely on the bible as a basis for my life because it contains so many promises that just don t come true in personal lifes. For instance, Jesus said we could ask and do anything in his name. Still there has never been anyone healed from an amputation or that sort of stuff. Why is that?

In contrast, science is responsible for the savings of hundreds of millions of people from pestilence etc. In the bible it says that the whole world would be filled with the knowledge of God. Maybe the knowledge of God is assimilated in science, culture etc. I don t know.

I see my life as a spiritual journey and maybe this hard experience was necessary to figure out that Fundamentalism is not THE truth. Maybe Jesus had some kind of good relationship with God and is loved by God but i cannot see him anymore as God himself. Rather as one of the many representatives of God. I realise know that all i have to back up Ellen White s version of the Great controversy are heavily disputed facts. In the bible it says that faith comes by hearing the word of God. If i read New Age stuff it also makes me a believer so this is not a fair way to introduce people to God and get to know him. I no longer wish to rationalise everything away in order to maintain a set of beliefs. God must be greater than the adventist church and the Christian faith. I know there is a supreme being out there and he wants me to be happy. If ever there will come a national sunday law at least i know with whom i am loyal with.

To be honest with you i am afraid to make certain steps toward Christ. I want to see a transformed life and that s something i don t see happening. Sometimes i wonder if it is because that i am not baptised that he ignores me, but that can t be the reason because i have asked him many times to assist me in my steps toward baptism.

My name is truthseeker and i geuss i have found new valueble truths; fundamentalism is wrong. Nevertheless i believe that the bible is inspired by higher powers and that this church is the most consistent bible believing church in our time.You guys have so many truths that you could start a revolution if you wanted to. Prior to believing in the bible alone i used to believe that all evil is only the result of misunderstanding things. I really don t know actually where to go now i have passed this station. There are no other credible theories i know yet about good, evil, the creation of this planet. That s why i believe that all the religions are perverted distortions of God. I geuss i am somethingistian.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEugchJ0-sE

[John317]

I am sorry John i can t do that. When i see a bible i go crazy, i want to tear it apart. Once i open a bible i get so tired that i fall asleep. Besides it is all written in mysterious language, it annoys me. I don t know if i am able to control my words and thoughts. It costs too much energy to try to do that. I am tired all day. ....

There's only one answer, and that's to put your faith and trust completely in Jesus Christ.

If you want help, ask God sincerely to lead you to someone who can give you the help you need. God knows your heart and mind and He knows your deepest longings.

I'll be praying for you, and I know others are praying, too. We pray that you will have a desire to surrender your entire life to Christ and be willing to follow Him in every way He leads.

[Gerr]

Counseling? So you are admitting that Jesus power is only fictional? Well i am glad we agree Jesus ain t got the power to transform my life. Not even the holy spirit is able to do something. All i feel is hate and pain. If i am getting somebody telling me stuff right now i am gonna kill em.

When a bridge goes down, engineers and their workers fix it. You don't pray for God to fix it. When your watch stops running, you go to a watchmaker instead of asking God to repair it. If you are a diabetic, a doctor can help you with insulin or some other medication instead of asking for a miracle.. Why the reluctance to see a counselor if he/she might be able to help you?

Gerry

[Lineman]

Hi TS,

You wrote,

Quote:

My name is truthseeker and i geuss i have found new valueble truths; fundamentalism is wrong. Nevertheless i believe that the bible is inspired by higher powers...

One online definition of "fundamentalism" is:

Quote:

Movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles.

It seems that someone has deceived you. The one basic principle of the Bible is love, love for both God and man. EVERYTHING else is based on that. Believing in this principle as being wrong cannot be right.

But the most important topic we can discuss has to do with your statement:

Quote:

To be honest with you i am afraid to make certain steps toward Christ. I want to see a transformed life

You have been concerned that God is not listening to your prayers for help. You ask, even beg, Him for help, yet you really are not sure if you want His help, am I right? (I know the feeling.)

I ran across a statement that kind-of floored me a few years back though.

Quote:

You are not able, of yourself, to bring your purposes and desires and inclinations into submission to the will of God; but if you are "willing to be made willing," God will accomplish the work for you, even "casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ." 2 Corinthians 10:5.

Thoughts from the Mount of Blessings

Sounds like me. I wanted to be "good", but I was afraid to "let go and let God". The question for you right now is, are you "willing to be made willing"? If so, tell God. Then He can do His good work in you. Then you will see answers to those prayers of yours.

The neat thing about God is that unless you want Him to, He will not make rapid changes in you. He gave you the ability to choose life or death and He will never take that away from you. Of course He wants you to live and to be happy, but it is still your choice. Even after giving your life over to Him completely you are free to turn around and say, "Hey, I'm out of here." Remember, Lucifer did that. He chose death, but you are free to choose whatever you want.

Today, I choose life. (I hope you do too.) Tomorrow I may choose a different way, but because I like what I see God doing in my life I think I will just let Him keep doing whatever it is He wants to do.

Being willing to let God do in you what He wants is not the same as giving up your free will. Pretty awesome when you think about it. What freedom!

Blessings,

Dan

[Guest truthseeker007]

I ve decided to follow my heart. IN life this has always proved to be the best way to live my life. If there is a God he knows i am willing to sacrifice everything for him. Anyway i am absolutely certain that the bible is not perfect and is not always to be taken literally.

I feel sorry for this church because there are so many warm truth loving people in here. But i am afraid that this movement cannot remain pure for a longer time because of several reasons;

- A lack of a scientific approach concerning prophecy. What i mean is that there are a lot of people who want to introduce conspiracy theories into the church without backing them up by several scientific confirmations. Then this church will be labeled as one of those wacko churches

- Secondly, the church is very weak represented internationally. This is dangerous in cases of crisis and also not beneficial for spreading the 3 angels messages. I could have created institutional frontiers for the church internationally so our position in the world would be way stronger.

- Thirdly, there is a lack of desire in the hearts of man to conquer this world spiritually. Rationalising and other excuses for doing nothing, prevail in the church.

- Fourth, the church becomes more and more accustomed to this world. Without strong man holding the pure faith as a banner unto the world, evolution theories and other man-made wisdoms will infiltrate. What this church needs is a man who is able to visualise the spiritual borders and put the right men at the right places. Empower the scientists to the battle against evolution, unite the theologians in a sub organisation so they are able to represent themselves in front of all the international governmental and non-governmental organisations etc. etc. The church should operate as a perfect machine.

- To achieve this we need unity. Yet the church remains divided.

These facts and many others will destroy the purity of the church. I could prevent all this from happening but God refuses to listen to my prayers. Now, i believe that if ever this church will be destroyed spiritually God cannot rightfully be angry. He should be angry with himself instead because he refused to work with me.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Rudy woofs,

Rudy it is not about me. I am not chosen. I wish just someone would step forward and take care of the church. All i need is some confirmation from God to carry out my plans. I will never on my own authority carry out these plans. I know i am able to make this church a real powerfull church. If just God somehow gave me a confirmation i would find ways to fulfill this mission. By organising assemblies, organising the tools of the church in an efficient way etc. etc. I am not stuck in hierarchical ways of thinking. I am not claiming to be a great theologian, instead my knowledge is very poor. However i do have the capacity to organise and present the church in its full glory and to expanse truth.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I wish someone would step forward as well, and not try to play the political correctness game within the church. I keep wondering when the church is going to get back to the basics of the church as depicted in the Book of Acts - evangelizing yes, but taking care of the people who are being won to Christ, yet, for lack of follow-up are being lost. :bible:

[Woody]

Hi Truthseeker.

Your love for the church is evident by your willingness to do what you can. Praise God for that. But, you ideas seem grandiose to me. And sometimes when you have such high thoughts ... that can send you down into discouragement when it doesn't happen.

My understanding of the end times .... is that things get worse rather then better. So, perhaps it is not in God's plans for you to accomplish what you have in mind.

However, I think your to be commended. I just hate to see you discouraged that YOUR plans are not accomplished.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Redwood thank you for your response but i disagree with you on this matter. Correct me if i am wrong but are you saying that we should take a defensive position regarding our faith? I think that nowadays we should fight as never before a spiritual fight. I am not talking about military power, money and posessions but i am talking about the words that are able to heal sick minds and unite us as a worldwide people. Of course, while we are in this world we are to suffer according to the flesh, but to prosper according to the spirit. It is this kind of being rich what it is talking about in Revelation. I firmly believe that Jesus wants us to take an offensive stance concerning our faith and conquer the world. That s why i am frustrated because if this is really God s will, then why doesn t he answer me? The institutionalisation and organising of the power of the SDA departments/scientists/theologians etc. is not a goal itself but rather a worldwide powerfull tool to enlighten the broken souls of a fallen mankind. Should we holdback the tools that are most hated by the devil in order to gain a false sense of comfort? Should a doctor posessing all kinds of medicines hold back these tools because the body is supposed to endure the consequences of sin? I think not.

Now what makes me feel terrible is this; i am always talking about how things should be like, while at the same time i am not working on these goals for several reasons. Depressions got me captured once in a while, addictions hold me in a mental prison and my lack of faith is destroying everything i have created in my head. IF there is a God, it is absolutely necessary that he makes himself known unto me so i can act.

[Lineman]

TS wrote:

Quote:

I will follow my heart

Not a good idea my friend.

Quote:

Jeremiah 17:9

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

[Guest truthseeker007]

Lineman i don t know whether you are right. Maybe that verse doesn t apply to these times in the place where i am living. I wish there was a God I could love and serve with all my heart. Kind of like Malcolm X who prayed 5 times a day and didn t eat pork. I know now that there are only 2 options. Either i serve God with all my heart and i give up every lust of the flesh. This is very very difficult for someone like me. The lust of the flesh works like a medicin against depression. What if i gave up all my porn, tv programs, flesh etc. Then there is nothing left but my depression. It cuts through my soul like a knife.

The other option is to become an atheist or come to the conclusion that somehow God is very different than people have described him in the bible. Statistically this seems the best option considering the fact that only 15 millions souls from the more than 8000 million people are seventh day adventists. However those other religions don t make sense, while the sda faith does make sense. If i choose this option, then there is no God to serve and dedicate my heart to. I ve tried this option and it makes me terribly unhappy.

I don t know what to do. I know that i cannot come back to church again because they ll say stuff about me like "you are not a real Christian etc. etc." And yes i think they are right. I am a disgrace to the church. That s why i can never become baptised. It is so hard to do this all alone. There is nobody i can talk to and get my support. To be honest with you, sometimes i am constantly checking this message board to see whether somebody has answered me so my loneliness disappears for a moment. And sometimes a simple response can really help me for a while. I would like to ask anybody who reads this something. Please, please ask your pastor to pray for me. I really want to get baptised and live a disciplined life but if i try and i fall back i have become a disgrace to the church, God and myself. Also i am too shy to step forward to somebody and ask if i could become baptised. I am so afraid to give a speech to people i don t know, who don t know what i ve been through. What should i do? I don t have the courage to step forward and make a decision. I geuss i am a coward. But i don t know why because i ve got nothing to lose?

Please somebody help me!

[Woody]

Truthseeker .... Praise God for you and your honesty here. It is much appreciated that you are SO REAL.

We love you.

And you can be certain that MY Pastor knows all about you. What you write here is shared. And we both are praying for you.

[Woody]

Just so you know ...

We ALL disappoint God. So you are not alone. Sin is Sin. Just one sin causes the curse of the Law to condemn you. So, we are all in the same boat. The boat is that we need Jesus to cover us with His robe.

I am praying that Jesus will cover you and fill you with the knowledge that He loves you just as you are. And He welcomes you to the Body of Christ. He wants to give you that confidence.

[Woody]

Just so you know ...

We all give Glory to God also. You have and DO give Glory to God ... you just can't see it through the cloud of wanting to do much more glorious things and your depression about your confusion.

But if you step in the water ... God will make a way where there seemed to be no way. He will fill you with assurance. He will be your all. And then what little you give will not be the focus but be all sufficient.

[Gail]

Truthseeker, you are not a disgrace to anyone! You are a person just like me or anyone else on this earth.

I pray for you continually. Your struggle is not so different from ours. We are all tempted on the exact thing that is our weakness. It is at this time, when you cannot pray for yourself, that Jesus can help.

Admitting that those sins of yours are filling an emptiness is the first step. Leave yourself in God's hands. Offer yourself to Him. There is no other power on earth that will help you with the things that are hindering your happiness.

Every time that you fall, look to Jesus and start again right from where you are. It is a process that we all go through each time when we ourselves fall.

You may need one of Jesus' helpers to help you with your depression, like a doctor or a pastor. But here you have many friends. You can talk out whatever is on your mind. We are here with hugs for you and encouraging words :)

[John317]

... I know now that there are only 2 options. Either i serve God with all my heart and i give up every lust of the flesh. This is very very difficult for someone like me. The lust of the flesh works like a medicin against depression. What if i gave up all my porn, tv programs, flesh etc. Then there is nothing left but my depression. It cuts through my soul like a knife.

It's very likely that if you gave your whole heart and life over to God, you would not experience the kinds of depression you have today. Three of the fruits of the Spirit are joy, peace, and self-control. It isn't an ecstasy or high, but a quiet joy and peace.

You might need some other help, because I don't know all of your problems, but I know that the Holy Spirit in the life makes a huge difference in the kinds of things you're talking about.

Quote:

I really want to get baptised and live a disciplined life but if i try and i fall back i have become a disgrace to the church, God and myself. Also i am too shy to step forward to somebody and ask if i could become baptised.

I think the important thing for you to do now is simply attend church on the Sabbath and find some good friendship and fellowship there. You will find people who will pray and study with you and give you spiritual encouragement. You might request for the pastor, elder, or Bible worker to come study with you.

Faith increases through study and hearing the word of God. If we don't study it, we can't really expect our faith and trust in God to increase.

Do you live near a large city where there are a number of Adventist churches?

[phkrause]

First off truthseeker you are not a coward. If you were you would not continually come back to this forum and put yourself out there. I don't always like the way you say things but that's your right. How long have you been going to an adventist church? Have you had any baptismal classes or not? Do you have any other churches in the area that you can go to? If not just continue to go to the one you have been going to and just hold your head up high because believe it or not God still and always will love you. And your other church members are the losers if they can't be kind and excepting of you as a child of God. I don't know how to behave when you are in the present's of God. You know that when you are in church you should always be respectful of others. I will talk to a Pastor friend of mine this Sabbath about you. If you like I'll send you his email address if it's OK with him. Let me know what you think. I remember that you will always be on our pray list no matter what you do.

pk

[Guest truthseeker007]

Thanks Redwood for sharing this with your pastor. It means a lot to me. Especially when i realise that pastors must be very close with God. I am wondering, why is it tempting to do the wrong stuff? I geuss that means that i haven t been through the sanctifying proces yet. I cannot save myself. I have done so many terrible things that Jesus is as far from me like the east is from the west. That s why i am totally dependant on you guys. You are way closer with God than me.

Gail i know i must try over and over again not to disappoint God or myself, but this is an endless proces in which i don t make much progress. I have tried it for about a year and i ve failed over and over again. And i think it is caused by a lack of faith. You know, sometimes i really feel like i want to get closer to God and dedicate everything to him and it makes me able to live according to the spirit for a while. But then there are those depressions inside my head telling me there is no God, telling me that he is not righteous, etc. etc. It is like everytime i want to get closer to God, somebody is torturing me inside my head and causing depressions. Like somebody is living inside me next to me. He tells me that as long as i forget about the bible and start following my heart everything will be alright. But everytime i do this, i feel emptiness inside and i want to get back to the bible and to God. And everytime i come closer to God, the torturing of my soul becomes worse and worse. So for more than a year now i have been living in cycles of atheism (feeling empty) and religion (feeling depressed). Why can t i be just religious without getting depressed?Why are there so many happy smiling faces in the church and am i the one who can t be like that?

[Guest truthseeker007]

Thanks John and Pkrause. There is only one church in my city. There are a lot of nice people there, and there are also some other people who don t really like me. I am not very good at expressing my feelings, troubles etc. to others and i am also shy. So when somebody says something to me, i don t respond and i ve lost contact with that person, causing me to be lonely. When i come to church and i go away, everybody knows each other while i am alone. Then i feel rejected and sad. One day a lady said that if i had troubles i wanted to talk about, i could come to her, but i ignored her offer, thinking that she really couldn t make a difference. John is right, i need the holy spirit. Sometimes when i do bible stuff i feel different, like God is with me or something like that. Mabe it is the holy spirit, it gives me rest, insight and gives me my feelings back. But as soon as i start to doubt about my faith, a cloud of depression is bursting inside of my head, washing away every progress i made. PKrause i am desparately seeking for every means possible to end my endless cycles for once and for all. If i could get the email of your pastor friend that would be great. I really appreciate your help. Thanks.