Make an ugly woman your wife....

[Robert]

Lets not continue to disparage woman based on looks, education or anything else.

[Liz]

There are a lot of hurting men on this board. ((((BIG HUGS TO ALL))))

[Robert]

It's nice to see someone finally defend women.

Look I'm not against women, but the woman without Christ + good looks, well, I would tell the guys to stay away! She's a man eater! Been there done that.

The best thing for a beautiful woman given over to the flesh is the aging process. That will humble her.

Rob

[Robert]

There are a lot of hurting men on this board. ((((BIG HUGS TO ALL))))

[Neil D]

There are a lot of hurting men on this board. ((((BIG HUGS TO ALL))))

Won't argue that...and some of 'em are too proud to say so.....

[Nan]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

Lets not continue to disparage woman based on looks, education or anything else.

We aren't! Look around....Look (well, don't look) at all the women taking their cloths off for $$$. Be it Hollywood, Playboy, porno, etc....They ain't ugly. So "good looks" without Christ is a curse.

Ugly, really is a bad word. Average I guess is better.

Quote:

If a marriage fails, look in the mirror first!

No, you can't do that! What you say has merit, but I've know too many women who cheat on their men because they were "gold diggers"!

Rob

And some women have suffered because of the gold diggers who have enticed the men away.....

This thread makes interesting reading, one way or another we are all vulnerable to hurt.

We have a couple of choices - close ourselves off to the world so we do not let anyone hurt us, or risk the hurt

for the joy of a good relationship. Ultimately the only one over whose actions we have control is ourselves, although

both men and women will try to control their partners.

I guess this is not really on the topic, but it is what reading this thread makes me feel.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Amelia

It's nice to see someone finally defend women.

Look I'm not against women, but the woman without Christ + good looks, well, I would tell the guys to stay away! She's a man eater! Been there done that.

The best thing for a beautiful woman given over to the flesh is the aging process. That will humble her.

Rob

Just because a woman without Christ and looks good doen'st mean that she is bad, Robert.

There are various degrees of having Christ...I know that someone will challenge me on that, but it's true.....You can't tell me that Atheists have no morals...because most do...And they operate from a totally different perspective...one not common to the SDA culture...and one that blows away [contrary to] SDA myths....

And i have known some really self center women who were single and in thier 60s and they were christian and they were advenstist...

There are exceptions to all these observations that you are making and they must be judged on a case by case scenerio...What's gonna happen to the nice lady who you chose to marry when she is placed in a very trying place. [Crisis or a tragic death of her son.]? What type of person does she become then? as opposed to when you two are dating and going camping and spending time together?

[Bravus]

There are certainly some women whose only skill and qualification for life is being 'hot'. Unfortunately, our society rewards that enough that it's a viable life strategy. I think those women are more to be pitied than scorned, but it's probably true to say that marrying one of them is not a great long term plan, although even there there are exceptions.

But let me suggest that (a) the same things are true for both sexes - even if looks are less important to women, there still exist 'himbos' and ( it's not the looks, but the value placed on the looks by the person that is important. If a person is attractive but cares more about other things like character and conversation, they can make an excellent partner. If their looks are their main topic of thought, of course they're likely to cause problems.

When I spoke of looking within, I was speaking of character, and *of course* the transformation of the character through Christ is the only way to a good character. But for the third time in this thread I reiterate: stop looking at the outward appearance of others and start attending to your own heart, through God's grace, and you're far more likely to have a long and happy marriage.

[Gail]

What is ugly, anyway? What is beauty?

When I think of the people I love, I really can't say that they are ugly or beautiful by the world's standards. Their beauty comes from what I know about them and how emotionally connected I am with them. It doesn't really matter what the people I love look like, male or female.

There is also an element that really has no reason. Sometimes God helps me to love them.

[Neil D]

When I spoke of looking within, I was speaking of character, and *of course* the transformation of the character through Christ is the only way to a good character. But for the third time in this thread I reiterate: stop looking at the outward appearance of others and start attending to your own heart, through God's grace, and you're far more likely to have a long and happy marriage.

While I agree with this, the problem for us single pirates lookin' for permanent wenches, [if I may subjugate my self to the pirate vinactular], how do you tell a good mate from a closely good mate.....

I used to believe in the Adam/Eve concept where there was ONE ideal mate for you...no more...that wentt out the door the same day that my ex did....

...and I don't want to turn this thread into a "HOW to find a good mate" session either for those of us who are single.

So...how do you test the character, or do you test the character of a prospective mate?

[Bravus]

I think my point was that by *being* a good mate, you'll attract a good mate. I guess it's hard when single not to try too hard and maybe to overlook things, but being the person God wants you to be will have you showing the character God wants you to have, and that will attract people of similar character.

I have to admit a lot of my inspiration on this comes from that old sig of yours, Neil - the one about waiting until your cup is full and running over, and then you'll need someone to share it with, or words to that effect.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Robert, you should be ashamed of yourself. You are judging this woman's heart by your own interpretation of her words and behavior. She may not have meant everything she's said in a totally different way than you interpreted it.

Low self-worth very often looks to others as pride or self-centeredness. In school, I was very shy, because of a lifetime of verbal abuse, both at home and at school. Others at school thought I was stuck-up. I wasn't. I didn't reach out to others because I expected rejection, because it had happened so many times.

On the other hand, her statement about letting you see her now may have been meant to be humorous. I also have a weird sense of humor, which most people have misinterpreted through the years, and judged me wrongfully for.

I'm just really thankful, Robert, that I never got involved with someone like you. I feel very sorry for that young woman. Although, in fact,you probably did her somewhat of a favor. She's much better off finding someone else.

[Neil D]

Quote:

I'm just really thankful, Robert, that I never got involved with someone like you. I feel very sorry for that young woman. Although, in fact,you probably did her somewhat of a favor. She's much better off finding someone else.

Ouch...that hurt.....

I have a question for you.....

Do you know all the poticulars of this divorce? I don't....and i have more information than you do...

How can you make the claim that you did? "I just really thankful ...that I never got involved with someone like you."

This is from a woman who "In school, was very shy, because of a lifetime of verbal abuse, both at home and at school."

Tell me, did you recieve so much verbal abuse that you do not recognise it? How many years has it been since you recieve such verbal abuse?

You also said, " Others at school thought I was stuck-u p. I wasn't. I didn't reach out to others because I expected rejection, because it had happened so many times."

You may have accepted the wife, but what about the husband? this is a marriage that has failed...you take sides???? You reject one ..to save what???? a marriage?...you can't save a marriage without saving and reaching out to both parties...And even if the marriage is not salvageable, why reject both or either one???

I am sorry, but I can not do that....I would dearly love to save both....but I will not reject one or the other, regardless of what the other is feeling....

[Bravus]

I think Gramma was talking about the woman Robert was talking about in the initial post who, given that he's involved with her at the moment, probably isn't his ex...

[Bravus]

And I have to admit that having sent her such a mean text based on his interpretation of a few words of hers, the same thought - that she might have had a lucky escape - had crossed my mind.

Robert may be able to set us all straight on this, and I'd love to hear his side of the story, but his actions in that case did seem pretty petulant on their face, and to be bringing damage from the old relationship into interpreting what happens in the new one...

[GreatLakesGramma]

Robert, that message was vicious and hurtful. Nothing that woman could have done could justify sending such a cruel message. The message itself constituted emotional abuse. The fact that you would not only send such a message, but tell us about it as if it were perfectly OK to send it, with no remorse, does not put you in a favorable light.

From what you've said, along with the message you sent, which says a lot more about YOU than about her, it sounds as though she could be simply trying to maintain a healthy autonomy from a possibly clinging, or even controlling man, who has become angry because her world doesn't revolve around HIM, and that she isn't willing to do everything just as he wants her to.

Robert, this woman has a right to have a life apart from her relationship with you. She also has a right to set whatever limits to that relationship that she wants. You have no right to condemn her for that. If you have been through a nasty divorce, it is very likely that you are seeing her behavior through your feelings against your ex-wife, something no woman deserves. It's also very possible that you are acting in a way that is actually pushing her away, at the same time that you are trying to keep her close. You need to work through your own grief and pain, and find healing for your own emotions before you are ready to get involved with someone else. Otherwise, you are dooming that next relationship to become a repetition of the previous.

You also owe her an apology.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Neil, I know nothing about Robert's divorce - didn't even know he had been divorced. I don't read much on this forum, as I seldom have time. And whatever mention of his divorce may have been made in this thread, I missed it. Possibly in part because after reading that message he sent to the woman he started this thread about, I was really steaming. He's just lucky he didn't tell me about it in person. I also didn't notice that there was a second page to the thread.

Robert may be hurting, but he was still wrong to send such a cruel message, and I still feel sorry for her. If I were her, I'd run the other way as fast as possible and never look back. Because until and unless he deals with his own feelings, she would only be in for more of the same if she stuck around. That's just the way we humans are. When we are hurting, we hurt others.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Robert, I'm sorry that I originally posted to you in anger. I take back what I said about "someone like you." I don't really know you at all, or know much of anything about you, but I guess you could be a really nice, decent guy, even though your attitude toward attractive women right now stinks. But everything else I said still stands. You were wrong, and you need to apologize. And you need to mean it.

[Woody]

GLG ... I appreciate that you have 'somewhat' apologized to Rob. You needed to. But I wish you had left off the call for HIM to apologize. These kinds of posts need to go to PMs anyways. This is why we have rules.Good thing that Rob is not a moderator. But the purpose of my post is to verify that yes ... Rob is a 'really nice and decent guy'. Some of us really appreciate having him here.

[Bravus]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I think GLG was saying Robert needs to apologise to the woman in question rather than to her.

This thread attacks all attractive women, and tars them all with the same brush, which is deeply unfair. I'm married to one and share a house with two others (my daughters), and none of them are as described - they have loving, caring and secure characters and know that being good people is what counts in a relationship.

[Bravus]

PS I also appreciate having Robert here, appreciate his ideas and his thoughts and his active participation. Doesn't mean that he's right on this issue, or that he doesn't need to take a good hard look at himself and his attitudes. Starting a post with 'I'm not a misogynist but...' is about like starting a sentence with 'I'm not a racist, but...'

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

I have/had (?) a woman in my life that is/was(?) very nice looking, but and now she's totally in love with herself. She was going to come over this afternoon, but dropped by yesterday unannounced. So I asked her, "What about our plans tomorrow?" And she said, "Am letting you see me now!"

I just sent her an email to her cell phone. Here's what I said:

"Don't take this wrong. You are very pretty woman, but because you are so self-centered it makes you ugly. What you said to me yesterday made me realize this. You said, 'You are getting to see me now!' Wow, what self-love, (name)! I mean you are really becoming a person I don't desire!"

I can't get into too much detail because, honestly, it's no ones business. For those I know I could talk privately if they want more info, but I won't publish the details here.

The bottom line is that this woman has herself told me she is selfish and self-centered; so I was merely mirroring her own words back to her. I know the situation and no one else does.

Rob

[Robert]

Starting a post with 'I'm not a misogynist but...' is about like starting a sentence with 'I'm not a racist, but...'

No, Bravus, you are wrong. You don't have all the facts so you really shouldn't make that conclusion.

Rob

[Bravus]

Well, you can hardly make a public post and then tell us that we can only understand it with details you won't or can't give us...

How about you moderate your claims to 'there are some attractive women who are also self-centred', rather than attacking all attractive women?

[Robert]

How about you moderate your claims to 'there are some attractive women who are also self-centred', rather than attacking all attractive women?

If you re-read my statement I said that very attractive women without Christ are naturally eat up with themselves.

Rob