Tipping...

[GreatLakesGramma]

Once, as we were nearly finished with the addition we built on our house, my husband returned something that was wrong, and the Wolohan clerks insisted on crediting the Wolohan credit card we had charged it to, even though my husband told them we had closed the account. So I got out all of the relevant papers, and headed to town to straighten it out. I was ready to let them have it.

Thankfully, it was a long drive. And God did not leave me to do it my way. By the time I arrived, I was very firmly convicted that how I treated those men would reflect on God's character. So I was polite, respectful, and pleasant but firm as I showed them the documents, and waited while they took care of the problem. Then I thanked them with a genuine smile before I left.

I have never, ever forgotten that lesson so firmly impressed upon me on the way to that lumberyard, nor do I have any doubt whatsoever Who it came from. So I have continued to follow that conviction ever since, in every dealing with service personnel, no matter where they are, what the situation, or how they behave.

[bonnie]

Quote:

You missed a critical option. Why should I work for an unfair employer or an unfair wage when _I_ could be my own boss? I could establish my own business!!

In America and Australia it's done all of the time. So much for being forced to work with a 'gun' to your head. If an employee has no gumption or motivation to set up his/her own business... not my problem.

Waiters and waitresses do not work for three something an hour.

They do rather well considering their tips. Those that do this and do it well are quite pleased with their pay.

Two of my nieces worked their way thru college making minimum wage+tips. Many times tips would go to 75.00-100.00 per shift

Not that many are disciplined or motivated enough to be their own boss.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Not that many have the start-up money or the know-how to run their own business either.

[Liz]

Wow, I leave for just the Sabbath hours, come back, and this thread took on a life of its own...

Heh - though I suspect in reality the difference might end up being 'spat in or not spat in'.

I just wanted to say that this made me LOL---then gag a little bit, then LOL again.

[Amelia]

Now that I like. That's the way it should be. Not sure about europe. Was there a number years ago and don't recall having to tip. I would imagine that if you really want to you can.

pk

When I was in europe it was expected that you even tip the restroom attendant. And almost every restroom had one. When I was visiting back east many years ago, I was warned that I'd better tip the hotel personel or find items from my room missing. LOL

[Amelia]

Here in Oregon we don't have tip credit. So a waitress makes min wage ($8.40) in addition to tips. Other states differ.

Check here for the info

http://www.paywizard.org/main/Minimumwageandovertime/MinimumWageTIPRecevers

[bonnie]

Not that many have the start-up money or the know-how to run their own business either.

Most are not born with the know how to run their own business.

I have started three and had each suceed. Didn't take know how,it took the need of money to educate our boys.

Nor did it take start up money other than a few dollars for advertising and doing a better than average job

[Dr. Shane]

If this system is so attractive, then why don't doctors, nurses, techs and ancillary staff of hospitals establish the pay system that way, too.

[Key Guy]

We sell ourselves short (general statement) in thinking we cannot have our own business. That can be anything from mowing lawns (even with the customers' lawn mowers) to detailing cars to ironing, and that's just a small list of relatively unskilled, yet in-demand services.

The point is that we have other choices than working for 'the man' at minimum wage. Not everyone will do that, but we have that freedom and potential to grow. It takes hard work, but so what?

Bonnie said "Most are not born with the know how to run their own business." I dare say NO ONE is born with that know how.

Remember, I tip. I have not dissed a server in many years by dropping a few cents. More importantly, if I get poor service, that provider lost a repeat customer which is more of a loss anyway.

As a AAA roadside service provider I serve members who have paid a membership fee entitling them to services at no charge or a greatly reduced charge. Since they are not paying at this moment, should I give them average service? No! We are very proud of our AAA provider rating and even thank the member for being one and allowing us to serve. It makes the member feel good about being in such good care. I love tips, but I don't push for them, ask for them or even hint. It's just very cool when folks feel that they were treated well that they gave out of gratitude, not because they were obligated.

Here's the amazing part. Often there are situations requiring me to get a meal while on-the-road doing back-to-back calls. I'm not usually budgeted to buy prepared meals (rather expensive here), but I am often tipped more than the price of a decent lunch on the day I have to eat out. I have an attitude of thanksgiving that keeps me singing!

[Key Guy]

Tipped employees are typically uneducated workers working in unskilled positions.

Careful there, buddy. I could take offense to that.

[Dr. Shane]

Why should I work for an unfair employer or an unfair wage when _I_ could be my own boss? I could establish my own business!!

First, if anything is unfair it is the system, not the employer. Of course if a restaurant employer wants to be fair to his or her employees in an unfair system he or she should just add the 15% tip on to all the tickets and pay the money to the employees.

Not too many uneducated and unskilled workers can start their own business. If they knew how to run a business they wouldn't be waiting on tables.

[Key Guy]

Why would that incense someone that thinks the employer should pay the hired help more? Think about it. How is a restaurant owner going to pay the waitresses more? There is only one answer. He has to raise the cost to the customers. How can he do that? Simple. Add 15% on to each customers bill. It is entirely hypocritical for a customer to say he doesn't want to tip because the restaurant owner should pay better wages and then not be willing to pay more for his meal.

I know you are not kidding and that's bizarre. If the employer needs to pay the help more and charge more, then let's be up front about it. To advertise an inaccurate price is bogus and immoral. If an employer has to hide that extra 15% in a small print statement, that speaks volumes about the lunacy of that owner and the folks that support that kind of business ethic.

We know he won't do that because he'll lose a certain amount of business from those of us that think the increase won't be worth the goods or services provided. So, he'll resort to purposely misleading the customer.

[bonnie]

We sell ourselves short (general statement) in thinking we cannot have our own business. That can be anything from mowing lawns (even with the customers' lawn mowers) to detailing cars to ironing, and that's just a small list of relatively unskilled, yet in-demand services.

The point is that we have other choices than working for 'the man' at minimum wage. Not everyone will do that, but we have that freedom and potential to grow. It takes hard work, but so what?

Bonnie said "Most are not born with the know how to run their own business." I dare say NO ONE is born with that know how.

Remember, I tip. I have not dissed a server in many years by dropping a few cents. More importantly, if I get poor service, that provider lost a repeat customer which is more of a loss anyway.

More an more we are becoming a nation of victims.

So many use "I can't","I don't have the money" It is the employer's fault,he makes me work for this,the government won't pay our health care,I couldn't afford college and on and on.

Many customer service jobs can actually pay more than if you have a college degree.

I cleaned house for a cleaning company. I wanted and needed more money. By the end of the year I had 4 full time and 2 part time working for me. Making more money than some of the people I cleaned for.

I can't count the number of people I know that have done the same only bigger and better

[Key Guy]

Quote:

Not too many uneducated and unskilled workers can start their own business. If they knew how to run a business they wouldn't be waiting on tables.

Remember Ben Carson's mama? She provided domestic services and put the boys through school, etc. It can be done. Don't keep selling humans short.

[Key Guy]

Quote:

if anything is unfair it is the system, not the employer.

Doesn't matter. Either can be overcome.

[Dr. Shane]

> No, tipping is NOT part of the 'wage'. It is a bonus for doing a great job.

[bonnie]

Quote:

First, if anything is unfair it is the system, not the employer. Of course if a restaurant employer wants to be fair to his or her employees in an unfair system he or she should just add the 15% tip on to all the tickets and pay the money to the employees.

Part of the reason for the wage is the tips they receive. Are they overpaid,not likely. Most people believe they are worth more than their salary

Quote:

Not too many uneducated and unskilled workers can start their own business. If they knew how to run a business they wouldn't be waiting on tables.

It is not the education or the skill that holds most back. They want more pay and resent their employer's, but lack the motivation and the push to do better

[Dr. Shane]

Waiters and waitresses do not work for three something an hour.

They do rather well considering their tips. Those that do this and do it well are quite pleased with their pay.

Two of my nieces worked their way thru college making minimum wage+tips. Many times tips would go to 75.00-100.00 per shift

Not that many are disciplined or motivated enough to be their own boss.

This has been basically my point. Many of these tipped jobs like waiting tables or driving a cab are the only way an uneducated and unskilled worker can make a decent living. They get paid minimum wage but the minimum wage for tipped employees is lower than the regular minimum wage. The wages the employer is actually paying them is used to pay the taxes on their tips.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma

Not that many have the start-up money or the know-how to run their own business either.

Most are not born with the know how to run their own business.

I have started three and had each suceed. Didn't take know how,it took the need of money to educate our boys.

I have worked with scores of subcontractors that went out on their own and lost everything because they didn't know how to run a business. Many of these people are good masons, painters, electricians, plumbers, etc. but don't know how to run a business. The idea that a waitress could go out on her own and start her own restaurant is preposterous.

[GreatLakesGramma]

It is not the education or the skill that holds most back. They want more pay and resent their employer's, but lack the motivation and the push to do better

That sounds like a lot of people. They resent when business owners make more a lot money than their employees, and feel exploited. But none of the critics would be willing to work as hard, invest so much of their own money, take so much responsibility and stress upon themselves, work without pay when business is slow for an extended periods, etc.

[bonnie]

Quote:

I have worked with scores of subcontractors that went out on their own and lost everything because they didn't know how to run a business. Many of these people are good masons, painters, electricians, plumbers, etc. but don't know how to run a business. The idea that a waitress could go out on her own and start her own restaurant is preposterous.

I said nothing about a restaurant. What a waitress can do is give 110% and start working towards something else.

My husband went on his own in housing construction. Blame hard to make it but he knew he had to.

Many businesses fail. Then you need to start again,even if it is going back to work for someone and developing the skills you need.

Classes are free here in many towns. Helping those that wish to get off welfare or someone wanting to better themselves.

The only problem with the classes is they cannot drag people in. Some towns have stopped offering because of low attendence

[Dr. Shane]

If the employer needs to pay the help more and charge more, then let's be up front about it. To advertise an inaccurate price is bogus and immoral. If an employer has to hide that extra 15% in a small print statement

First, an honorable customer will have the intent to pay the 15% tip when they enter the restaurant. Secondly, it is a matter of opinion that the employer is "hiding" the statement that the 15% will be added to the bill. If it is on the menu that is very good. I have been to restaurants where it is only posted at the cash registrar.

[GreatLakesGramma]

I have worked with scores of subcontractors that went out on their own and lost everything because they didn't know how to run a business. Many of these people are good masons, painters, electricians, plumbers, etc. but don't know how to run a business. The idea that a waitress could go out on her own and start her own restaurant is preposterous.

Exactly. My daughter's employer (former employer now) is going under because he is incompetent at running a business - not because of the economy, which is actually still strong where they are, nor because they didn't do good work, or didn't have enough contracts.

[Dr. Shane]

As a AAA roadside service provider... I love tips, but I don't push for them, ask for them or even hint.

I have been a AAA member for many years and never knew that anyone tipped wrecker drivers. It certainly is a skilled position since they have to have a commercial driver's license.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

It is not the education or the skill that holds most back. They want more pay and resent their employer's, but lack the motivation and the push to do better

That sounds like a lot of people. They resent when business owners make more a lot money than their employees, and feel exploited. But none of the critics would be willing to work as hard, invest so much of their own money, take so much responsibility and stress upon themselves, work without pay when business is slow for an extended periods, etc.

Many business owners do work periods of time where the only ones that get paid are their employee's.

We could go up to three months without a pay check.

What we didn't know we made sure we learned. If we hadn't we could not have kept our boys at boarding school or kept our home.

We are a country of complainers. "Life is not fair" "We deserve to get more"

Life has never been fair and is unlikely to become fair.

I shop wal-mart a lot. One of the greeters really about breaks your heart. In a wheelchair and hand movement is slow but she is the most pleasant you could find.

Funny,how she speaks of God being so good as to lead her to wal-mart where she could have a chance to pay her own way