Steve Billiter Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Justice is not negated by mercy. It may not be our duty to punish, therefore that becomes obedience. Forgiveness is the remission of sins, without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. The only reason we even exist is because of calvary. So without His shed blood for us, we cannot forgive each other. Psa 85:9 Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land. Psa 85:10 Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted December 12, 2009 Moderators Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: SivartM If I eat too much cake and know it's wrong, does that mean I'm not justified? Or not justified anymore? According to Traditional SDA theology, yes....If you die after eating too much cake before you repent...you're lost That's a perversion of SDA theology. See my post #307321. See also Steve Billiter's response. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted December 12, 2009 Author Moderators Posted December 12, 2009 Like I stated ... it is no longer a part of our theology. When was that ever a part of the theology of the Seventh-day Adventist church? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 I heard Morris Vendon speak of this yo-yo religion. Of course he was opposed to it's teachings in our church. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Members phkrause Posted December 12, 2009 Members Posted December 12, 2009 George Knight, its a very informative book, Redwood. I've enjoyed reading it. I also loved the one last year by Jon Pauline on Revelation. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
SivartM Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Yo-yo theology was promoted in a very (otherwise) good book published a few years ago by Review and Herald. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Yo-yo theology was promoted in a very (otherwise) good book published a few years ago by Review and Herald. Yes. It is alive and well in many publications even today. It is very present even on this forum. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Members phkrause Posted December 12, 2009 Members Posted December 12, 2009 Sivart what would be the name of that book? and who wrote it? pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
SivartM Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 I hope I don't get sued for this... O_O "Miracles, Faith, and Unanswered Prayer" by Richard Jensen. Hopefully that's not anyone on here... Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Members phkrause Posted December 12, 2009 Members Posted December 12, 2009 Again I can agree with that Redwood, but its not from the leadership of the denomonation, its from individuals and most importantly its not from the Bible? Is it? That would be the real authority would it not? See I have no problem with poeple saying those things at all, as long as I don't allow them to suck me in to that. Doesn't Jesus say to check all things out with the word of God? So what's the problem? The problem is when we allow this to infest our lives, than complain about it and than blame the whole denomonation for this instead of those that are the culprits. Because for me nobody speaks for God, if its not written in the word there is no truth in them!!!!!!!!!!! pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 I hope I don't get sued for this... O_O "Miracles, Faith, and Unanswered Prayer" by Richard Jensen. Hopefully that's not anyone on here... WEll ... there is a Richard here. And there is a Jensen. I dunno. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Members phkrause Posted December 12, 2009 Members Posted December 12, 2009 Sued for what Sivart? Saying what they have written is yoyo theology? But as I suspected, they are not an official leader in the church, so as far as I can tell they can say what they want, but you and I don't have to abide by that, do we? Even if Doug Batchelor said things that I thought didn't sound right, and I checked them out to the Bible and they didn't agree, guess what? I wouldn't be following what he has to say. And I wouldn't be blaming the SDA church for bad theology. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Steve Billiter Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 right, I suppose if I eat 5 pounds a day of cake and ice cream and blow up to 400 lbs, and die prematurely from overweight related disease, I may have a problem getting into heaven. God is the judge, not us. Quote
SivartM Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 I didn't say it was ever official SDA theology. Of course, when we're selling a certain theology in our bookstores, that's not exactly very helpful if it's something like that. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 The church is the people. And we have many who teach and promote yo-yo theology. Like I indicated .... it is less of an issue now. But, it was a much larger problem earlier in our history. Praise God most of us have grown. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 right, I suppose if I eat 5 pounds a day of cake and ice cream and blow up to 400 lbs, and die prematurely from overweight related disease, I may have a problem getting into heaven. WHY? Do you think this person wouldn't fit through the door? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Robert Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Would you remain justified if you are deliberately living in adultery? Deliberately stealing the Lord's money year in and year out? Deliberately breaking any or all of his commandments? Why just bring up the letter of the law...let's also ask the same when it comes to the spirit of the law. "Self-love, self-interest, must perish." EGW Are you living Christ's selfless love? If not you will not make it in the judgment....I'm just giving you back your own theology and then some.... Quote
Robert Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 If you want to live in sin, that's your choice. I never said I want to live in sin, but I am....Not totally given over to the flesh, but nevertheless still imperfect...And you are too.... Quote
Robert Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert According to Traditional SDA theology, yes....If you die after eating too much cake before you repent...you're lost [/quote'] That's a perversion of SDA theology. See my post #307321. See also Steve Billiter's response. If I lust after a woman and then get killed...will I be in heaven? Quote
SivartM Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 still imperfect...And you are too.... *gasp* Say it isn't so! I sure do wish there was a way I could be forgiven for my sins... :( Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo If you want to live in sin, that's your choice. I never said I want to live in sin, but I am....Not totally given over to the flesh, but nevertheless still imperfect...And you are too.... Good Point Rob. Trouble is ... those who are the farthest from Christ ... are the ones that feel they are perfect and don't need him. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Robert Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert I never said I want to live in sin, but I am....Not totally given over to the flesh, but nevertheless still imperfect...And you are too.... [/quote'] Good Point Rob. Trouble is ... those who are the farthest from Christ ... are the ones that feel they are perfect and don't need him. Bingo! Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted December 12, 2009 Moderators Posted December 12, 2009 I hope I don't get sued for this... O_O "Miracles, Faith, and Unanswered Prayer" by Richard Jensen. Hopefully that's not anyone on here... Who is this Richard Jensen? Is he the one that formulates SDA doctrine. And does the church now teach that once you are saved you remain so? I've been a SDA longer than not, I am not aware that either one has been the position held. But there are people that would like Calvin's position to become the official teaching of the church. Quote
cardw Posted December 12, 2009 Posted December 12, 2009 "Forgiveness is giving up the need to punish." Not sure I agree with that at all cardw. If someone runs a stop sign because they are under the influence and kills someone I love, a family member, etc. I can forgive, but under the law that person needs to be punished, do they not? pk What difference does it make if they are punished? Does it bring back the family member? Can it actually pay for the loss? Let's say we kill that person. We lose all the further possible contribution their life can bring. They may be a father, brother, or significant other to someone else. We then are punishing the whole family. Do they come and demand justice from us for killing their loved one? Laws and punishment are a man made concept and within that concept is a whole bunch of limitations. There is no great court in the sky. That's projecting elementary thinking to some god in the universe. The only value that forgiveness has is peace for the person forgiving and the chance of restoration for the person who made a poor choice so that they can regain the ability to contribute to their community. Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
Moderators Gerr Posted December 12, 2009 Moderators Posted December 12, 2009 Why just bring up the letter of the law...let's also ask the same when it comes to the spirit of the law. "Self-love, self-interest, must perish." EGW Are you living Christ's selfless love? If not you will not make it in the judgment....I'm just giving you back your own theology and then some.... [/quote You take her out of context; don't believe a lot of what she wrote, why don't you use the Bible and the Bible alone? We've gone through this over different threads and probably hundreds of pages. Nowhere does the Bible teach NO SELF. The command is: YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. Now, if you want to love your neighbor more than yourself, there is no law against that. But to have no love for self? You won't find that in Scripture. You keep bringing up selflessness as God requirement and club people with it but yet make no attempt to keep it! Quote
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