Woody Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 If the issue is important enough ... The Holy Spirit will confict the person. If not now ... later. In the mean time ... The HS brings us up at different points at different speeds. I would not worry too much. And I am a huge Sabbath supporter. I think it is OKay for different people to have different views. And I can still love them. Hey ... I don't agree with Rob on this issue but I still love the brother. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Administrators Gail Posted April 2, 2009 Administrators Posted April 2, 2009 If you look at the fourth commandment of the Ten, it doesn't say anything about when to worship. The issue is really that of rest, as God did on the 7th day of creation, to refrain from one's work. Another reason for it is also listed in Deut.5:12-15 as because God delivered them from their bondage in Egypt. I know of a couple men, firm Adventists, who were willing to worship on Sunday for fellowship in addition to resting on Sabbath (and worshipping with their fellow believers as well). Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Administrators Gail Posted April 2, 2009 Administrators Posted April 2, 2009 If the issue is important enough ... The Holy Spirit will confict the person. If not now ... later. In the mean time ... The HS brings us up at different points at different speeds. I would not worry too much. And I am a huge Sabbath supporter. I think it is OKay for different people to have different views. And I can still love them. Hey ... I don't agree with Rob on this issue but I still love the brother. I am in agreement with this, too. What does God tell you in His Word and conviction to your conscience? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Woody Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 If you look at the fourth commandment of the Ten, it doesn't say anything about when to worship. The issue is really that of rest, as God did on the 7th day of creation, to refrain from one's work. Another reason for it is also listed in Deut.5:12-15 as because God delivered them from their bondage in Egypt. I know of a couple men, firm Adventists, who were willing to worship on Sunday for fellowship in addition to resting on Sabbath (and worshipping with their fellow believers as well). Amen. This is most certainly accurate. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Robert Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 ... I don't agree with Rob on this issue but I still love the brother. I believe in the Sabbath as a sign (as in "the seal of God"), but that issue is future much like circumcision wasn't an issue to Abraham until years later. Quote
Robert Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 If you look at the fourth commandment of the Ten, it doesn't say anything about when to worship. Thank you! Quote
Amelia Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 *GP Quote: 4th Commandment: KEEP THE SABBATH DAY KJV - 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. NRSV - 8 Remember the sabbath day, and keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work. 10 But the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; you shall not do any work-you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns. 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and consecrated it. TEV - 8 "Observe the Sabbath and keep it holy. You have six days in which to do your work, but the seventh day is a day of rest dedicated to me. On that day no one is to work-neither you, your children, your slaves, your animals, nor the foreigners who live in your country. In six days I, the LORD, made the earth, the sky, the sea, and everything in them, but on the seventh day I rested. That is why I, the LORD, blessed the Sabbath and made it holy. 3 different bible versions. Each one says to keep the seventh day Sabbath. Where is the confusion? Take a look at this link. It is very interesting. http://www.the-ten-commandments.org/romancatholic-tencommandments.html Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
Robert Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 You said “the Sabbath as it points to creation is meaningless this side of the fall” If this is true why did God connect the Sabbath to creation in the commandment. Quote
Robert Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 *GP Quote: 4th Commandment: KEEP THE SABBATH DAY KJV - 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work [why?],.... For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day.... NRSV - 8 Remember the sabbath day, and keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work. [why?]11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day.... TEV - 8 "Observe the Sabbath and keep it holy. You have six days in which to do your work, but the seventh day is a day of rest dedicated to me. On that day no one is to work [why?]In six days I, the LORD, made the earth, the sky, the sea, and everything in them, but on the seventh day I rested. .... 3 different bible versions. Each one says to keep the seventh day Sabbath. Where is the confusion? Why is God asking us to rest in His imperfect and fallen creation? I mean look around - the significance of the Sabbath is meaningless. Mankind is dying...mankind is sinful...the earth is aging and coming apart. There's nothing perfect about God's creation for it is fallen thanks to Adam, Eve and Lucifer. The Sabbath was instituted at creation. It symbolized God's rest from perfection. By resting on the Sabbath Adam and Eve outwardly agreed that God's work was perfect and it was complete. God supplied all their needs...He even planted a garden. Quote
Woody Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 Quote: Take a look at this link. It is very interesting. Not a source I would refer people to but to each his own. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Amelia Posted April 2, 2009 Posted April 2, 2009 Quote: Take a look at this link. It is very interesting. Not a source I would refer people to but to each his own. Superfluous post Quote <p><span style="color:#0000FF;"><span style="font-weight:bold;"><span style="font-style:italic;">"Do not use harmful words, but only helpful words, the kind that build up and provide what is needed, so that what you say will do good to those who hear you."</span></span> Eph 4:29</span><br><br><img src="http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/gizmotimetemp_both/US/OR/Fairview.gif" alt="Fairview.gif"> Fairview Or</p>
BobRyan Posted April 3, 2009 Posted April 3, 2009 All the Christian denominations listed are our brothers and sisters in the Lord, so we ought to be there for them and respect them for how they interpret the Bible... Some could say the Sabbath is one day per week, and others will say its been transformed as a 24/7 everyday rest in Christ, and still others say its Sunday... We must NOT believe what they teach, but we can still respect them, for they are family in God's Kingdom. _________________________ That is true -- of those who break Sabbath and of those who pray to the dead and of those who worship images and of those who worship bread as though it were God and of those who teach that God does not love everyone He just saves those whom He arbitrarily "selects" and of those who teach that priests have "magic powers" to convert the soul of an infant or change bread into God or ... It is true that in ALL those cases we should always show respect and love and concern for the well-being of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
Woody Posted April 3, 2009 Posted April 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Redwood Quote: Take a look at this link. It is very interesting. Not a source I would refer people to but to each his own. Superfluous post Would you say the source is better or worse than F_ _ ? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Planey Posted April 3, 2009 Posted April 3, 2009 ...better or worse than F_ _ ? When I was young I was taught to avoid four-letter words that started with "F". It would seem from Woodie's post that the problem to be avoided now is three-letter words... Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Woody Posted April 3, 2009 Posted April 3, 2009 Don't get me wrong Planey ... I am not promoting avoiding F_ _ . But there are some here that don't want the name mentioned ... so I try to respect that. But it is the main news source for me because it is fair and balanced. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
True-believer Posted April 3, 2009 Author Posted April 3, 2009 I believe in the Sabbath as a sign (as in "the seal of God"), but that issue is future much like circumcision wasn't an issue to Abraham until years later. Well done Robert, I see more of that from the Bible as well, because the Sabbath is The Seal of God but it is future, I do believe we are in that heavenly Sabbath rest right now like Hebrews 4 says. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Robert Posted April 3, 2009 Posted April 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert I believe in the Sabbath as a sign (as in "the seal of God"), but that issue is future much like circumcision wasn't an issue to Abraham until years later. Well done Robert, I see more of that from the Bible as well, because the Sabbath is The Seal of God but it is future, I do believe we are in that heavenly Sabbath rest right now like Hebrews 4 says. The "mark of the beast" and "the seal of God" are future signs. Signs represent a truth. Make the sign the truth and you distort the issues. You see most SDA make these signs (sunday/Sabbath) an issue of worship. Nothing could be further from the truth. Instead the Sabbath is vitally connected to the gospel where Sunday is connected to salvation by works. Both are unclear right now, but when the issues become more prominent (justification by faith vs. salvation by works) then these signs will have more meaning. Here's the way I understand the Sabbath (and yes I struggle with what I do and don't do on the Sabbath). For example I don't work (as in employment) unless I have an emergency situation where I'm called in. But anyway, here's my understanding of the Sabbath: The Sabbath is God’s 7th day! It comes on Saturday….The Sabbath is a sign….It always symbolizes perfection. Specifically it always points to God’s perfect work. At creation, God rested. Why did He rest? Was He tired? No! Then why? Because His work was finished…it was complete…it was perfect. As I said before, God didn’t start working again the day after the first Sabbath. His work was done…it was finished. No improvements needed to be made. Does God’s creation need improving on now? Yes! Why? It’s ruined! So the Sabbath, while it is God’s 7th day, no longer symbolizes God’s perfect and sinless rest from creation. You see if we are to rest as God rested, we need to know why we are resting! God no longer rest in His finished work of creation because, as I said, the creation has been ruined. That’s why you'll see statements like, "My Father never stops working, so why should I?" What was their work? To redeem…save the fallen race. Now turn to Hebrews 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Who are "the people of God"? The Jews. Did they accept the gospel (enter "His rest"). No, most of them rejected it! What does Paul say? There still remains for you a "Sabbath-keeping"! Weren't the Jews keeping the Sabbath? Yes, they were keeping the day...but they were doing it from under the law, i.e., they were keeping it to be saved. That's why they didn't accept the gospel, they were good people and their legalistic Sabbath keeping proved it. Well, Paul said that they still needed to keep the Sabbath, not as it was tied to the law, but to redemption. How? Let's read verse 10: "for anyone [not just the Jew] who enters God's rest (see verse 3 - who accepts or enters the gospel of Christ] also rests from his own work, just as God did from his." Now remember, God only rests when His work is perfect...when it is complete. How is redemption...the finished work of Christ...complete and perfect? At the incarnation Christ assumed our life under the curse. For thirty something years Christ lived a perfect life in our fallen humanity and on the cross He submitted it to the justice of the law, i.e., the 2nd death. Thus "in Christ" God legally answered the whole law. Was that work of redemption perfect? Yes! Now when does Paul say we were justified [made righteous] before God? "When we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son... When Christ died we were reconciled to God. By that death we have been justified, sanctified and glorified. All these things are true of us "in Christ"! What day did Christ die? Friday afternoon just before the Sabbath. What day did God the Father rest from His perfect work of redemption? The 7th day Sabbath. Did He start improving on it the following Sunday? NO!!!!! His work was finished...His work was complete. That's why Jesus cried out, "It is finished"! Salvation is complete. You can't add to it by your works, even though we grow in grace. You stand complete "in Christ"! So the Sabbath - as the seal of God - will point to this truth. Reject this truth, when the issues come about, and you will "trampled the Son of God underfoot" and "count the blood of the covenant by which [you were] sanctified a common thing." You 'll refuse the sign of the Sabbath, which will be an outward rejection of the gospel. Rob Quote
Woody Posted April 3, 2009 Posted April 3, 2009 Quote: That's why Jesus cried out, "It is finished"! Salvation is complete. You can't add to it by your works, even though we grow in grace. You stand complete "in Christ"! I like what you said above Rob. Good stuff. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
True-believer Posted April 5, 2009 Author Posted April 5, 2009 Yeah Robert, this is plain and simple, even a dummy can understand this... LOL... Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Robert Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 Yeah Robert, this is plain and simple, even a dummy can understand this... LOL... This, to me, is the only reason for NT, NC Sabbath observance. The Sabbath no longer points to a perfect creation. Yes, once we get to heaven then it will point to a perfect re-creation (glorification), but this side of eternity it only points to a perfect and complete redemption. So yes the Sabbath is always the 7th day. It's not about worship, but since you aren't "working" (except for those who serve humanity - Doctors, police, firemen, etc.) it's a good day to worship God in a church setting. Rob Quote
Robert Posted April 5, 2009 Posted April 5, 2009 Yeah Robert, this is plain and simple, even a dummy can understand this... LOL... As in "Sabbath keeping made simple for dummies"? Or how about "Sabbath keeping made so simple that even a caveman could understand"? Quote
True-believer Posted April 6, 2009 Author Posted April 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: True-believer Yeah Robert, this is plain and simple, even a dummy can understand this... LOL... This, to me, is the only reason for NT, NC Sabbath observance. The Sabbath no longer points to a perfect creation. Yes, once we get to heaven then it will point to a perfect re-creation (glorification), but this side of eternity it only points to a perfect and complete redemption. So yes the Sabbath is always the 7th day. It's not about worship, but since you aren't "working" (except for those who serve humanity - Doctors, police, firemen, etc.) it's a good day to worship God in a church setting. Rob To me the seventh-day Sabbath is a perfect day to rest and also to focus on God and meditate on all He has done for you and is going to do for you through His Son, Jesus Christ... Sunday is also a fantastic day to attend worship services at my home Church which is Baptist by denomination, but we don't focus on denomination tags, but instead we focus on our Lord Jesus Christ every single day, but especially on the Sabbath when we're resting from our word and labour and also on Sunday when we're in Church worshipping Him. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Members phkrause Posted April 6, 2009 Members Posted April 6, 2009 And one of the most important reasons for the Sabbath is to honor our Creator. The Sabbath points to Creation. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
True-believer Posted April 6, 2009 Author Posted April 6, 2009 And one of the most important reasons for the Sabbath is to honor our Creator. The Sabbath points to Creation. pk Yes, but the Sabbath also ended at Creation, and never started back up again until Exodus 20. Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Members phkrause Posted April 7, 2009 Members Posted April 7, 2009 We don't know that. I think the sabbath was observed by Adam & Eve and was given by verbal communication down through the years. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
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