New important thread--must be answered!!!

[melvin mccarty]

To understand when the days of the week began was no problem in Bible times but when people began to circumnavigate the globe they had a problem. Some went East and some went West and when they met they found they were keeping different days.

Did they solve the problem Biblically?

If the original seventh day is so important that people's salvation depends on keeping the right 24 hour period then you must know where creation commenced, How would you determine that?.....mel

[Woody]

This sounds too theological for me ... tic

Sorry. I couldn't resist. I apologize. I do ...

[Taylor]

To understand when the days of the week began was no problem in Bible times but when people began to circumnavigate the globe they had a problem. Some went East and some went West and when they met they found they were keeping different days.

Did they solve the problem Biblically?

If the original seventh day is so important that people's salvation depends on keeping the right 24 hour period then you must know where creation commenced, How would you determine that?.....mel

It's not difficult at all. You keep the Sabbath when it is the Sabbath for the time zone that you live in. The week days haven't been lost of through history nor through astronomy no through language. It isn't till recently that some european countries have the week beginning on Monday. God doesn't expect an American to keep the Sabbath at the same time as the Australian or visa versa. We just do it for the time zone we live in. What God asks us to do is possible, not impossible.

And no our salvation does not rest on the Sabbath, but it does rest on "have we stopped arguing with God?" Is God Lord of our life and not just our Savior? If God asks us to do something or to live a certain way or to trust him even if it doesn't seem "logical", we will still do it if He is Lord of our life. For instance, the tree in the garden of Eden was arbitrary..it wasn't poisenous or dangerous..it was simply a test of loyalty that is all. It was simply a test to see if Adam and Eve would believe and trust him enough to not go near the tree, or eat of it. In the same way, if God is Lord of our life, then what he asks us to do is simple...it is a trust that says "Yes Lord, even if I don't completley understand why I will trust that you know what is best for me." The Sabbath is simply "arbitrary" it is the day that God put a special blessing into, it is a special appointment where he wants to meet with man in an extra special way. Sure we can worship on any day of the week, but if we miss out on the Sabbath, we will miss on the arbitrary incredible blessing that God put on that day.

[Woody]

TU

[melvin mccarty]

This sounds too theological for me ... tic

Sorry. I couldn't resist. I apologize. I do ...

Thank you. Strange how people can

t seem to understand huh?.........mel

[Taylor]

Human philosophies usually do go in circles but God's Word is clear on the subject.

[melvin mccarty]

Human philosophies usually do go in circles but God's Word is clear on the subject.

I'd be interested to know where God's Word deals with the subject. It seems that you and I are not talking about the same subject. Please e-mail me if you care to discuss further.......mel

[melvin mccarty]

"God's word is clear on the subject". Do you mind explaining?

....mel

[melvin mccarty]

It is not as simple as it may appear to some. By the time the first day worked it's way around the earth and completed it's 24 hours everywhere 48 hours had actually passed. The 24 hours of the first day on the last time zone were the same 24 hours as the first 24 hours at the first time zone. On the East side of the date line it is still first day but on the West side of the date line it is the start of the second day. Same 24 hour period. Is that clear?....mel

[Taylor]

I am in the process of moving and haven't had the time to be on here very much nor will I be on here very much in the next couple of weeks due to packing etc. (ugh!)

This issue has everything to do with taking God at his word and keeping the Sabbath for the time zone you are in. God puts a blessing on the Sabbath for every time zone. I see it as very simple. God would never ask us to do something that wasn't possible. In heaven, Lucifer accused God's law as being too hard to keep. He wanted to be his own God and sadly the human race as a whole has followed suit.

God created this world as a globe and he never said "well it is actually a 50 hour time period...when you look at the world as a whole". No, he just said, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy". (And there is a lot of proof as to what day that is.) We will be keeping the Sabbath in heaven as well.

Again it simply boils down to "Is God Lord of our life...or is His word open to telling him, "Yes Lord, I know you said...but I think....." Not all questions will be answered till we get to heaven, but we can at least know that if we take him at His Word, we will be ok and blessed.

[melvin mccarty]

So Heaven runs on earth time you think? Do all inhabited worlds turn at the same speed? Or is it the need for a day of rest that is the issue?....mel

[Taylor]

Nope it isn't a day of rest that is the issue or God would have said "just choose any rest day and keep it". He specifically mentions the Sabbath many many times, it is important to him regardless who runs on what time. We keep the Sabbath out of love and loyalty to God. Again, the tree in the garden of Eden wasn't poisenous, it was a test of loyalty. Much the same, is the Sabbath. It may not make "sense" but it is a special day to spend with God, wherever we are, in heaven, or on earth, we keep the Sabbath for when it is Sabbath where we are. There is no mistaking when the Sabbath occures. Again, the question for all of us humans is, have we stopped arguing with God or not? If not, then it is open to all kinds of congecture and all kinds of discussion which will be endless. We can endlessly disect the Bible and take out all kinds of truths that are clearly stated such as what happens when someone dies, the "rapture", the judgement, methods of baptism etc. But if God's Word is our final authority, it will all come into focus, becuase there is a beautiful harmony throughout His word that is unmistakable.

After paying bills online..it is back to packing..yeah! (not!) lol

[nuff sed]

The test for us today isn't anymore about a day than was the test in the Garden of Eden about eating a fruit. The test, pure and simply, is whether we will obey God or not. We didn't choose the test, He did. We can talk ourselves blue in the face about why we decide not to obey fully but we cannot get away from the fact that in the Garden God said "Don't"....For our time He said "Do" (remember).

[phkrause]

Good post Gladussee

pk

[Taylor]

The test for us today isn't anymore about a day than was the test in the Garden of Eden about eating a fruit. The test, pure and simply, is whether we will obey God or not. We didn't choose the test, He did. We can talk ourselves blue in the face about why we decide not to obey fully but we cannot get away from the fact that in the Garden God said "Don't"....For our time He said "Do" (remember).

Exactly.

[melvin mccarty]

Originally Posted By: Gladussee

The test for us today isn't anymore about a day than was the test in the Garden of Eden about eating a fruit. The test, pure and simply, is whether we will obey God or not. We didn't choose the test, He did. We can talk ourselves blue in the face about why we decide not to obey fully but we cannot get away from the fact that in the Garden God said "Don't"....For our time He said "Do" (remember).

Exactly.

I really don't know how it has come to this. No one is advocating disobedience. It is just a simple fact that true exact keeping of the commandment must include the identification of the starting point of creation. Even the Jewish people have wrestled with this problem. Pardon me if I assert that I am not stupid or wierd because I am advocating that the problem needs to be studied seriously and not brushed off. ...mel

[phkrause]

As far as I know mel, and I know many Jews, since my father and all his relatives are Jewish, have never wrestled with the problem of the Sabbath.

pk

[melvin mccarty]

A simple search on the internet is all that one needs to understand how the date line does make a difference. Not a problem with the Sabbath at all. Search for sabbath and date line or jewish sabbath and date line lots of information is available. ...mel

[phkrause]

I know that Mel. I guess I miss understood, I thought you were asking. Sorry about that.

pk

[Taylor]

Originally Posted By: Taylor

Exactly. [/quote']

I really don't know how it has come to this. No one is advocating disobedience. It is just a simple fact that true exact keeping of the commandment must include the identification of the starting point of creation. Even the Jewish people have wrestled with this problem. Pardon me if I assert that I am not stupid or wierd because I am advocating that the problem needs to be studied seriously and not brushed off. ...mel

I don't think you are stupid or weird at all. I just think that the commandment is clear and when creation happened doesn't have to be determined in order to keep the Sabbath. But I did not mean ever to infer you were stupid in any way. I am truely sorry if I have made you feel that I thought that.

I do have a question for you. Do you think it is important that we keep the 7th day Sabbath or will any day do so long as we are worshiping God? I am just curious. I don't need to reiterate what I have said before...(such as it is clear which day is the Sabbath etc..), but was just curious about your personal opinion.

[melvin mccarty]

That's OK Taylor but I do wish you would take the time to investigate how the man made date line does in fact have a bearing on which day is the seventh day of the week. As it is now we are in fact saying that one day in seven is ok. It is no secret at all. The date line is reasonable and useful for travellers and traders. It is a relatively recent invention.

But when we accept it as a criteria for determining which day is the sabbath in China for instance it does not give us a correct answer. That

is unless you are convinced that God started creation on the 180th meridian. Even there we are in trouble for the line does not consistently follow the 180th but zigzags for convenience and it has been changed several times so how could it represent the starting point of creation? .....mel

[Taylor]

Well Jesus wasn't confused on which day was the Sabbath, and we haven't lost track of that day from his time on earth forward, so now I don't see the confusion at all. Jews are meticulous at keeping track of such things, perhaps for the wrong reasons, but they would not have lost track of it from Jesus time till our time. I am sure Jesus, who is our example, would not have been keeping the wrong day and thus contradict himself.

[melvin mccarty]

(sigh)

......mel

[Planey]

Mel, I believe you are the one who is being difficult and pedantic.

Sure we understand you are saying that if we knew the spot on the surface of the planet where the garden of Eden was located we could then put the international dateline slightly to the east of that and our problems would be solved, Voila!

However God has not seen fit to leave us this information. Hence we first of all must assume that the Jews in their part of the world have the right day as this was the day Jesus himself worshipped and He did not offer any corrections. And has already been observed, the Jews since that time have been meticulous in their time keeping. It should be noted that Pope Gregory also preserved the sequence of days of the week when he corrected the calendar.

Then we have the problem of travelling around the world keeping the Sabbath. There are indeed some Pacific Islands that were reached by missionaries who had travelled in opposite directions to reach said Islands and who were therefore one day apart in their week.

Now when the pioneers of our church first began to keep the Sabbath the starting and finishing times were unclear. So at first they used 6 pm as the mark, and it wasn't until further Bible study that the correct time of sunset was established. At this time Ellen White had this confirmed by her abgel in a vision. (Note by the way that this was often the way things went - the pioneers would discover a truth from the Bible and the Holy Spirit would confirm it, not that EGW would be given doctrines in dreams or visions first.)

Now if God feels that we as a group of believers keen to follow Him in all things need to shape up in this regard and do things differently surely He would impress the truth upon us somehow. The fact that He has not is, to me, an indication that following the man-made use of the current longitude lines and IDL is the correct method.

As a PS, it is notable that Adventists who live inside the Arctic Circle (not many in the Antarctic Circle!) use a 6 pm cutoff time during summer and winter where there is no sunrise or sunset to go by. This was a problem I don't believe pre-Flood people would have had as I think there is every chance that the Earth's tilt may have occurred during the Flood. Who knows.

Graeme

[phkrause]

Just to add to what you said Taylor, the Jews have been keeping the Sabbath at least since God brought them out of Egypt. And probably since Abraham?

pk