Worship the Creator not the destroyer

[Lutz13]

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Because God can require that off of any individual, He has that right and does not sin by requiring it.

I'm not able to believe that. This whole controversy is Satan saying it is impossible to follow Gods law. God is saying it is possible. What kind of case would that give our Creator if He broke His own laws?

Satan could point and say "See, I told you so. My way is much better!"

[Twilight]

But God has not said that He cannot kill or take life.

Only that man does not have that right.

Would be my view here.

Remember the Lord works on the Sabbath as well...

Twilight

[Twilight]

Its a bit like finding a dying dog that has been knocked over by the side of the road.

Then saying, "I better wait until someone bad comes along so that they can kill the dog for me."

There are times when God is justified in removing life and He does have that right.

We do not have that right.

That would balance the scriptures for me.

Twilight.

[Lutz13]

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But God has not said that He cannot kill or take life.

Why does Jesus call Satan a murderer then? Wouldn't that make Him a hypocrite?

Also, before the fall. Gods law was written in mens hearts. Our characters were just like our God. When we fell to sin, our characters became just like Satan's. Did God ever kill before us? Why would He change now if He says He is the same yesterday, today and forever?

Ultimately if what you say is true. God is also a murderer. Since that is one of His characteristics. I also would like His character, is it ok for me to go out and murder someone because they did something wrong to me?

Jesus was our Creator. What was He like? He came to show us how to be saved. We are to become one with Him, just like He is one with the father. Can you see Jesus telling His disciples to kill anyone who doesn't agree? Isn't that what they wanted to do because they were used to a murderous God? They asked if Jesus wanted them to call fire down on those people. Jesus rebuked them and said. NO!! You do not know what spirit you are of. I came to save men not destroy them.

[Lutz13]

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Its a bit like finding a dying dog that has been knocked over by the side of the road.

So all of those cities the children of Israel over ran were like a dying dog? How so? Weren't they people too? If God says "thou shalt not kill" why would He ask men to openly break His commandments?

I'm sure you are aware of the dark ages. The Catholic system could easily be compared to Israel. They both murdered those who didn't agree with them. I'm sure the crusaders referred to the Old Testament when they would say GOD WILLS IT! OR "to kill an infidel isn't murder, it's the pathway to heaven!"

They thought they were doing Gods will.

[Lutz13]

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There are times when God is justified in removing life and He does have that right.

If I am to emulate Gods character, then He better be good too. Also, if God "sometimes" has to take life. Why didn't He just kill Satan to stop all of this?

[Lutz13]

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I can only speak for myself, but I want the Law fulfilled in my life and in my Character, I want to be like Jesus.

Ok, I need to be really careful with this one. I do not want to offend and if I do, I apologize as I am not perfect.

You say God has to kill and you are asking for His character. A character is someones traits. This God you believe in obviously has the traits of a killer. So, you are asking to be a murderer just like Him.

Remember...The Jews thought they were worshiping God as well. What did Jesus say?

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Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own; for he is a liar, and the father of it.--- John 8:44

This is the last message to the world. Ellen White stated that the last message would reveal Gods true character.

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He causes "the light to shine out of darkness." 2 Cor. 4:6. When "the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep," "the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light; and there was light." Gen. 1:2,3. So in the night of spiritual darkness, God's word goes forth, "Let there be light." To His people He says, "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee." Isa. 60:1.

"Behold," says the Scripture, "the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people; but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and His glory shall be seen upon thee." Isa. 60:2.

It is the darkness of misapprehension of God that is enshrouding the world. Men are losing their knowledge of His character. It has been misunderstood and misinterpreted. At this time a message from God is to be proclaimed, a message illuminating in its influence and saving in its power. His character is to be made known. Into the darkness of the world is to be shed the light of His glory, the light of His goodness, mercy, and truth.

This is the work outlined by the prophet Isaiah in the words, "O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God! Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and His arm shall rule for Him; behold, His reward is with Him, and His work before Him." Isa. 40:9,10.

Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.

---CoL 415

The message is, God is not a killer. He is love. God never takes, but gives! You will see. Soon this message will get very loud. Open your eyes. It is soooo clear and beautiful!

[Lutz13]

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The ethics inculcated by the gospel acknowledge no standard but the perfection of God's mind, God's will. God requires from His creatures conformity to His will. Imperfection of character is sin, and sin is the transgression of the law. All righteous attributes of character dwell in God as a perfect, harmonious whole. Every one who receives Christ as his personal Saviour is privileged to possess these attributes. This is the science of holiness. . . . {TMK 131.2}

The glory of God is His character. . . . This character was revealed in the life of Christ. That He might by His own example condemn sin in the flesh, He took upon Himself the likeness of sinful flesh. Constantly He beheld the character of God; constantly He revealed this character to the world. Christ desires His followers to reveal in their lives this same character. {TMK 131.3}

Why is this so clear to me, and not others. I don't understand.

[Robert]

Who was it that ordered the death sentance against the Isrealite for picking up sticks Robert?

Twilight

It was never God'sintention that the Jews would line themselves under the law. God was simply giving them what the law required. He couldn't save this man because the Jews desired to be under the law. I'm sorry you can't see this.

[Robert]

I can only speak for myself, but I want the Law fulfilled in my life and in my Character, I want to be like Jesus.

But that is another topic I suspect. :-)

Twilight

But do you want to be under the jurisdiction of the law like the Jews? If so you must die because no matter how much you desire to be like Christ the fact is you are falling short of God's selfless love.

[Lutz13]

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Its a bit like finding a dying dog that has been knocked over by the side of the road.

Also, you are comparing us with God. God is clear on this one.

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For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. ---Isiah 55:8-9

[Robert]

But God has not said that He cannot kill or take life.

Only that man does not have that right.

Would be my view here.

Remember the Lord works on the Sabbath as well...

Twilight

The first four are issues of faith so of course God doesn't keep those, but the last six are what Paul terms "the whole law"! Further more God is agape and agape, says Paul, is the fulfillment of the law. What law? Here, read the context:

Romans 13:9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Agape your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore agape is the fulfillment of the law.

Again, God is agape. God is love. Hence God is the fulfillment of "love your neighbor as yourself". He can not fulfill the law if He murders. He then becomes a sinner.

[Robert]

Its a bit like finding a dying dog that has been knocked over by the side of the road.

Then saying, "I better wait until someone bad comes along so that they can kill the dog for me."

Ah, but your version of God would do worse than that. He would find the dying dog and then burn it alive. Why not just allow it to go to sleep?

[Robert]

2 Thess 2:3 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first [apostasy from the true gospel], and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains [God] will do so until he [the man of sin] is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and deceptive wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth [Jesus], that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Let no one deceive you? Well, God or Satan?

1] "the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and deceptive wonders"

or

2] "for this reason God will send them strong delusion"

Who is doing the deceiving? Titus 1:2 states God can't lie. Deception...delusion is a lie.

Well, that leaves Satan doesn't it? Then why did God say He does it? Yes? Cat got your tongues???? teehe

No answers, huh?

[Lutz13]

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No answers, huh?

No, cause I agree....

[Robert]

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No answers, huh?

No, cause I agree....

Well, sure...I know you do, but what of the others? I mean there it is in plain English. Satan is said to send delusions, but God states He does also. Who done it?

Clearly the devil, but since God is sovereign and since God has allowed Satan to develop his brand of self-love, God assumes the blame. That's why you see statements such as the following:

"I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Is 45:7

And the LORD said unto him [Moses], Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Ex 4:11

God is assuming the responsibility of all the fall out from allowing Lucifer to develop his brand of self-love. However, that is not the same as blame. Satan is to blame....

[True-believer]

[True-believer]

Um, Robert, no the cat doesn't have my tongue.

[Robert]

Um, Robert, no the cat doesn't have my tongue.

Okay...then what's the answer?

[Lutz13]

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But Moses was clearly dealing with Jesus all along, through the exodus and wilderness.

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Not until the death of Christ was the character of Satan clearly revealed to the angels or to the unfallen worlds.--- DA 758

If a unfallen holy being was not able to clearly see who was doing what. How do you expect a sinful man to know?

[Planey]

Robert, I am pleased to see that you stick solidly to your principle of sola sequeira.

Graeme

[Robert]

Robert, I am pleased to see that you stick solidly to your principle of sola sequeira.

Graeme

You are welcome....You see I read the Bible....I read Sequeira expositions of the Bible. I agree with him. I have limited communication and writing skills....He says it better so I quote him....

ROb

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Planey

Robert, I am pleased to see that you stick solidly to your principle of sola sequeira.

Graeme

You are welcome....You see I read the Bible....I read Sequeira expositions of the Bible. I agree with him. I have limited communication and writing skills....He says it better so I quote him....

ROb

Way to go Rob. And I do appreciate the way Jack puts things and appreciate that you are able to share it with us.

Keep up the good work.

I am blessed.

[Lutz13]

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Sequeira expositions of the Bible.

What is that?

[True-believer]

Originally Posted By: Robert

[/quote']

The answer is plain and simple...

It's the second to last line and the fourth word of Robert's post above.