Is It Possible to Live Without Sinning?

[Guest]

The guests at the marriage feast were inspected by the king. Only those were accepted who had obeyed his requirements and put on the wedding garment. So it is with the guests at the gospel feast. All must pass the scrutiny of the great King, and only those are received who have put on the robe of Christ's righteousness.

Righteousness is right doing, and it is by their deeds that all will be judged. Our characters are revealed by what we do. The works show whether the faith is genuine.

It is not enough for us to believe that Jesus is not an impostor, and that the religion of the Bible is no cunningly devised fable. We may believe that the name of Jesus is the only name under heaven whereby man may be saved, and yet we may not through faith make Him our personal Saviour. It is not enough to believe the theory of truth. It is not enough to make a profession of faith in Christ and have our names registered on the church roll. "He that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him.

And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us." "Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments." 1 John 3:24; 2:3. This is the genuine evidence of conversion. Whatever our profession, it amounts to nothing unless Christ is revealed in works of righteousness. {COL 312,313}

[wayfinder]

Revelation 7:14 NAS

I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 19:8 NAS

It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean ; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

The righteous are clothed in their own robe, which has been washed in the blood of the Lamb. They are not wearing the lambs robe over their own unrighteousness. To wash ones robe is to be sanctified. Sanctification is the process of becoming righteous.

[Guest]

Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment. Zec 3:3,4

[wayfinder]

God is saying, I have taken away the iniquity of your fathers and will give you a second chance. It is sin that stains the garment, the sin is washed away by the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 3:18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed ; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

This is given in the same context as that given to Joshua (the high priest after the Babylonian exile)

[pnattmbtc]

Here's a nice statement from the SOP:

Quote:

By His perfect obedience He has made it possible for every human being to obey God's commandments. When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness. Then as the Lord looks upon us He sees, not the fig-leaf garment, not the nakedness and deformity of sin, but His own robe of righteousness, which is perfect obedience to the law of Jehovah. (COL 312)

[Robert]

....we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness.

Well, here's one of EGW's statements that fall under the category as error....Not intentional error, but nevertheless error. If she can't commit error then she is infallible, and clearly she never claimed such.

The robe of Christ righteousness is what He did in our humanity 2000 years ago, period!!!! If you make it what we do through the Spirit (which we do experience) then it is an incomplete robe and will not stand the test in the judgment!

[pnattmbtc]

In my opinion, she's right, and so is Waggoner, and Jones.

Waggoner's arguments are based on Scripture, and I think they're right on. I also think the message he and Jones shared was given by God. This doesn't mean they were infallible either, but this particular question lies at the heart of righteousness by faith, and I think they got it right (meaning they correctly interpreted Paul), and EGW was correct in echoing what they said.

[Robert]

In my opinion, she's right, and so is Waggoner, and Jones.

Are you perfect, as God is perfect? Are you selfless...are is there self-seeking in your life....Everything you do is it without benefit to you in any way? IF not then you are unclothed and will not stand the judgment....That's why this teaching is an error.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

In my opinion, she's right, and so is Waggoner, and Jones.

________________________________

Are you perfect, as God is perfect? Are you selfless...are is there self-seeking in your life....Everything you do is it without benefit to you in any way? IF not then you are unclothed and will not stand the judgment....That's why this teaching is an error.

Robert

_________________________________

Are you teaching that the God of Heaven is incapable of emptying our hearts of the corroding power of selfishness?

sky

[pnattmbtc]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

In my opinion, she's right, and so is Waggoner, and Jones.

Are you perfect, as God is perfect? Are you selfless...are is there self-seeking in your life....Everything you do is it without benefit to you in any way? IF not then you are unclothed and will not stand the judgment....That's why this teaching is an error.

Please quote something from Ellen White, or Jones, or Waggoner that you're asking about. Unless you have in mind the passage I quoted from COL. If you have that one in mind, please explain where in that passage you see Ellen White saying any of the things you're asking about.

[Woody]

Quote:

The robe of Christ righteousness is what He did in our humanity 2000 years ago, period!!!! If you make it what we do through the Spirit (which we do experience) then it is an incomplete robe and will not stand the test in the judgment!

Amen. Excellent point Rob.

[Woody]

Quote:

Are you teaching that the God of Heaven is incapable of emptying our hearts of the corroding power of selfishness?

sky

I've never heard of any Christian who would limit God in such a way. No. It is just a matter of when this gets accomplished.

"Like Him. This points to the fulfillment of God's plan for fallen man -- restoration to the divine image...It is God's design to restore that similitude by giving man victory over sin and over every temptation. The restoration will be completed AT THE SECOND COMING." 7 BC 649

[skyblue888]

How many times we have reminded you that this statement is not from the pen of inspiration!

The work to be completed at the coming of Christ has nothing to do with character building, or the work of sanctification. That must be accomplished before the close of probation. The only work that will be done for us at the coming of Christ is to give us a new body, immortal, imperishable.

sky

There is no such page as 649 from 7 BC anyway! Vol.7 starts in the 900s

[Woody]

Quote:

There is no such page as 649 from 7 BC anyway! Vol.7 starts in the 900s

Sky. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Any serious SDA student can look it up in the SDA Bible Commentary and see it. Each Commentary starts with it's own page number so this ideea that Vol.7 starts with a 900 page number is nonsense. But then with you not being an SDA ... perhaps you wouldn't know.

[John317]

Quote:

There is no such page as 649 from 7 BC anyway! Vol.7 starts in the 900s

Sky. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Any serious SDA student can look it up in the SDA Bible Commentary and see it. Each Commentary starts with it's own page number so this ideea that Vol.7 starts with a 900 page number is nonsense. But then with you not being an SDA ... perhaps you wouldn't know.

The simple solution to this difference is the fact that Redwood is talking about volume 7 of the 1957 edition of the SDA Bible Commentary, whereas sky is talking about volume 7A, the Ellen White comments. Volume 7A itself is divided up into 7 volumes. Vol. 7 of that book begins with page 903. Vol. 1 begins with page 1081.

The quote found on page 649 of Vol. 7 of the SDA BC is not written by Ellen White but by the editors of the Bible Commentary. It does not contradict what sky wrote before. It's talking about the fact that the restoration of mankind will be completed at the Second Coming.

[John317]

How many times we have reminded you that this statement is not from the pen of inspiration!

The work to be completed at the coming of Christ has nothing to do with character building, or the work of sanctification. That must be accomplished before the close of probation. The only work that will be done for us at the coming of Christ is to give us a new body, immortal, imperishable.

What you say here is true, sky. Ellen White says this over and over again in unmistakable language that cannot be misunderstood except if someone tries really hard.

[Woody]

Obviously ... I clearly stated Vol. 7 of the SDA Bible Commentary and not anything else. Accuracy is important when providing references and also when quoting.

The quote clearly states that we will be like Him and have victory over all sin but that this will be accomplished at the second coming. Any serious Bible study can see this in the quote,our prophet,and in scripture.

God's Word is sure. And He has made it doubly sure through our prophet. There can be no doubt.

It's the tactic of the enemy to make null and void the words of Truth. Even to go so far as to say the words or quotes do not exist when they do. For in them is much Truth.

[Guest]

Are you teaching that the God of Heaven is incapable of emptying our hearts of the corroding power of selfishness?

sky

That's what he's sellin' alright, but I ain't buyin' it.

[Woody]

Quote:

Are you teaching that the God of Heaven is incapable of emptying our hearts of the corroding power of selfishness?

sky

I've never heard of any Christian who would limit God in such a way. No. It is just a matter of when this gets accomplished.

"Like Him. This points to the fulfillment of God's plan for fallen man -- restoration to the divine image...It is God's design to restore that similitude by giving man victory over sin and over every temptation. The restoration will be completed AT THE SECOND COMING." 7 BC 649

This one is worth a re-run.

[Guest]

This one is worth a re-run.

I don't think so...... HALLMARK!!!???

[Robert]

Are you teaching that the God of Heaven is incapable of emptying our hearts of the corroding power of selfishness?

He can do nothing until

1] You have the full assurance of salvation

2] You are not depending on those works to save you

3] You completely surrender for He will not force Himself on you

[pnattmbtc]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Are you teaching that the God of Heaven is incapable of emptying our hearts of the corroding power of selfishness?

He can do nothing until

1] You have the full assurance of salvation

2] You are not depending on those works to save you

3] You completely surrender for He will not force Himself on you

I can see 2) and 3), but not 1). I'm sure there will be many people in heaven who did not have full assurance of salvation. Surely all that's needed for God to cleanse our hearts is that we be willing for Him to do so.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

He can do nothing until

1] You have the full assurance of salvation

2] You are not depending on those works to save you

3] You completely surrender for He will not force Himself on you

I can see 2) and 3)' date=' but not 1). I'm sure there will be many people in heaven who did not have full assurance of salvation. Surely all that's needed for God to cleanse our hearts is that we be willing for Him to do so. [/quote']

If you don't have the assurance of salvation then you will always doubt your salvation. This is turn will pollute your works with egocentric concerns. Where you have "self" you have sin....Hence, you will produce self-righteousness, which in the judgment, will condemn you.....

[pnattmbtc]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

I can see 2) and 3)' date=' but not 1). I'm sure there will be many people in heaven who did not have full assurance of salvation. Surely all that's needed for God to cleanse our hearts is that we be willing for Him to do so. [/quote']

If you don't have the assurance of salvation then you will always doubt your salvation. This is turn will pollute your works with egocentric concerns. Where you have "self" you have sin....Hence, you will produce self-righteousness, which in the judgment, will condemn you.....

Not necessarily, Robert. It could be one is concerned with other things, like the honor and glory of Christ, or helping others, so that one doesn't think about it. The alternative to not having full assurance of salvation is not necessarily doubting it. It's certainly not inevitable that one who does not have full assurance of salvation will pollute works with egocentric concerns.

Consider Enoch. He certainly didn't have "full assurance of salvation," since he wasn't even aware of the after life, until after the vision (or dream) that Jude talks about. But he walked with God. So his works certainly weren't polluted with egocentric concerns due to not having full assurance of salvation.

Also, this simply isn't a theme in Scripture that's talked about very much. John is the only one I can think of who talks about it. I'm not saying it's not important, just that there other things more important. For example:

Quote:

It is not the fear of punishment, or the hope of everlasting reward, that leads the disciples of Christ to follow Him. They behold the Saviour's matchless love, revealed throughout His pilgrimage on earth, from the manger of Bethlehem to Calvary's cross, and the sight of Him attracts, it softens and subdues the soul. Love awakens in the heart of the beholders. They hear His voice, and they follow Him. (DA 480)

[Guest]

Amen