Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

[Robert]

"whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully." 2 Cor 9:6 ESV

[Robert]

Apparently you didn't read Luke 6:30

Give to everyone who asks you....31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Ditto....

Rob

[Robert]

Good, we all agree then....

Rob

[Robert]

It's ironic that SDA, like Gerry, say to love our neighbor we must love ourselves first. This, I believe, is the greatest lie ever manufactured by Lucifer for he found "agape" too restrictive also.

Here's an non-Adventist's view of what it means to "love your neighbor as yourself":

Read me

[Robert]

Matthew 22:36-40- Jesus gives two great commandments: (1) Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind; (2) Love our neighbor as yourself — there is no third command to love yourself. Jesus is saying, “as you already love yourself” — “as” is used in the same way in Eph 5:25,28,33 indicating a state of current existence, not a command. Jesus knows we already love ourselves and thereby commands us to love others with this same commitment.

Lk 10:25-37- Example given by Jesus to illustrate the “love neighbor as yourself” command, presents a story of self-sacrifice (not self-love) towards an object of hate (a Samaritan)!

Matthew 16:24,25- Deny self, i.e., say no to self; not told to self-affirm, self-gratify, or self-actualize.

Lk 9:23- Deny self, i.e., put self to death, daily; not told to self-affirm, self-gratify, or self-actualize.

Matthew 20:26,27- The great are the servants, not the ones served.

Matthew 23:11,12- The great are the servants; the humble will be exalted.

Lk 22:24-27- The servant is the greatest, not the proud.

Lk 14:26- Cannot be a disciple of Jesus, unless deny even yourself.

2 Tim 3:2-5- “Lovers of Self” listed with other “detestable” sins such as slanderers, the treacherous, abusive, proud, conceited; therefore, high self-esteem/pride is a sin!

Jn 12:25- Lover of one’s own life (self) will lose eternal life.

Jn 13:16,17- Humble service is a command.

Jn 15:5- Apart from God, i.e., lover of self vs. lover of God, you can do nothing.

1 Cor 1:18,19- Message of the cross (denial of self) is foolishness to those perishing (i.e., to the psychological self-worshipers).

1 Cor 4:3-5- Objective judgments are ours to make, but those regarding overall worth or esteem belong to the Lord.

1 Cor 13:2- Self-esteem advocates teach we must be of value to ourselves in order to be able to love others, but God tells us that we are nothing, unless and until we love others.

1 Cor 13:4,5- Definitions of what love is not — not envy, not boasting, not proud, and not self-seeking.

2 Cor 3:5- No competence in ourselves (no pride), but only from God.

2 Cor 5:15- Live for Christ, via humble service, not for yourself.

2 Cor 10:12,18- Look to Christ for comparison, not to yourself; i.e., no self-esteem gospel.

Eph 3:8; 1 Tim 1:15; Rom 7:24- Sounds as if Paul has a terrible self-esteem problem! Paul recognizes his rotten condition, to be resolved only through the gospel of the cross, which is a “humble servant” attitude.

Rom 12:3b — Don’t think of yourself too highly, but with sober judgment — notice that Paul makes no mention of the possibility of one under-valuing himself.

Gal 6:3,4- Sober evaluation should be made not on the basis of how one is doing in comparison with others, but by comparing oneself with Scriptural standards, and of course, Scriptural standards stress humility and putting self

to death (denial of self), not boosting one’s self-esteem.

1 Cor 10:24- Nobody should ever seek his own good, but the good of others.

Eph 5:21- Submit to others for Christ’s sake: i.e., humble submission, not pride.

2 Cor 11:30- If boast in anything, boast in weakness!

Phil 2:3- Do not act out of self-concerns, but for others, and then in humility.

Heb 13:17- Submit to your spiritual leaders, not your self-desires.

1 Pet 5:5-7- Be humble toward others because God opposes the proud.

Col 3:12- Christians should clothe themselves in humility.

Eph 4:2- We are commanded to be completely humble and gentle.

James 4:10- Humility leads to esteem — esteem from the Lord.

Lk 6:31- The golden rule: Jesus could confidently make this statement because He knew we already loved ourselves; i.e., if hating ourselves was our natural condition (as the “self-esteemers” tell us), then it would make us happy to be treated badly (as it would confirm our hateful feelings of ourselves), and Jesus would, thereby, be telling us to treat others with the same contempt and loathing that we desire for ourselves.

Lk 6:32- The fact that Jesus refers to “sinners” (i.e., enemies of God) as practicing the, “I’ll love you if you love me first,” philosophy, the self-esteem teaching that, “You have to love yourself before you are able to love others,” must, thereby, also be rejected as being ungodly.

1 Jn 2:16,17- Man’s “boasting of what he has and does” (i.e., self-esteem/pride) is not the will of God, but is “of the world.”

Phil 2:5-8- One’s “attitude should be the same as Christ Jesus” — i.e., “made Himself nothing,” “taking the form of a servant,” “humbled Himself,” “became obedient to death.” In general, one should have an attitude of a humble

servant-loving, self-sacrificing, compassionate, submissive, obedient, courageous, and holy — i.e., no “selfisms” at all, only “otherisms”!

2 Cor 12:6,7- Even though Paul would have possibly been warranted in having a so-called “healthy” self-esteem, he refused to boast; God, also, didn’t want Paul to have high self-esteem — i.e., conceit.

Not my work....Googled it...

[BobRyan]

Jesus through Moses gave the command to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18

Jesus also through Moses gave the command to "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5.

Is it any wonder that people want to toss the scriptures out the window these days?

in Christ,

Bob

[Twilight]

I am a little confused by your point Robert and here is why:

Imagine getting to heaven and this conversation happens with an angel:

-------------------------------------

Saved Person: "I love everyone here."

Angel: "That is good."

Saved Person: "With on exception.."

Angel: "Oh?"

Saved Person: "I do not love myself."

Angel: "Why not?"

Saved Person: "Because my friend on earth, told me that I should not love myself at all, so that means, if I love myself, I have sinned."

Angel: "Isn't that a little confusing?"

Saved Person: "Why?"

Angel: "Because you are commanded to love everybody with Agape love, including yourself. The absence of love is hatred, or at very best a lack of personal care for oneself is a neglect of self, both of those happen to be a sin..."

Saved Person: "Oh... So what do I do?"

Angel: "Love thy neighbour as thyself..."

Saved Person: "But what about my friend?"

Angel: "Do you follow your friend or Jesus?"

God bless,

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Let us not confuse the love of our "sinful self" with the love of our "born again self"...

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

The angel further responded:

"So if everyone in heaven has to love you, why do you think you are not supposed to love yourself?"

Saved Person: "Good point...."

Mark :-)

[Gerr]

Matthew 22:36-40- Jesus gives two great commandments: (1) Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind; (2) Love our neighbor as yourself — there is no third command to love yourself. Jesus is saying, “as you already love yourself” — “as” is used in the same way in Eph 5:25,28,33 indicating a state of current existence, not a command. Jesus knows we already love ourselves and thereby commands us to love others with this same commitment.

Lk 10:25-37- Example given by Jesus to illustrate the “love neighbor as yourself” command, presents a story of self-sacrifice (not self-love) towards an object of hate (a Samaritan)!

Matthew 16:24,25- Deny self, i.e., say no to self; not told to self-affirm, self-gratify, or self-actualize.

Lk 9:23- Deny self, i.e., put self to death, daily; not told to self-affirm, self-gratify, or self-actualize.

Matthew 20:26,27- The great are the servants, not the ones served.

Matthew 23:11,12- The great are the servants; the humble will be exalted.

Lk 22:24-27- The servant is the greatest, not the proud.

Lk 14:26- Cannot be a disciple of Jesus, unless deny even yourself.

2 Tim 3:2-5- “Lovers of Self” listed with other “detestable” sins such as slanderers, the treacherous, abusive, proud, conceited; therefore, high self-esteem/pride is a sin!

Jn 12:25- Lover of one’s own life (self) will lose eternal life.

Jn 13:16,17- Humble service is a command.

Jn 15:5- Apart from God, i.e., lover of self vs. lover of God, you can do nothing.

1 Cor 1:18,19- Message of the cross (denial of self) is foolishness to those perishing (i.e., to the psychological self-worshipers).

1 Cor 4:3-5- Objective judgments are ours to make, but those regarding overall worth or esteem belong to the Lord.

1 Cor 13:2- Self-esteem advocates teach we must be of value to ourselves in order to be able to love others, but God tells us that we are nothing, unless and until we love others.

1 Cor 13:4,5- Definitions of what love is not — not envy, not boasting, not proud, and not self-seeking.

2 Cor 3:5- No competence in ourselves (no pride), but only from God.

2 Cor 5:15- Live for Christ, via humble service, not for yourself.

2 Cor 10:12,18- Look to Christ for comparison, not to yourself; i.e., no self-esteem gospel.

Eph 3:8; 1 Tim 1:15; Rom 7:24- Sounds as if Paul has a terrible self-esteem problem! Paul recognizes his rotten condition, to be resolved only through the gospel of the cross, which is a “humble servant” attitude.

Rom 12:3b — Don’t think of yourself too highly, but with sober judgment — notice that Paul makes no mention of the possibility of one under-valuing himself.

Gal 6:3,4- Sober evaluation should be made not on the basis of how one is doing in comparison with others, but by comparing oneself with Scriptural standards, and of course, Scriptural standards stress humility and putting self

to death (denial of self), not boosting one’s self-esteem.

1 Cor 10:24- Nobody should ever seek his own good, but the good of others.

Eph 5:21- Submit to others for Christ’s sake: i.e., humble submission, not pride.

2 Cor 11:30- If boast in anything, boast in weakness!

Phil 2:3- Do not act out of self-concerns, but for others, and then in humility.

Heb 13:17- Submit to your spiritual leaders, not your self-desires.

1 Pet 5:5-7- Be humble toward others because God opposes the proud.

Col 3:12- Christians should clothe themselves in humility.

Eph 4:2- We are commanded to be completely humble and gentle.

James 4:10- Humility leads to esteem — esteem from the Lord.

Lk 6:31- The golden rule: Jesus could confidently make this statement because He knew we already loved ourselves; i.e., if hating ourselves was our natural condition (as the “self-esteemers” tell us), then it would make us happy to be treated badly (as it would confirm our hateful feelings of ourselves), and Jesus would, thereby, be telling us to treat others with the same contempt and loathing that we desire for ourselves.

Lk 6:32- The fact that Jesus refers to “sinners” (i.e., enemies of God) as practicing the, “I’ll love you if you love me first,” philosophy, the self-esteem teaching that, “You have to love yourself before you are able to love others,” must, thereby, also be rejected as being ungodly.

1 Jn 2:16,17- Man’s “boasting of what he has and does” (i.e., self-esteem/pride) is not the will of God, but is “of the world.”

Phil 2:5-8- One’s “attitude should be the same as Christ Jesus” — i.e., “made Himself nothing,” “taking the form of a servant,” “humbled Himself,” “became obedient to death.” In general, one should have an attitude of a humble

servant-loving, self-sacrificing, compassionate, submissive, obedient, courageous, and holy — i.e., no “selfisms” at all, only “otherisms”!

2 Cor 12:6,7- Even though Paul would have possibly been warranted in having a so-called “healthy” self-esteem, he refused to boast; God, also, didn’t want Paul to have high self-esteem — i.e., conceit.

Not my work....Googled it...

ALL your quotes hang upon two laws: 1. You shall love the Lord your God will your heart 2. You are to love your neighbor as yourself.

Do your quotes invalidate the laws they are derived from?

[Gerr]

Good, we all agree then....

Rob

Now you are agreeing with yourself?

[Robert]

Because you are commanded to love everybody with Agape love, including yourself. The absence of love is hatred)

Lie!!!!

Show me (and I'm tired of the dishonesty with Gerry, and now you) where it commands self-love in the phrase, "you shall love your neighbor as yourself".

The opposite of self-love is not hate. You see a person who hates himself is still focused on self. It's still self-love, but because he can't compete and/or measure up to others he hates that about himself. But it's still centered in self....And so, because of self-love, you get envy, jealousy, etc.

Rob

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

Good, we all agree then....

Rob

Now you are agreeing with yourself?

BTW, where's that $100,000 check?

Apparently you didn't read Luke 6:30

Give to everyone who asks you....31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Like I said, you are too busy loving yourself, therefore you can't love others. You can't follow what Christ said in Luke 6:30. You are like the RYR: "All these commandments I have kept, what lack I?"

[Robert]

You see a person who hates himself is still focused on self. It's still self-love, but because he can't compete and/or measure up to others he hates that about himself. But it's still centered in self....And so, because of self-love, you get envy, jealousy, etc.

Examples:

Female: "I wish I was beautiful like so and so....Instead I'm ugly...I hate myself."

Notice the focus is still on self! She is coveting...she wants to be something she is not and so her life is miserable. Why? The focus is self-centered. Hence self-love brings misery along with pride....

Rob

[Robert]

Did you know that Jesus, as the son of man, wasn't anything to look at?

Is 53:1 Who has believed our message? To whom will the LORD reveal his saving power? 2 My servant grew up in the LORD's presence like a tender green shoot, sprouting from a root in dry and sterile ground. There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance, nothing to attract us to him. 3 He was despised and rejected – a man of sorrows, acquainted with bitterest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way when he went by. He was despised, and we did not care.

Funny, I never heard Jesus say, "I wish I was better looking". Why? The focus was never on self.

Our self-focus brings problems. To the beautiful comes narcissism and conceit, high mindedness, etc. But sooner or later these folks wrinkle up and feel their mortality. Then what? They turn to alcohol, and other distractions, to deal with their reality....Why? They're self-consumed!

Self-love brings misery. What did EGW say? In heaven no one will think of self....They won't be preoccupied with self, they will be preoccupied with the welfare of others. Their ambition in life will be the happiness of others.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Because you are commanded to love everybody with Agape love, including yourself. The absence of love is hatred)

Lie!!!!

Show me (and I'm tired of the dishonesty with Gerry, and now you) where it commands self-love in the phrase, "you shall love your neighbor as yourself".

The opposite of self-love is not hate. You see a person who hates himself is still focused on self. It's still self-love, but because he can't compete and/or measure up to others he hates that about himself. But it's still centered in self....And so, because of self-love, you get envy, jealousy, etc.

Rob

In this text there is an equality of love Robert.

Let us go back to our theoretical conversation:

The Angel responded:

"If you do not love yourself, how can you love another? Is not the price that Jesus payed for you, an example of His depth of love for you?"

"If Jesus loves "you", then surely you have to have the same regard for "you"... Remember of course, that Jesus expressed care for self on a number of occassions, through the cry "my God, why have you forsaken me", so there is a healthy form of respect and love for oneself that God actively encourages."

Saint: "Oh, I see..."

------------------------------------

God bless,

Mark

[Twilight]

Did you know that Jesus, as the son of man, wasn't anything to look at?

Is 53:1 Who has believed our message? To whom will the LORD reveal his saving power? 2 My servant grew up in the LORD's presence like a tender green shoot, sprouting from a root in dry and sterile ground. There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance, nothing to attract us to him. 3 He was despised and rejected – a man of sorrows, acquainted with bitterest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way when he went by. He was despised, and we did not care.

Funny, I never heard Jesus say, "I wish I was better looking". Why? The focus was never on self.

Our self-focus brings problems. To the beautiful comes narcissism and conceit, high mindedness, etc. But sooner or later these folks wrinkle up and feel their mortality. Then what? They turn to alcohol, and other distractions, to deal with their reality....Why? They're self-consumed!

Self-love brings misery. What did EGW say? In heaven no one will think of self....They won't be preoccupied with self, they will be preoccupied with the welfare of others. Their ambition in life will be the happiness of others.

As an aside...

It is a strange logic that rejects Ellen White Robert, then wants to refer to her when it suits...

Why do you do that my friend?

Mark

[Robert]

You are being dishonest with the text. There's only one command! You are to love your neighbor AS you naturally love yourself. It doesn't say you are to love your neighbor and love yourself. Why? Because it is quite evident from Scripture that we are born bent-to-self. Again, look at our love of self by birth:

Self-centered by birth

[Robert]

It is a strange logic that rejects Ellen White Robert, then wants to refer to her when it suits...

Why do you do that my friend?

Mark

Why do you lie? I have never said I reject Ellen White. I've consistently stated that she had limited light and that she is not the measuring stick of truth - the Bible is. She is the lesser light, but that doesn't mean she has nothing good to say. Please get your facts right, or does your love of self get in the way?

Rob

[Lutz13]

There is a problem with being in love with self. "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."(Matthew 16:25) If you have self love, are you going to be willing to give up your life? Would you take a bullet for your enemy? I'm not sure if many of you have noticed this or not. But Jesus, our God revealed that He loves us more than He loves Himself.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

It is a strange logic that rejects Ellen White Robert, then wants to refer to her when it suits...

Why do you do that my friend?

Mark

Why do you lie? I have never said I reject Ellen White. I've consistently stated that she had limited light and that she is not the measuring stick of truth - the Bible is. She is the lesser light, but that doesn't mean she has nothing good to say. Please get your facts right, or does your love of self get in the way?

Rob

I was under the impression that you do not accept Ellen White.

My apologies, now I know that you accept Ellen White as a prophet, I will be free to quote balancing statements in your direction.

What I do consider interesting is that only self would make the following statement:

or does your love of self get in the way?

Why?

Because it is judgmental, it assumes to know the motives of another and it draws to itself all right to condemn another without any understanding of their spiritual developement.

Self likes to denounce self in others, thereby hiding its own hypocrisy. I have had to deal with this in my own character in the past and guard against in the present.

May I suggest that you need to consider doing the same Robert.

Time and time again you denounce others when they do not agree with you.

Earlier in this thread you inferred that myself and Gerry are liars, which was very unpleasant and unloving...

Yet you purpote to be teaching the only true understanding of "love" or "agape love".

Your words and your fruits have a strange inconsistency that I and others have pointed out to you before.

We should step down in our minds from the role of the Judge and Jury of others (which I suspect is the case here on the basis of the fruits you consistently display), then it will be much easier for people to take us seriously when we try to express our understanding of something.

In love :-)

Mark

[Twilight]

There is a problem with being in love with self. "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."(Matthew 16:25) If you have self love, are you going to be willing to give up your life? Would you take a bullet for your enemy? I'm not sure if many of you have noticed this or not. But Jesus, our God revealed that He loves us more than He loves Himself.

But that does not mean that He did not have a healthy respect of self Lutz.

That is the issue here.

It is the privilege of everyone to so live that God will approve and bless him. You may be hourly in communion with Heaven; it is not the will of your heavenly Father that you should ever be under condemnation and darkness. It is not pleasing to God that you should demerit yourself. You should cultivate self-respect by living so that you will be approved by your own conscience, and before men and angels. . . . It is your privilege to go to Jesus and be cleansed, and to stand before the law without shame and remorse. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom. 8:1. While we should not think of ourselves more highly than we ought, the Word of God does not condemn a proper self-respect. As sons and daughters of God, we should have a conscious dignity of character, in which pride and self-importance have no part. {OHC 143.4}

we should have a conscious dignity of character, in which pride and self-importance have no part.

So it is pride and self-importance that need dealing with...

That does not mean we should not love, care and have a sense of our own dignity in Christ...

God bless,

Mark

[Lutz13]

But that does not mean that He did not have a healthy respect of self Lutz.

That is the issue here.

It is the privilege of everyone to so live that God will approve and bless him. You may be hourly in communion with Heaven; it is not the will of your heavenly Father that you should ever be under condemnation and darkness. It is not pleasing to God that you should demerit yourself. You should cultivate self-respect by living so that you will be approved by your own conscience, and before men and angels. . . . It is your privilege to go to Jesus and be cleansed, and to stand before the law without shame and remorse. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom. 8:1. While we should not think of ourselves more highly than we ought, the Word of God does not condemn a proper self-respect. As sons and daughters of God, we should have a conscious dignity of character, in which pride and self-importance have no part. {OHC 143.4}

we should have a conscious dignity of character, in which pride and self-importance have no part.

So it is pride and self-importance that need dealing with...

That does not mean we should not love, care and have a sense of our own dignity in Christ...

God bless,

Mark

I'm not suggesting that we have to be emo and slashing our wrist on a daily basis. We have to stop looking to ourselves and focus on others. I wouldn't consider self respect and self love the same thing. If I take a bullet for one of my enemies, it is showing that I love that individual more than myself. If I am full of self love, I doubt I would do such a thing.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

But that does not mean that He did not have a healthy respect of self Lutz.

That is the issue here.

It is the privilege of everyone to so live that God will approve and bless him. You may be hourly in communion with Heaven; it is not the will of your heavenly Father that you should ever be under condemnation and darkness. It is not pleasing to God that you should demerit yourself. You should cultivate self-respect by living so that you will be approved by your own conscience, and before men and angels. . . . It is your privilege to go to Jesus and be cleansed, and to stand before the law without shame and remorse. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom. 8:1. While we should not think of ourselves more highly than we ought, the Word of God does not condemn a proper self-respect. As sons and daughters of God, we should have a conscious dignity of character, in which pride and self-importance have no part. {OHC 143.4}

we should have a conscious dignity of character, in which pride and self-importance have no part.

So it is pride and self-importance that need dealing with...

That does not mean we should not love, care and have a sense of our own dignity in Christ...

God bless,

Mark

I'm not suggesting that we have to be emo and slashing our wrist on a daily basis. We have to stop looking to ourselves and focus on others. I wouldn't consider self respect and self love the same thing. If I take a bullet for one of my enemies, it is showing that I love that individual more than myself. If I am full of self love, I doubt I would do such a thing.

But then if we understand that their is an old man and a new man.

That the new man, in Christ, can have a healthy self love and it is not wrong.

Otherwise we are not obeying the commandment.

God does not want us to love the selfish evil part of our nature, that is clear.

But He never says we are to have no love for ourselves, that is also very clear.

The error being presented here is that it is wrong to have love for self.

The error is being caused because the definition of self is being tied up in one possible meaning.

Please think and pray about it. :-)

"Love thy neighbour as thyself."

It does not say:

"Love thy neighbour but not thyself".

Which IS being advanced here by Robert.

God bless,

Mark

[Twilight]

Developing Self-respect.--If we wish to do good to souls, our success with these souls will be in proportion to their belief in our belief in, and appreciation of, them. Respect shown to the struggling human soul is the sure means through Christ Jesus of the restoration of the self-respect the man has lost. Our advancing ideas of what he may become are a help we cannot ourselves fully appreciate. --Lt 50, 1893. (FE 281.) {1MCP 255.1}