True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 Originally Posted By: Kountzer I don't think God tells anyone to break his commandments and go to church on Sunday. It's not breaking God's commandments and going to Church on Sunday... It's called giving respect to those in our Christian family--the whole Christian Denominations, and respecting them for what they believe to be in the Bible. All the Christian denominations listed are our brothers and sisters in the Lord, so we ought to be there for them and respect them for how they interpret the Bible... Some could say the Sabbath is one day per week, and others will say its been transformed as a 24/7 everyday rest in Christ, and still others say its Sunday... We must NOT believe what they teach, but we can still respect them, for they are family in God's Kingdom. _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 16328 Loc: Columbia, SC Originally Posted By: Kountzer I don't think God tells anyone to break his commandments and go to church on Sunday. It doesn't matter what day you go to church....Go on Monday. _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 16328 Loc: Columbia, SC Originally Posted By: Kountzer What a bunch of junk. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Oh, other Christians are second rate? That's self-righteousness, the same sin that caused many Jews to be lost some 2000 years ago. Don't make the same mistake. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Not Cloned Getting the hang of posting Registered: 03/28/09 Posts: 28 Loc: Michigan It doesn't matter what day you go to church....Go on Monday. I am not sure as to what you are trying to communicate. I believe it does not matter when you "do" attend church. What is the key is when you don't go to church. It is not what you include it is what you exclude. Following God's direction is key. If God direct us to give 10 percent tithe is it acceptable to say well 3 percent is acceptable? One worships on the day that divine imperative tells them. It is a matter of a relationship with a Savior and a choice to follow Him. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 16328 Loc: Columbia, SC Originally Posted By: Not Cloned Following God's direction is key. If God direct us to give 10 percent tithe is it acceptable to say well 3 percent is acceptable? One worships on the day that divine imperative tells them. It is a matter of a relationship with a Savior and a choice to follow Him. Sorry...not under law. Go bug someone else. _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 16328 Loc: Columbia, SC Originally Posted By: carolaa The Sabbath was made before the law. Yes, and when the fall happened the Sabbath lost its significance. The fall destroyed the Sabbath’s significance, since sin is turning from God-dependence to self-dependence. Isa. 59:2 says that your sin separates you from God. Gen. 3:19 is a good text. What did God say to Adam after he fell? From now onward you will eat your bread by the sweat of your brow. Before that, God worked for Adam. When you read about the Garden of Eden, it says it was God who planted the garden for Adam. Now God says, From now onward you will eat your bread by the sweat of your brow. That means, “You will have no rest.” So the fall destroyed the significance of the Sabbath. [Hebrews 4:1-13 (Part 3) – Christ, the True Sabbath Rest, Jack S.] _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 16328 Loc: Columbia, SC Originally Posted By: Robert Originally Posted By: carolaa The Sabbath was made before the law. Yes, and when the fall happened the Sabbath lost its significance. The fall destroyed the Sabbath’s significance, since sin is turning from God-dependence to self-dependence. Isa. 59:2 says that your sin separates you from God. Gen. 3:19 is a good text. What did God say to Adam after he fell? From now onward you will eat your bread by the sweat of your brow. Before that, God worked for Adam. When you read about the Garden of Eden, it says it was God who planted the garden for Adam. Now God says, From now onward you will eat your bread by the sweat of your brow. That means, “You will have no rest.” So the fall destroyed the significance of the Sabbath. [Hebrews 4:1-13 (Part 3) – Christ, the True Sabbath Rest, Jack S.] Also, the Sabbath of creation symbolized a perfect and complete work. Because of the fall God's work has been destroyed. Sin entered the world...Lucifer became it's god. Hence, once again, the Sabbath of creation is meaningless! _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Not Cloned Getting the hang of posting Registered: 03/28/09 Posts: 28 Loc: Michigan What do we mean here when we say that Sabbath was before the law? I'm confused! _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Not Cloned Getting the hang of posting Registered: 03/28/09 Posts: 28 Loc: Michigan I was told to go bug someone else. Sorry no can do. The truth of the matter is that no one has ever been saved under the law. There were those who misunderstood covenant promises and then distorted the covenant which became one of Paul's main focuses in his letters. Everyone that has ever been saved was saved the same way, through the only One who is the Way. Acts 4:12 says "no other name" only through Jesus. Obedience comes as a result of the relationship between the creature and Creator. Therefore keeping the law which includes the Sabbath is not a part of being under the law but under the everlasting covenant, Hebrews 13:20 “Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.” Sorry, got to keep bugging! Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 carolaa Registered: 03/22/05 Posts: 2223 Loc: Texas Originally Posted By: Robert Also, the Sabbath of creation symbolized a perfect and complete work. Because of the fall God's work has been destroyed. Sin entered the world...Lucifer became it's god. Hence, once again, the Sabbath of creation is meaningless! Then why did God include it in the Ten Commandments to *remember* it if it was meaningless, done away with, whatever? Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Kountzer Registered: 10/18/02 Posts: 801 Loc: Houston, Texas Originally Posted By: Robert Originally Posted By: Kountzer What a bunch of junk. Oh, other Christians are second rate? That's self-righteousness, the same sin that caused many Jews to be lost some 2000 years ago. Don't make the same mistake. I agree with the known belief that the majority of the saints are in other churches beside the sda church. I don't believe that God is inspring or directing people to this and that denomination. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one true church. I believe that church, or church movement, or christian movement is the seventh day adventist church. The Spirit is calling people out of babylon, not leading them in. _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 True-believer Registered: 01/01/09 Posts: 336 Loc: SA, Australia Originally Posted By: Kountzer I agree with the known belief that the majority of the saints are in other churches beside the sda church. I don't believe that God is inspring or directing people to this and that denomination. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one true church. I believe that church, or church movement, or christian movement is the seventh day adventist church. The Spirit is calling people out of babylon, not leading them in. I don't believe for a second that the seventh-day Adventist Church is The Only True Church----that is way too legalistic Kountzer!!! And very unbiblical!!! In the Bible we are told not to judge our brothers or sisters of their salvation!!! Please read what Robert has written above, it is spot on, when Jesus Himself becomes our Sabbath rest like it says in Hebrews 4. Kountzer, your way too narrow minded if you think the SDA Church has the only truth. I currently go to a small AOG Church, and they do NOT teach that SUNDAY is The day, instead they teach what Robert above has been writing, Jesus is our Sabbath-rest. Like Robert says, were free to go to Church on any day of the week. And also like what you say also, we will not stop bugging ya!!! _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 16328 Loc: Columbia, SC Originally Posted By: carolaa Originally Posted By: Robert Also, the Sabbath of creation symbolized a perfect and complete work. Because of the fall God's work has been destroyed. Sin entered the world...Lucifer became it's god. Hence, once again, the Sabbath of creation is meaningless! Then why did God include it in the Ten Commandments to *remember* it if it was meaningless, done away with, whatever? Which one...the 1st set of tablets or the 2nd? Didn't the 2nd set replace the 1st? If so, how does the 4ht commandment read? What's the reason for keeping the Sabbath? Is it creation or redemption? Rob Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Kountzer Registered: 10/18/02 Posts: 801 Loc: Houston, Texas Originally Posted By: True-believer Originally Posted By: Kountzer I agree with the known belief that the majority of the saints are in other churches beside the sda church. I don't believe that God is inspring or directing people to this and that denomination. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one true church. I believe that church, or church movement, or christian movement is the seventh day adventist church. The Spirit is calling people out of babylon, not leading them in. I don't believe for a second that the seventh-day Adventist Church is The Only True Church----that is way too legalistic Kountzer!!! And very unbiblical!!! In the Bible we are told not to judge our brothers or sisters of their salvation!!! Please read what Robert has written above, it is spot on, when Jesus Himself becomes our Sabbath rest like it says in Hebrews 4. Kountzer, your way too narrow minded if you think the SDA Church has the only truth. I currently go to a small AOG Church, and they do NOT teach that SUNDAY is The day, instead they teach what Robert above has been writing, Jesus is our Sabbath-rest. Like Robert says, were free to go to Church on any day of the week. And also like what you say also, we will not stop bugging ya!!! Whenever I see something posted by you or Robert I immediately dismiss it as goofball. _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Moderators Bravus Posted April 2, 2009 Moderators Posted April 2, 2009 Not sure how copying and pasting half of another thread takes us forward. And generally the way it works is that you post a thread and let the forum members decide how important it is by posting in it or not... But I guess I'm a little surprised that you're surprised that there are different views on the Sabbath. Quote Truth is important
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Redwood Swiss n Swedish American Registered: 12/09/06 Posts: 12062 Loc: A citizen of Heaven Originally Posted By: Kountzer What a bunch of junk. Sounds good to me. Not sure why you would call it 'junk'. _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Redwood Swiss n Swedish American Registered: 12/09/06 Posts: 12062 Loc: A citizen of Heaven Originally Posted By: Kountzer I don't think God tells anyone to break his commandments and go to church on Sunday. I don't see anything wrong with going to church more than one day of the week. I've had a number of friends who would worship on Saturday per the 10 commandments and then to a Sunday Church on Sunday. Why should we withhold fellowship with other Christians just because of the day? Also ... our SDA Church has held meetings on Sundays in our church. IS that a sin? _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 pkrause Registered: 03/24/00 Posts: 2863 Loc: Lancaster,MA,USA I agree with Kountzer about the SDA church and the Sabbath. In Genesis 2:1-3 it says: "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all his work which he had done in creation". Than God gave the Hebrew nation the 10 commandments with the 4th say: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your manservant, or your maidservant, or your cattle, or the sojourner who is within your gates; for in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it." And when Jesus comes to this earth and lives among us he observes the Sabbath, if as you say it doesn't matter than why didn't he show us that by saying to all that till he returns we should worship any day we fill like it. No, he even rested on the Sabbath when he died for us. And he also said "if you love me keep my commandments". And in Revelation 14:12 it says: "Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith do Jesus." Don't you think that is it was OK to worship any day of the week, that he would have shown John that as the world was coming to an end? I'm not going to say for sure that the SDA church is the remnant, but I do believe that they are the last church in the progression of churches at the end, And that from all the so called churches left that a remnant will come out of them, but as per the bible all those left will be sabbath keepers. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Robert Registered: 07/14/01 Posts: 16328 Loc: Columbia, SC Originally Posted By: pkrause In Genesis 2:1-3 it says: "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all his work which he had done in creation". Why did God rest? Because creation was perfect. He didn't start creating again on the 8th day of creation. So He rested eternally (until the fall) not because He was tired, but rather because "His rest" pointed to a perfect and sinless creation. The moment Adam fell the Sabbath lost its significance. Quote: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. [why?] ...for in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it." Right, and the Sabbath as it points to creation is meaningless this side of the fall. That's why when the 2nd tablet was restored God changed the 4th commandment to a sign of redemption. Quote: And when Jesus comes to this earth and lives among us he observes the Sabbath... Jesus also never lived for Himself. He never did anything for Himself. Even His early education was to serve mankind. He lived that love that doesn't seek its own wealth, but another's to the point of poverty...but I don't see you pushing that like the Sabbath. If you make one mandatory, you must keep the whole law....You must live Christ's life. _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Not Cloned Getting the hang of posting Registered: 03/28/09 Posts: 28 Loc: Michigan Robert, you bring about some very interesting ideas. You said “the Sabbath as it points to creation is meaningless this side of the fall” If this is true why did God connect the Sabbath to creation in the commandment. You also said “The moment Adam fell the Sabbath lost its significance.” What Biblical references support this idea? You said “That's why when the 2nd tablet was restored God changed the 4th commandment to a sign of redemption.” As I read scripture both in Exodus and in Deuteronomy where the second tables were written by God He said that he was doing it the same as the first. Where is the basis for your unique idea? I believe Paul in Hebrews shows how the Sabbath points to redemption. One might best describe the Sabbath as pointing to our Creator’s work both in creation of the first Adam and recreation through the second Adam. _________________________ Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 Hi everyone... This is one confusing subject for some and for others it is quite cool... So lets have a discussion about the above thread... Sticking to the above topic!!! Thankyou, your bro in Christ---T.B. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
True-believer Posted April 2, 2009 Author Posted April 2, 2009 But I guess I'm a little surprised that you're surprised that there are different views on the Sabbath. Yes, Bravus, I am very surprised about the different views of the Sabbath... and I am going to find out why... And I would like to hear from everyone in the Adventist-forum about their point of views about the Sabbath... Remembering to still to line it up with the Bible and the Bible only... Cheers... T-B Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Woody Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 This is really confusing to me. What is going on here? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Bravus Posted April 2, 2009 Moderators Posted April 2, 2009 Luke is seeing Robert saying the Saturday Sabbath doesn't matter, and others saying it does, and wondering about the inconsistency. He's hoping there's a simple clear solution. I'm surprised that he's surprised, because 7 million SDAs say it does and a billion other Christians say it doesn't. Quote Truth is important
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