Headin to GYC tomorrow...

[there buster]

Quote:

it has been often observed that the Adventists most likely to be involved and disturbed by the unrest of the 1980’s, centering around the work of Walter Rea, the Brinsmead brothers, and Desmond ford were multiple generation members.

Well, you could be further off base, but it would be difficult. Yes, my family have been Adventists for several generations, but I was not in the least 'disturbed' by Walter Rea, the Brinsmeads, or Desmond Ford.

I know many who were, and they often held doctrinal positions indistinguishable from those of the GYC gurus. For example, verbal inspiration of Ellen White and the Bible (I have multiple citations). The more one believes in verbal inspiration, the more convincing Rea and Numbers are. The more one holds to Ellen White's own understanding of inspiration, the less convincing they are.

[delta]

A Testimony and concern due to serious attacks of GYC Adventist Youth Movement, brilliant attacks that hiding in the name of "Concern of LEGALISM"

Dear Brotherrs and Sisters:

Yesterday at slightly before noon, the seventh annual GYC convocation came to an end. From my perspective, it was the best of the movement's annual conferences since the inaugural one in December 2002.

Those on our List who were able to watch on 3ABN have doubtless already sampled the powerful impact of the plenary meetings. I would urge all to go to www.Audioverse.org and download as many of the sermons and seminar lectures as possible. It was announced as the conference closed that this year's sermons are already available from that venue.

There may be disputes as to the numbers who gathered in San Jose, but without question the opening night (Wednesday, Dec. 17) had already exceeded the maximum Sabbath attendance last year in Minneapolis, which was slightly less than 3,000. (The cold and remoteness of last year's site may have contributed to the drop in

attendance.) The total of chairs set up in the main hall was 5,700, according to one GYC officer who spoke with me. Somewhere between one half and two-thirds of these chairs were filled on opening night, by my estimate. Sabbath morning, for the divine service, I walked back to the rear of the hall and estimated, altogether, that no more than 100-200 chairs remained empty. Which means this year's maximum attendance certainly topped 5,500, by far the largest in the movement's history.

The theme for this conference was, "For This Purpose," very likely enscnonced forever in the hearts of GYC devotees by the newly-composed theme song. For those who haven't heard it, it is a stirring call to consecration and service, destined perhaps to be the anthem of a generation. I was informed that presently the plan is for this song, titled "For This Purpose," to be the movement's theme song from henceforth.

The keynote address Wednesday night, Dec. 17, was delivered by Justin McNeilus, president of GYC. It focused on the movement's need not to be distracted from its mission and to maintain its agenda despite enticing or hostile forces. A fitting and powerful start to the conference.

The morning devotionals, delivered by Justin Kim (one of the movement's founders and now a Michigan Conference pastor) developed further the keynoter's theme, dwelling on the history of past reformatory movements (both sacred and secular) and the lessons GYC can learn from them. He even spoke of the role of the young in the

recent U.S. presidential campaign, and how young people within Adventism can also be agents of reformatory change. He closed his series on Sunday morning with the use of the late Robert Pierson's appeal to the church at his retirement from the GC presidency in 1978, where he implored the church not to let the trends of liberalism and apostasy modify its message and witness. It was an appropriate finale as the conference neared its end. This speaker also noted that it is not important for GYC to fit the stereotypes of either the liberal or the conservative labels in the church, only that we must be faithful to God's Word. If that makes us either conservative or liberal in the eyes of others, Justin said, so be it.

By far the most piercing and provocative messages were the evening devotionals delivered by Randy Skeete. I especially urge our List members to download these from Audioverse. Randy's focus was on practical holiness and victory over sin, especially in his final message Saturday night. At his Thursday night meeting he even called

for a public commitment from those currently dating non-Adventists to immediately break off these relationships, perhaps reminescent of Ezra's demand from the people of Judah in his day regarding intermarriage with the heathen. I was frankly amazed at how many came forward. Not a huge group, to be sure, but somewhere between 20 and 30 at least. (Adventist young people who date and marry outside the church don't generally come to GYC!) What it demonstrated, perhaps as much as anything, is how much the movement is now reaching past its base and drawing attendees from the mainstream of youthful Adventism. Concern was expressed about this by some of the movement's leaders, but so long as those guiding GYC and planning its programs remain true to Bible-based Adventism, it is my hope that we continue to draw more and more of what some are calling the "mixed multitude."

The seminars this year included an excellent one on Ellen White's authority, called "White Out," conducted by Pastor Mark Howard of the Michigan Conference. It focused largely on the issues raised by Graeme Bradford, which the present writer has addressed at length on GCO. Doug Batchelor did one on victory over sin, another focused on music and worship, and still another addressed the problem of Adventist youth in the military. Others dealt with relationships, finances, and a variety of other topics. For the most part, those I was able to attend were of sterling quality.

The music at the conference was especially glorious, devoid of any glitches or misjudgments in program planning. (At rare moments in the past there have been problems here. None this time.) The Fountainview Academy choir and orchestra were especially inspiring. (This group has produced some excelent music DVDs which I would recommend to all, and which can be purchased from <fountainview,ca>)

Many of the hymns sung at this year's GYC were the early Advent ones, which I especially enjoyed. The passion with which attendees sang these sturdy old anthems from our heritage again belied the absurdity that the youth of today can't be inspired by traditional forms of music.

Witnessing on Sabbath afternoon garnereed hundreds of Bible study interests under a cold, clear sun. Indeed, the conference attendees were witnessing at many other times as well, even after the meetings ended. After my brother-in-law came to pick me up at the hotel (I am writing this from his home in Half Moon Bay, CA), he and I stopped for lunch at a vegan Chinese restaurant in San Jose. It wasn't long before GYC young people descended on the place as they left the convention site. After lumch, they made sure every guest and every

staff member in the restaurant received some of our literature! It was glorious to see and be part of!

In all, the movement is clearly advancing to a higher level in numbers and impact, with the lions of Adventist liberalism noticeably trembling in their dens at its approach. Ferocious opposition to GYC from members of the youth ministry establishment and liberals throughout First World Adventism has been a major hallmark of the movement's saga this past year. Thankfully, advertising for this year's conrference proceeded on a growing number of mainline SDA campuses with minimal opposition from faculty and administration. Since quite a number of our colleges and universities had booths at this year's conference, it is going to be increasingly hard for campus officials to ban advertising for GYC in the future.

But the dragon is wroth, and getting more so. Indeed, I was informed by the wife of a faculty member from Walla Walla who was present in San Jose that a prominent liberal theologian on that campus (who shall be nameless) stated at a recent faculty meeting that GYC had to be stopped from getting a foothold on their campus, or else (in his view) the young people there at Walla Walla will end up in "legalism." Let us pray such comments are the gasps of a dying order.

Next year, GYC will be held in Louisville, KY, and its theme will be "Unashamed." Let us pray the youthful leaders of this cause will continue to lift high the banner of truth and eschew compromise as their numbers swell. This movement may well succeed in provoking the ultimate confrontation in Adventism between those seeking to restore our original faith and those seeking to depart from it. In the end, it will all culminate in the final conflict, as events in both the church and the world grow more serious. The future will not be gentle

to the faint of heart. Let us especially pray for these young people, as often as we can.

May the Lord find us faithful!

God bless!

*Name covered*

[Neil D]

After reading this, I am amazed that the audacity of the writer. To be "a part of something " is to be involved, participate....and this writer did not participate, but rather watched as other did the work...and yet this person claims to be involved....

I always seem to see, when some branch of the church claims victory, a pattern of report...The number of people at this congregation, the quality of sermons, the number of famous people within Adventism that attend these things...

There is always the call for "victory over sin" and, whether we know it or not, of purity....It reminds me of germany when the youth were extolled to be pure germans and not to intermingle thier bloodlines with non-germans...Why do I get a bad feeling about these meetings...???

Victory, Victory, Victory is all I hear in these sermons.

And yet, I remember the words of my Savior, " Occupy til I come."...And they will know you by your love....

I have seen love, a good love from Adventists, and a reflected love from pagans...I have seen the exclusions from adventists [thank goodness, it is not from the same loving Adventists] and I have seen hatred in the form of religious exclusions, religious love, and a sense of devotion to religious values. I fear from what this writers says that a religious hatred is coming into the church all in the name of religion.

[Taylor]

I have seen conferences making arrangements for buses to take any young people or not so young people if they wish to a GYC or a GC session. There have been many a conference president, church leader, General Conference representatives who have spoken, well-known evangelists who have spoken at every GYC, wealthy ASI members who own large successful businesses. I have not heard of any hatred of any kind.

I am sure there is opposition...there is ALWAYS opposition to ANYTHING to no matter if it is becuase "the music is too rocked out" or "they are too conservative" or "their theology is lacking" or "their theology is too restrictive" or whatever. There will be opposition to every type of meeting on the face of the earth. People are free to disagree with anything they wish to disagree with because thankfully we live in North America. If the church were trying to put a stop to GYC or even "liberal meetings" of any kind you would not see their key empolyees as spakers and supporters of either. People are free to choose. We have a democratic church where people are free to follow their conscience. I think it is best to not play the martyer but to do whatever God has called us each one individually to do and leave the rest up to God. Sure we can pray for the success of whatever our projects or our ideals or our convictions are, but leave the rest up to God.

Just my 2 cents.

[olger]

Thanks Ed. i am glad that you remained faithful through that trying time.

oG

[Woody]

I like your statement that we should be able to choose Taylor. And I think that is what some here are suggesting. Right now there is no option for those who are turned off by the teaching of the GYC. There ought to be an option . We ought to be able to choose as you have suggested. Just being presented one doctrine or side is not healthy. This doctrine being presented is manipulative and anti-Gospel. Some of us reject it and are opposed to it and ought to have an alternative to such teachings. Our church is divided in two camps. The legalists have their meeting and so it would seem only right that the other half of the Adventist Church be represented by having a meeting for them.

[there buster]

Quote:

If the church were trying to put a stop to GYC or even "liberal meetings" of any kind you would not see their key empolyees as spakers and supporters of either.

If the church was monolithic, or had a papal style authority, that might be true. But the church, and 'key employees' come in all varieties, some with strong personal agendas. Plus, the church is the people, and 15 million people cannot be simply moved this way or that by fiat. There is always a battle of influences within the church.

At present, and probably always, the battle is not evenly matched. Slogans are easier to promote than concepts, and a call for return to earlier days always sounds like reformation and revival. But nostalgia isn't what it used to be. If the church used to be so much better, why are we not all translated and in heaven?

There is a strong fundamentalist, verbal inspiration movement within the church today. Its watchword is "exclusion," and it focuses on the holiness of God, and purging the church of everything less than holy. It is essentially a call to return to the roots of our church before 1954. Although they do not mention it, they scrupulously avoid looking at the church much earlier than that. This movement is simple, easy-to-understand, and therefore very well funded.

There is a growing 'social gospel' movement in the church, in large part a reaction to the fundamentalist one. Its watchword is "inclusion." Its focus is on the love of God, and seeks to implement 'social justice,' essentially attempting, through rule and regulation, to make this world like heaven.

And there is a third group of individuals at once repelled and attracted by each of the other two movements. This view is typified by someone who wrote, "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, but I feel that God loves homosexuals."

[Woody]

[Peace]

Permission has been granted to reproduce the Farewell Address below:

1978 Farewell Address of Robert H. Pierson to the Annual Council of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1978. At the 2008 Annual GYC (Generation of Youth for Christ) meeting, held in San Jose, California, USA, in the Sunday morning (2008-12-21) devotional meeting, presenter Justin Kim quoted at great length from this address.

Presenter: Robert H. Pierson

Location: General Conference Annual Council, USA

Delivery: 1978

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

This will be the last time that in my present role I shall stand before the world leaders of my church, your church, our church, and I have a few words to leave with you.

I take my thoughts from something that Elder and Mrs. Ralph Neall have written describing how typically a sect evolves into a church. They say a sect is often begun by a charismatic leader with tremendous drive and commitment and that it arises as a protest against worldliness and formalism in a church. It is generally embraced by the poor. The rich would lose too much by joining it, since it is unpopular, despised, and persecuted by society in general. It has definite beliefs firmly held by zealous members. Each member makes a personal decision to join it and knows what he believes. There is little organization or property, and there are few buildings.

The group has strict standards and controls on behavior. Preachers, often without education, arise by inner compulsion. There is little concern about public relations.

And then it passes on to the second generation. With growth there comes a need for organization and buildings. As a result of industry and frugality, members become prosperous. As prosperity increases, persecution begins to wane. Children born into the movement do not have to make personal decisions to join it. They do not necessarily know what they believe. They do not need to hammer out their own positions. These have been worked out for them. Preachers arise more by selection and by apprenticeship to older workers than by direct inner compulsion.

In the third generation, organization develops and institutions are established. The need is seen for schools to pass on the faith of the fathers. Colleges are established.

Members have to be exhorted to live up to the standards, while at the same time the standards of membership are being lowered. The group becomes lax about disfellowshiping nonpracticing members. Missionary zeal cools off. There is more concern over public relations. Leaders study methods of propagating their faith, sometimes employing extrinsic rewards as motivation for service by the members. Youth question why they are different from others, and intermarry with those not of their faith.

In the fourth generation there is much machinery; the number of administrators increases while the number of workers at the grass-roots level becomes proportionately less. Great church councils are held to define doctrine. More schools, universities, and seminaries are established. These go to the world for accreditation and tend to become secularized. There is a reexamination of positions and modernizing of methods. Attention is given to contemporary culture, with an interest in the arts: music, architecture, literature. The movement seeks to become “relevant” to contemporary society by becoming involved with popular causes. Services become formal. The group enjoys complete acceptance by the world. The sect has become a church!

Brethren and sisters, this must never happen to the Seventh-day Adventist Church! This will not happen to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. This is not just an other church—it is God’s church!

But you are the men and women sitting in this sanctuary this morning on whom God is counting to assure that it does not happen.

Already, brethren and sisters, there are subtle forces that are beginning to stir. Regrettably there are those in the church who belittle the inspiration of the total Bible, who scorn the first 11 chapters of Genesis, who question the Spirit of Prophecy’s short chronology of the age of the earth, and who subtly and not so subtly attack the Spirit of Prophecy. There are some who point to the reformers and contemporary theologians as a source and the norm for Seventh-day Adventist doctrine. There are those who allegedly are tired of the hackneyed phrases of Adventism. There are those who wish to forget the standards of the church we love. There are those who covet and would court the favor of the evangelicals; those who would throw off the mantle of a peculiar people; and those who would go the way of the secular, materialistic world.

Fellow leaders, beloved brethren and sisters-don’t let it happen! I appeal to you as earnestly as I know how this morning-don’t let it happen! I appeal to Andrews University, to the Seminary, to Loma Linda University—don’t let it happen! We are not Seventh-day Anglicans, not Seventh-day Lutherans—we are Seventh-day Adventists! This is God’s last church with God’s last message!

You are the men and women, the leaders, whom God is counting on to keep the Seventh-day Adventist Church God’s remnant church, the church God has destined to triumph!

The servant of the Lord says, “Fearful perils are before those who bear responsibilities in the Lord’s work-perils the thought of which makes me tremble.” —Selected Messages, vol. 2, p. 391. And in Ezekiel 22:30 we read, ”I looked for a man among them who could build up a barricade, who could stand before me in the breach to defend the land from ruin” (N.E.B.).

I believe this morning, fellow leaders, that God is looking for men and women, intrepid leaders, men and women who love God’s church and God’s truth more than they love their lives, to see that this church under God goes through to the kingdom. The task ahead of us is not going to be easy. If I understand the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy aright this morning, ahead lies a time of trouble, a time of challenge such as this church and this world have never before known.

The servant of the Lord tells us,

The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists,and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath, of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless (Selected Messages, vol. 1, pp. 204, 205).

The Seventh-day Adventist Church had its alpha years ago. You and I are the leaders who will face the omega that will be of the same subtle, devilish origin. Its effect will be more devastating than the alpha. Brethren, I beg of you, study, know what is ahead, then with God’s help prepare your people to meet it!

God calls for men who are prepared to meet emergencies, men who in a crisis will not be found standing on the wrong side (Ellen G. White, the Review and Herald, November 5, 1903.

We are pressing on to the final conflict, and this is no time to compromise. It is no time to hide your colors. When the battle wages sore, Let no one turn traitor. It is no time to lay down or conceal our weapons, and give Satan the advantage in the warfare (Ibid., December 6, 1892).

And then I call attention to a vision the Lord’s servant had, in which she saw a ship heading toward an iceberg. She said, “There, towering high above the ship, was a gigantic iceberg. An authoritative voice cried out, ’Meet it!’ There was not a moment’s hesitation. It was a time for instant action. The engineer put on full steam, and the man at the wheel steered the ship straight into the iceberg. With a crash she struck the ice. There was a fearful shock, and the iceberg broke into many pieces, falling with a noise like thunder to the deck. The passengers were violently shaken by the force of the collision, but no lives were lost. The vessel was injured, but not beyond repair. She rebounded from the contact, trembling from stem to stern, like a living creature. Then she moved forward on her way.”

Well I knew the meaning of this representation. I had my orders. I had heard the words, like a voice from our Captain, ‘Meet it!’ I knew what my duty was, and that there was not a moment to lose. The time for decided action had come. I must without delay obey the command, ‘Meet it!’ (Selected Messages, vol. 1, pp. 205, 206).

Fellow leaders, it may be that in the not too distant future you will have to meet it. I pray God will give you grace and courage and wisdom.

Finally,

What a wonderful thought it is that the great controversy is nearing its end! In the closing work we shall meet with perils that we know not how to deal with; but let us not forget that the three great powers of heaven are working, that a divine hand is on the wheel, and that God will bring His purposes to pass. He will gather from the world a people who will serve Him in righteousness (Ibid., vol. 2, p. 391).

What a wonderful assurance we have this morning, brethren and sisters, that you and I are in God’s work. This work is not dependent on any man; it is dependent on our relationship with Him. There is only one way for us to face the future, and that is at the foot of the cross. A church with its eyes upon the Man of Calvary will never walk into apostasy.

[Woody]

I think I have seen this before a time or two. Yes? And what is yur point?

[delta]

Thank you, Peace, for the encouraging and the Spirit of Advent Movement devotional you shared. We believe the Lord has raised up the Seventh-day Adventist Church not to be exclusively feeling better than any others, but to mingle to the world-but not to compromise-to bring the very last messages just before the close of probation. God wants us to bring the everlasting gospel of the Three Angels' Messages to the world, but not to bring the world into the Everlasting Gospel, as God has chosen Israel for them to show His everlasting love to every person at that time.

By the way, I think Redwood is a good grandpa, I just dunno what's his desire. It's your option to answer his question or don't mind.

[Taylor]

I like your statement that we should be able to choose Taylor. And I think that is what some here are suggesting. Right now there is no option for those who are turned off by the teaching of the GYC. There ought to be an option . We ought to be able to choose as you have suggested. Just being presented one doctrine or side is not healthy. This doctrine being presented is manipulative and anti-Gospel. Some of us reject it and are opposed to it and ought to have an alternative to such teachings. Our church is divided in two camps. The legalists have their meeting and so it would seem only right that the other half of the Adventist Church be represented by having a meeting for them.

Well it isn't GYC's fault that there isn't an "alternative". There have been quite a number of large youth conferences, pathfinder or master guide conventions etc that the church does put on. There have been seminars offered etc. The GC or anyone as a lay person is welcome to start their own version of GYC or whatever they want to call it. No one has a corner on conferences. A point to consider, even if there are legalists at a given GYC meeting there is no possibility that all are legalists any more than all are liberals at a youth congress organized by the conference. I would never call Mark Finley, Sean Boonstra, Doug Batchelor (yes I know some would think he is but I think he is one of our best preachers), Jerry Page Central California Conference president (who said GYC coming to San Jose was an answere to prayer) etc are legalists who don't understand the gospel. They are men of God who have done a lot for the SDA church. There are two sides to the coin, law and grace...and both are necessary. One type of conference may emphasize one more than the other, but that is ok. No one person has it "together" except for God.

I am just offering a differnt perspective, not trying to pick a fight.

[Taylor]

I think I have seen this before a time or two. Yes? And what is yur point?

Maybe Peace didn't know it has been posted before. I do know that my parents say that Elder Pierson was one of the most godly GC presidents we ever had....I never really knew him..(and no do not infer my age from that, lol I just never knew him...haha) but I know a lot of people loved him.

[Peace]

The reason I posted the farewell address of Elder Pierson was because this would gives you the sentiment of where GYC stands.

"At the 2008 Annual GYC (Generation of Youth for Christ) meeting, held in San Jose, California, USA, in the Sunday morning (2008-12-21) devotional meeting, presenter Justin Kim quoted at great length from this address."

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I think I have seen this before a time or two. Yes? And what is yur point?

Maybe Peace didn't know it has been posted before. I do know that my parents say that Elder Pierson was one of the most godly GC presidents we ever had....I never really knew him..(and no do not infer my age from that, lol I just never knew him...haha) but I know a lot of people loved him.

Yes, Elder Pierson definitely was. Although I didn't know him personally, I heard him speak several times at different camp meetings. I wish he were alive and active today. We need men like him.

[there buster]

I know Jerry Page pretty well. He was a classmate of mine in grades 4-6 at Helen Hyatt Elementary in the early '60's. Years later, when he was a pastoral intern, he spoke at Week of Prayer at the school where I was principal. He's a very sincere guy, very devout. We've had a number of contacts through the years. LIke a lot of Conference Presidents, he's probably pretty anxious about the catastrophic loss of young adults, and eager for anything that might slow the bleeding. Knowing Jerry's past, GYC is just the sort of thing that would appeal to him.

Whether it accomplishes what he's hoping for is another matter.

[Taylor]

I don't personally know him but people say that Jerry Page is a very nice dedicated man, but I don't personally know him.

[Woody]

Quote:

support for the GYC movement

I've heard of the Advent Movement ... but now we have the 'GYC movement'. This is what concerns me. What are the doctrines of this movement. Are they clearly laid out or are they just after our youth and not telling them what their agenda really is?

I for one ... prefer to stick with the Advent Movement.

[olger]

Having fun in Californy. Spent Christmas day in Carmel...

y'all be good.

[Taylor]

Hey great picture!

[Peace]

From the GYCweb.org

GYC Conference

The annual GYC convention, themed "For This Purpose" has just concluded and God has blessed beyond measure...again! For the five days of the convention we hosted over 3200 regeristered attendees. On Sabbath 5500 young people of all ages attended Divine Worship. The conference included 17 different seminars covering a wide range of subjects to better help our youth define and commit to God's purpose for their lives. On Sabbath, our outreach volunteers filled 50 school buses, knocked on over 23,000 doors in San Jose, gave out 18,000 pieces of literature and combined with our first-ever Health Expo signed up over 1300 precious souls for Bible Studies. These contacts will provide the launch for an up-coming evangelistic series to be held in the San Jose area.

Next year's conference will be hosted in Louisville, Kentucky on the dates of December 30, 2008-January 3, 2009. Our theme is unASHAMED based on Romans 1:16, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ..." We look forward to seeing you there!

[Woody]

Do you think the turn out was theology based? Or was it the only place for SDA youth to hang out and see each other?

[Woody]

Having fun in Californy. Spent Christmas day in Carmel...

y'all be good.

Wow. That muscle dud is sure a tough one. While all the others are in jackets and scraves ... he's braving the elements.

Really though Olger ... good looking group you have.

[John317]

Very nice picture, Olger. Speaking of good pictures, I hope you were able to visit and maybe take some pictures at a place called Point Lobos, which is on Highway 1, not far from Carmel. Such a beautiful place, you'd love it. Have a great time!!

[delta]

Uncle Redwood, you angrily said, "I've heard of the Advent Movement ... but now we have the 'GYC movement'. This is what concerns me.

I for one ... prefer to stick with the Advent Movement."

and then your negative sentiment in an open-ended question:

"was it the only place for SDA youth to hang out and see each other?"

Your extreme hatred and judgemental statements again and again are highly predicted, of course, not only today but the next.

Yes, your point of view to judge that you "prefer to stick with the Advent Movement" falsely declares that GYC movement is an unclean, heretic and must be elimitated.

Unfortunately, uncle Redwood, your blanket statements deny the facts that GYC is one of the fulfillments of the long-buried Advent Movement especially here in North America. GYC is a wake-up calling movement for a great degree of slumber.....cotton candy Adventism Christianity.

It is a movement to change our attitude from merely the pleasant substance Laodecian back to the Movement, higher than the highest, and burden for souls.

Of course this GYC movement would probably also stamped as a Legalism an fanatics. But keep in mind, God's people are never in majority side.

LOVE WON ANOTHER