Not so serious anymore

[Gail]

Truthseeker, Satan is giving you the bad thoughts that you do not want. You can choose not to listen to him. He is only tempting you and teasing (tormenting) you.

You know that those thoughts are bad. You know what is the result of listening to them. You may have to unlearn them.

What works well against those is to replace those thoughts with God's promises in Scripture. Instead of focusing on Satan's lies, reply to those lies with a promise that has hope for you. Collect those promises. No matter how negative you feel, your thoughts do not change God's love for you.

You can find some promises that I have shared in the Theology section. Can you see them?

Write down the ones that speak to you. If you believe that the Bible is God's Word to us, then you can believe those promises are for YOU.

[phkrause]

Its definitly the Holy Spirit, this is who Jesus said was going to be with us when he left this world. I know what you mean about being shy and talking to people. But I'm very sad to hear that the people in your church don't even acknowledge that you are there. I'm guessing that its a SDA church! And like I said I will talk to my pastor friend this sabbath. He is a teacher at AUC in the theology department there and is the facilitator of our sabbath school class. Take care and be strong, God loves you. And he sent his son to die for you, don't ever forget that.

pk

[Gail]

Yes, the Holy Spirit is the Comforter. That is one of his jobs!

[Guest truthseeker007]

"Satan is giving you the bad thoughts that you do not want. You can choose not to listen to him. He is only tempting you and teasing (tormenting) you"

I have thought about this sometimes. Especially since i have been involved in occultism. I used to be able to read the minds of others, (telepathy), astral projection, illumination etc. He probably knows me better than i know myself. But the thoughts in my head, that are fighting against my faith, sound so reasonable and true that i cannot resist them. Then i turn into anger and blaspheme God, blaming him for everything, calling him names etc.

Yes i think i have experienced the holy spirit sometimes. When i am angry and depressed i don t have any feelings at all. No matter how much i want my feelings back, it just doesn t happen. But when i am busy studying my faith or when i am sitting in the church, i feel like crying so much. IN the church i sometimes have to beg God in my thoughts not to let me cry, because then the whole church will look at me. That s not a very pleasant situation for a shy guy like me. When i feel like crying i feel that this si necessary to neutralise all the pain that i have stored somewhere in the back of my lower levels of consciousness. So it is a good thing.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I know it's been said before, but I want to emphasize it: you need to talk to someone one-on-one. Especially if you've been involved in the world of the occult, there is no substitute for face-to-face pastoral counseling and Bible study. You can get a taste of help here on the forum but it won't be enough, IMHO.

The problem, though, is that many (most?) pastors do not have training in counseling - not the kind of counseling that you might require.. Bible study and prayer are good and they can work miracles in people's lives, but at a certain point, one might need additional professional counseling.

Just my opinion hailing as a former witch herself.

[John317]

... You know, sometimes i really feel like i want to get closer to God and dedicate everything to him and it makes me able to live according to the spirit for a while. But then there are those depressions inside my head telling me there is no God, telling me that he is not righteous, etc. etc. It is like everytime i want to get closer to God, somebody is torturing me inside my head and causing depressions. Like somebody is living inside me next to me. He tells me that as long as i forget about the bible and start following my heart everything will be alright. But everytime i do this, i feel emptiness inside and i want to get back to the bible and to God. And everytime i come closer to God, the torturing of my soul becomes worse and worse....

There's a battle going on over you, Truthseeker. I strongly urge you to tell God you realize you desperately need help and to lead you to a Bible-believing pastor who will understand your problem and deal with it. God knows what is going on in your life and He knows that you are helpless to do anything about it yourself apart from the work of the Holy Spirit, prayer, and working with a godly pastor who recognizes your problem and knows how to deal with it. I know that God will help you but you must come to the point where you realize you can't do it and you're willing to surrender your whole life to Him.

Please know that there are many here at the Forum who are praying for you. You're not alone, my friend. Don't give up! I struggled myself for over 30 years, not exactly like your own struggle, but similar in some ways, and I am here to assure you that there are solutions and answers.

[John317]

...The problem, though, is that many (most?) pastors do not have training in counseling - not the kind of counseling that you might require.. Bible study and prayer are good and they can work miracles in people's lives, but at a certain point, one might need additional professional counseling.

Excellent point. This deserves to be emphasized over again.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Rudy i don t think there is anybody i can talk to about these matters. But i am wondering, how did you break free? Did you also have to wrestle with depressions and intelligent voices inside your head? Maybe you can help me.

John thanks for your advice but i can t talk to my local pastor about this. He kind of makes a judgemental impression to me and i am too shy to talk about this. Furthermore, i am a little bit autistic. I know what i want to say, but in real life i just can t say it.

But thanks for your intentions. This board really helps me sometimes by the way. it is always good to be here.

[Gail]

((( Truthseeker )))

[Lineman]

TS, you wrote a comment about Jeremiah 17:9 which says, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?".

Quote:

Lineman i don t know whether you are right. Maybe that verse doesn t apply to these times in the place where i am living. I wish there was a God I could love and serve with all my heart.

I am sure you know that this is a true comment. None of us can follow our own hearts. You can see what has happened in your own life when you do. You have seen over and over that it eventually causes all kinds of problems. Sure, there maybe some "good", some fun, seen right at the beginning each time, but the end result is NEVER good, right? Sin is fun for awhile, but the end is death to everyone who plays with it.

The Devil wants us to believe that doing things our own way is a good thing, that we are "free" that way. What he never tells us is that his way (our way) is the way to total distruction. He does not care about us, except it is his desire to hurt us in anywy that hurts Jesus.

You and I talked about steps to take to come to Jesus. Remember the quote from Steps to Christ that said,

Quote:

The sinner may resist [God's] love, may refuse to be drawn to Christ; but if he does not resist he will be drawn to Jesus.

? It really is that simple.

I agree that sometimes we need to talk face to face with someone we can trust (God did say that it is not good for man to be alone.), but sometimes that is not an option and it sounds like maybe this is one of those times, at least for now. Just keep in mind that when God sends help it is wise to "take hold of the rope" and let Him do for you what you cannot do for yourself.

Someone earlier mentioned that studying your Bible and listening to people talk (preach) God's word is the way to gain faith in Him. There is nothing better than listening to a preacher on the radio, TV, internet, tape/CD or whatever if you cannot study the Bible for yourself right now. Another way to keep from feeling depressed is to find something God has made for our happiness and get yourself involved in learning about that.

I may have told you this already, but as an example, years ago I was asked to look into the Hubble Space Telescope. Once I saw the pictures it had been taking I got really excited and couldn't help myself (so to speak). I began to think about how a Being could be so powerful as to create all of that and at the sametime care about me. It did not seem possible, but then I began to realize that there is NO WAY that here could not be a God like that. I began to think about what it will be like to visit other planets: what their sky would look like, what we will do there, what we might find that doesn't even exist here, etc. I found that the more I "read" God's book of nature the more I came to love and respect Him.

I wanted to share what I have learned and so I made several presentations and put them on the internet so that people will become excited about Him like I am. Here is an HTML version of one of them: The Universe or the PowerPoint version can be seen here: The Universe Presentation

You should find lots more

[Neil D]

TS,

Who are you?

What do you want to be?

If you are wanting to be a Christian, then seek it, grab it and don't let it go...

What are you doing, facilitating? If you want to be God's child, then ask Him into your heart....If you have doubts about your conversion, ASK HIM AGAIN! But don't doubt that He has left you.

But rest assured, He will NEVER leave you nor forsake you....Rest assured, and be glad- He loves you and cares for you in the most tenderest of manners.

Since you have asked him, remember, He is your Lord. As your Lord, HE will direct your way....If you don't know the way, ASK HIM. and then get up off your knees and go out the door....

But whatever you do, do not doubt that God is leading you....Sometimes you just need a good walk around the block to get your head thinking again....But don't whine.....

He is your Lord. Believe that your Lord knows what He is doing for you...and YOU GO DO IT! And quit whining! God is looking out for you....believe it and live it, and express it.

And your life will begin to change...

[John317]

I wanted to share what I have learned and so I made several presentations and put them on the internet so that people will become excited about Him like I am. Here is an HTML version of one of them: The Universe

Wonderful, amazing show, Lineman. Thank you for sharing that. Hard to grasp how immense the whole universe is and how tiny we are by comparison, but that certainly helps.

[cardw]

Quote:

i am too shy to talk about this. Furthermore, i am a little bit autistic. I know what i want to say, but in real life i just can t say it.

Truthseeker,

I have been in the places where I was really angry with all these people who claimed to have certainty about God and the Bible. The truth is, no body knows for certain. I think that is what made me angry. It seemed dishonest for people to claim certainty when there was absolutely no evidence of certainty.

People have a lot of reasons for wanting certainty. And maybe that is what you are asking for. For me, there certainly is no certainty about the claims of the bible about God. And I have discovered that many of those who claim to have certainty aren't doing it out of being malicious, but are basing their certainty on personal experience, which may provide a certain level of comfort for some folks, but certainly not me.

I have learned that much of the pain and anger goes away once I learned to live with uncertainty and quit being so self centered. Much of this religious stuff teaches people to be self centered because it teaches us to examine our selves all the time in terms of judgement.

I think self discovery is great when you drop all the judgement. It is more about curiosity than about trying to please some invisible god or use the right magic to control some mythical Satan. There are plenty of interesting pursuits to go after in this life and many of the most interesting help others and make this world a better place to live in. I have found those pursuits to be the best place to put my energy.

If you are struggling with addictive behaviors, many of those are rooted in resentments and fear. And many of these fears and resentments are driven by self centeredness and compulsive self examination.

The one thing the Bible does offer is the philosophy of Jesus and one of the brilliant aspects of his message is to stop judging yourself and others. Its self destructive to keep trying to measure up and be "good enough." Its also a complete waste of time and energy.

Try looking outside yourself without judging things and learn to enjoy life. Stop trying to think your way out of impossible to solve questions. Learn how to rest in not knowing and learn how to enjoy many of the subjective experiences of life that involve feeling, moving, tasting, and imagining. This is where the richness of life dwells.

And if you do question, do it from a sense of curiosity. Often Christianity discourages questioning because doubt is seen as an evil thing. Well its healthy to doubt because doubt can prevent us from being taken advantage of. The other problem that Christianity often creates is that the search for truth is done in a life or death context rather than a feeling of exploration. One is lived out through fear and the other is lived out through adventure.

So, I encourage you to seek those things that bring joy to your life and if you want to know what brings you joy, you need to know how to feel.

[John317]

... This board really helps me sometimes by the way. it is always good to be here.

Check this out and see if there's anything here for you. There just could be, and I'll be praying for you, that you will find the peace your heart is really longing for:

http://tabsbibleschool.com/index.php

What you said yesterday on another thread about the need of people in the church being united and together is really so true and so important. You came up with a great thought there! Maybe we can persuade everyone to put into practice now. No more putting people into various categories. I'm all for it.

[Guest truthseeker007]

Lineman thanks for your support. I ve checked out your site and i think it is wonderfull. When i think about the universe i am always wondering where the universe ends and whether there are more universes. Time and space are fascinating.

Neil thanks for your encouragement. But when i look back at the things i have been through i have to admit that it is still hard to believe that God cares about me. On the other hand, at least i am able to sleep at night. IN the old days i was too scared because i felt the presence of entities in my room giving me out of body experiences, lucid dreams etc. Maybe God still cares for me just a little bit.

CardW, by your reply i can see that you have been through similar struggles like me. Unfortunately i learned about the church by legalists and the critics of the church. I thought that God wanted me to have perfect knowledge and that i would live perfect and if i would not succeed i would be damned to hell. I agree with you on the idea that religion is something personal. We should all respect each other within certain boundaries. I ve made the decision not to carry anymore unnecessary burdens with me. I cannot be perfect.

You are right about being celf-centred as being a wrong thing. A bird can freeze to death without feeling self compassion. I wish i was like that, but somehow i ain t able to get my focus off myself. I don t know how to deal with this. Maybe somebody got some tips. Just thinking about something else when i am feeling depressed won t work and is not a final solution.

[Neil D]

Quote:

Neil thanks for your encouragement. But when i look back at the things i have been through i have to admit that it is still hard to believe that God cares about me. On the other hand, at least i am able to sleep at night. IN the old days i was too scared because i felt the presence of entities in my room giving me out of body experiences, lucid dreams etc. Maybe God still cares for me just a little bit.

If you are having struggles, I wouldn't worry...That means that God is still interested in you...He causing the doubt of the doubt [iOW, MAYBE it's true!!!]

Go to Him...argue and talk...but decide...Decide how you will act and HE will give you strength to do it. My God will supply your every need.

[Lineman]

When i think about the universe i am always wondering where the universe ends and whether there are more universes. Time and space are fascinating.

[Woody]

Quote:

"Our Saviour has been lifted up upon the cross of Calvary, and the love of Christ shining from the cross speaks constantly to the sinner of the sufferings of Jesus for fallen man. His love for the fallen race constantly draws sinners to him. The transgressor may resist this love, may refuse to be drawn to Christ; but if he does not resist, he will be drawn to Jesus ... " Ellen White Signs of the Times, August 11, 1890 par. 2

[Neil D]

Quote:

"Our Saviour has been lifted up upon the cross of Calvary, and the love of Christ shining from the cross speaks constantly to the sinner of the sufferings of Jesus for fallen man. His love for the fallen race constantly draws sinners to him. The transgressor may resist this love, may refuse to be drawn to Christ; but if he does not resist, he will be drawn to Jesus ... " Ellen White Signs of the Times, August 11, 1890 par. 2

Good quote, Redwood....We need more people who can tell that story a bit more...and some willing to try to tell it....

[cardw]

Quote:

Unfortunately i learned about the church by legalists and the critics of the church.

This is what your anger is for. It is great for setting boundaries. Are you going to let these church legalists and critics determine who you are and what you are choosing to be about?

Use your anger to say NO!! Depression is just anger trying to be polite and is basically a smoke screen.

Quote:

You are right about being celf-centred as being a wrong thing. A bird can freeze to death without feeling self compassion. I wish i was like that, but somehow i ain t able to get my focus off myself. I don t know how to deal with this. Maybe somebody got some tips. Just thinking about something else when i am feeling depressed won t work and is not a final solution.

The reason this doesn't work is because it is using your thinking to solve your feelings. Thinking is great when you already know what you want. It helps you to carry it out, but it can't tell you how to feel or what you want.

If you try to use your thinking to tell you what you want, you just get stuck in judgement about what you should want.

Take the pressure off and take your time. Let go of the need to evaluate and judge everything. Listen to your feelings without needing to make any decisions. Explore and look at the evidence and stay with an attitude of "I don't know" until you discover what you need to know. Learn how to know with both your heart and your mind.

Some great books that provide some things to do are, "The Artist Way" by Susan Cameron and the Big Book, the guide for AA. You may not be an alcoholic, but if you want to learn how to stop being self centered, there are few things better than the 12 steps done with a skilled sponsor.

One of the sayings that I apply to my life is, "No Change is evidence of No Change." Another guide that I use is, "Be rigorously honest, do my best, and let go of the outcomes."

[Guest truthseeker007]

Lineman i can totally recognize myself in your questions regarding the universe. I have asked myself those questions over and over again. It is incomprehensible, whether you are an atheist or a theist, to know that there has always been some kind of energy. We believe it is God, evolutionary scientists believe it is something else. But this fact is mind boggling. How can some things have always been there without a beginning? Is it possible that God was created by cosmic energy by accident? Then where did this energy come from? Is there a God above our God? Or is God a being without form? These are the most interesting questions about humanity and only a few people pay attention to them. I have decided to let God do the work. All my efforts were fruitless. I will pray and try to do the right stuff, no matter how many times i fall and stumble, i ll get up and struggle along until i gave my last breath.

Card W I wanted to get to know the church by studying the fundamentalist SDA people and the best critics of the SDA church because these two extremes can easily be compared to each other in order to decide whether the SDA church has the truth or not. In my own research i have concluded that the SDA church is indeed Gods remnant church. This is the first phase in my quest for truth. But now it is important that i realize that i ain t there yet. I must realize that God is only reserved for a few chosen ones and that every other believer will burn in hell because they worship on sunday. Only when the conditions in this planet has changed dramatically and God gives a clear and sound warning to every people on this planet, the mark of the beast can be applied by sunday worshippers. If not, God wouldn t be just and all my efforts to get to know God were just wastefull energy. I believe in a good God and i think that many legalists in the church have lost their hearts and they take people like me into their sphere of influence. People always use particular writings to support extreme points of view. This extremism distroys the people and the soul. I would go as far as to say that legalists, exclusivists and extreme liberals are as dangerous to the soul as are the deceptions of satan, for in essence a lot of these characteristics are satanic. i am glad i can always come here and you receive me with open arms, so i can get to know the real SDA church as it is supposed to be. I am quite the opposite of Rush4hour who seems not to feel home on this board because we don t absorb his unscientific conspiracy theories as facts. I say it is good not to accept outrageous theories because, we as a people, will lose our credibility entirely and thereby we destroy the chances of the wise and down-to-earth people. Extremism is Never good, not in politics, nor in religion. So what is extremism? Is believing in a big bang and the evolutionary processes by which everything came into being because of chance an extreme? I think it is, but what is extremism for this world, is not extreme in the bible.

[Guest truthseeker007]

God is NOT only reserved (correction)

[Lineman]

truthseeker wrote:

Quote:

I have decided to let God do the work. All my efforts were fruitless. I will pray and try to do the right stuff, no matter how many times i fall and stumble, i ll get up and struggle along until i gave my last breath.

PRAISE GOD! You have just made my day! I was just thinking about how many times we all fall and stumble, but the awesome thing is that when we "let God do all the work" then it is up to Him anyway, and when we fall and stumble He will pick us up again and again. Just be sure to keep your eyes looking at Him, not at people. (People like us will disappoint you, unfortunately. I wish it was not true.)

You wrote above:

Quote:

I will pray and try to do the right stuff

Praying is good, but when we "try to do the right stuff" we are in trouble because like you said, all our efforts are fruitless. We are bound to fail when we try to do it ourselves. Just keep telling Him to do whatever it is that He wants to do in your life and you will be both amazed and pleased.

That's one thing about the Christian life that is so very hard for all of us to come to grips with. The fact that we cannot do any part of this salvation thing is the hardest thing for me (us) to understand, but it's true. Something I read once, written by Ellen White in The Desire of Ages, was so encourageing to me. She was talking about the time just after the Transfiguration when she wrote:

Quote:

Cast yourself at His feet with the cry, "Lord, I believe; help Thou mine unbelief." You can never perish while you do this--never.

She also wrote:[quaote]In Christ, God has provided means for subduing every sinful trait, and resisting every temptation, however strong. But many feel that they lack faith, and therefore they remain away from Christ. Let these souls, in their helpless unworthiness, cast themselves upon the mercy of their compassionate Savior. Look not to self, but to Christ. He who healed the sick and cast out demons when He walked among men is the same mighty Redeemer today. Faith comes by the word of God. Then grasp His promise, "Him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37.

[Lineman]

By the way, you may find this quote to be encourageing too:

Quote:

"The Father's presence encircled Christ, and nothing befell Him but that which infinite love permitted for the blessing of the world. Here was His source of comfort, and it is for us. He who is imbued with the Spirit of Christ abides in Christ. The blow that is aimed at him falls upon the Savior, who surrounds him with His presence. Whatever comes to him comes from Christ. He has no need to resist evil, for Christ is his defense. Nothing can touch him except by our Lord's permission, and 'all things" that are permitted "work together for good to them that love God.' Romans 8:28. "

Thoughts from the Mount of Blessing, page 71

[Lineman]

Hey TS,

Just thought I'd remind you that:

*This will be the easiest thing you've ever done because you do nothing.

*This will be the hardest thing you've ever done because you do nothing.

Hope your day goes well.