New Dishwasher

[carolaa]

If you're going to all that trouble, why use the machine?

Good question. One that others have asked before you. I guess I like being able to hide the dishes there without feeling a need to wash/rinse/dry/put away all at the same time. I run it every couple days. I think it saves me time, but even if it doesn't, that's how I like to do it.

[carolaa]

And what really annoys me is having to inspect dishes that come out of the dishwasher. So I never have to do that.

[Dr. Shane]

I guess I like being able to hide the dishes there without feeling a need to wash/rinse/dry/put away all at the same time.

This is a very good reason to have a dishwasher. It is especially nice if you don't have a family the size big enough to require washing dishes every day.

[Woody]

Quote:

They are paid for by Social Security recipients paying off $5,000 in penalties for a $1,000 balance.

This is nonsense. I am a Social Security recipient and I pay off my balance each month. I make money off the credit card use. And if someone wants to pay that for me. So be it. We all have freedom to pay whatever fees we want. But the use of the term 'Social Security recipient' shows both ignorance and bias.

[Dr. Shane]

Credit Card Penalties, Fees Bury Debtors

Here is a nice story. A married woman with three kids runs up some credit card debt. Her husband than dumps her and the kids leaving her the debt. She gets nailed with penalties and some Adventist brothers get frequent flier miles and other perks. I hope they can at least send this woman a thank you card.

Quote:

For more than two years, special-education teacher Fatemeh Hosseini worked a second job to keep up with the $2,000 in monthly payments she collectively sent to five banks to try to pay $25,000 in credit card debt.

Even though she had not used the cards to buy anything more, her debt had nearly doubled to $49,574 by the time the Sunnyvale, Calif., resident filed for bankruptcy last June. That is because Hosseini's payments sometimes were tardy, triggering late fees ranging from $25 to $50 and doubling interest rates to nearly 30 percent. When the additional costs pushed her balance over her credit limit, the credit card companies added more penalties.

I was really trying hard to make minimum payments," said Hosseini, whose financial problems began in the late 1990s when her husband left her and their three children. "All of my salary was going to the credit card companies, but there was no change in the balances because of that interest and those penalties."

Elderly Struggle With Debt

Quote:

Recent studies have shown people aged 65 and over are living more dangerously. Bankruptcies have increased faster among seniors than any other group.

In 2001, seniors averaged more than $4,000 in credit card debt. That's almost double the amount reported by seniors in 1992.

And newly retired seniors, those ages 65 to 69, were carrying almost $6,000 on their cards, a rise of 217 percent.

Many of these elderly are talked into a Reverse mortgage on their home to pay off their credit card debt. Reverse mortgages are never a good idea.

Quote:

a typical reverse mortgage may provide a home owner $300 per month with a monthly compound interest rate of 1%. Over 10 years, the home owner receives $36,000 but will owe close to $70,000 – almost twice as much received! Also be aware that these loans have complex contracts and can even include “additional interest” clauses. These clauses can allow the lender to keep all future property gains should the property appreciate before the loan is paid in full.

Isn't it nice to know that those credit card perks are paid for by someone who got sucked into a reverse mortgage?

[Dr. Shane]

I make money off the credit card use.

I make money by working for it and investing money that I worked for. I don't play the lottery. I don't go to Las Vegas. And I don't play with credit cards.

[Gerr]

I must be a different breed of cat. I still feel the pain of spending whether I use cash, check, or credit card!

I look at credit card companies differently than you do. They are vultures only when they have a carcass to feed on. They won't bother a live one. You want to starve the vulture? Pay the whole balance and on time!

Air miles paid for by the prey? Hmmmmmmm. Never heard that before. I thought businesses that accept cc pay a fee to the cc companies. They are simply sharing that profit with me!

Unethical to have credit cards? Now, that's a new one too on me. Since they charge businesses that accept cc a fee, it can't really be free, right? And since the businesses that accept cc don't want to lose money, they would have to pass the cost back to the consumer, right? So the cost of the convenience of being able to use their money is not really free after all. I don't begrudge the fee they charge businesses for the freedom and convenience I enjoy.

Now, the fees they charge when you don't pay the balance in full each month, I consider that usurious. If you don't like that, then pay the whole thing off!

As for an emergency fund, frankly, my credit card is my emergency fund!

[Outta Here]

Why bother owning an automatic dishwasher at all? Aren't those of us who own one putting another person out of a job? Why don't we hire domestic help to come in and clean our dishes for us?

Why is Paulina robbing Petunia out of the job of dishwashing?

[Dr. Shane]

We know that 10% of credit card profits come directly from late fees and penalties. That is a very big chunk. So let's not pretend it is incidental.

The only reason businesses agree to pay credit card companies a fee is because of the statistical facts that consumers using credit cards spend more money. So they make up the fee in volume. Most all cats (credit card users) are the same in that respect.

Credit card companies offer perks for the same reason I place cheese in my mouse trap. Yes, credit card companies are vultures. They are just one step above Mafia loan sharks. No one should fool themselves into thinking the credit card companies want to be helpful. We cannot starve the vultures because there are so many other victims. By participating in this financial practice we are enabling the credit card companies in victimizing others. Let's not try and fool ourselves into believing that we are somehow starving the vultures when we are actually empowering them.

Quote:

the fees they charge when you don't pay the balance in full each month, I consider that usurious. If you don't like that, then pay the whole thing off!

That is very disingenuous. Tell that to the single mother of three kids whose husband just walked out on her. Tell it to the engineer who just lost his job and now must live on unemployment. Tell it to the grandmother who has to sell her house to pay off her credit cards. Let's get real here. This isn't a joke. Credit cards companies are evil. They hurt people. They destroy lives. Let's not come up with insincere comments like people should just pay off their full balance. Credit card companies encourage people not to pay off their full balance. Credit card companies encourage people to keep charging more and more. These are really bad people working for really bad companies.

And just to be clear so people know I don't have an axe to grind. The most credit card debt I ever had was $700. When that company charged me an unreasonable fee I cut up the card and paid it off. No credit card company has ever destroyed my life. But I am not ignorant about what they do to so many people.

Quote:

my credit card is my emergency fund!

We should have three to six months' living expenses in a liquid account as an emergency fund. Using a credit card as an emergency fund is a very, very, very bad idea. Think about it. When do most people need an emergency fund? During an emergency. Such emergencies might include the death of a loved one, getting laid off from work or unexpected medical expenses. Who wants to be running up credit card debt during an emergency? By doing that we have just complicated the emergency. Now not only do we have to deal with the death of a loved one, the job lay off, the medical issue or whatever the emergency is... but we also have to deal with a credit card bill coming at us within 30 days. This is exactly the type of situation that makes the vultures start circling.

[Dr. Shane]

Why bother owning an automatic dishwasher at all? Aren't those of us who own one putting another person out of a job?

The economy is very vibrant. Dishwashers probably put a few maids out of work but I doubt it is much. Someone still needs to load the dishwasher. Dishwashers also create other jobs. Someone has to make them, ship them and sell them. There there will be factories making the detergent and rinse agents that the dishwasher owner will constantly be purchasing. I think it all works out.

[bonnie]

Quote:

That is very disingenuous. Tell that to the single mother of three kids whose husband just walked out on her. Tell it to the engineer who just lost his job and now must live on unemployment. Tell it to the grandmother who has to sell her house to pay off her credit cards. Let's get real here. This isn't a joke. Credit cards companies are evil. They hurt people. They destroy lives. Let's not come up with insincere comments like people should just pay off their full balance. Credit card companies encourage people not to pay off their full balance. Credit card companies encourage people to keep charging more and more. These are really bad people working for really bad companies.

If someone on SS is foolish enough to sell their home to pay credit card debt? As long as it is seen as evil why not just refuse to pay. CC companies cannot force payment,it is that simple. If they have other money then they should be paying the credit cards.

Many end up with a divorce,job loss etc. Unless they relied on credit cards prior to that the credit card companies are not forcing anyone

I couldn't care less if someone was trying to encourage me to run up debt. The little two letter word takes care of that. Try No,it works

[GreatLakesGramma]

As for an emergency fund, frankly, my credit card is my emergency fund!

[Dr. Shane]

If someone on SS is foolish enough to sell their home to pay credit card debt? As long as it is seen as evil why not just refuse to pay. CC companies cannot force payment,it is that simple.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Most people don't see credit card companies as evil. In fact, most people are so foolish they feel flattered when they get a new credit card and think the bank issuing it to them is their friend. With friends like that, none of us need enemies.

If people are that foolish why blame anyone but them?

Quote:

Many people don't realize that CC companies can't force them to pay. In fact, if a person just stops paying the credit card company will sell the account and the balance stops increasing. Most people don't know that either. So yes, there are a lot of foolish people out there and those are the ones the CC companies prey on.

CC companies can only prey on the willing.They are not in business to be your friend. No business is. It is about making money, for the shareholders and owners.

Quote:

CC companies don't force, they can't. They entice. Just like me putting cheese in my mouse trap. I am not forcing any mouse to eat my cheese.

If you are implying that people are as dumb as the mouse they have no business have a charge card or account of any kind.

You don't pay your mortgage in a timely manner,watch the interest . You don't pay your insurance premiums you will be cancelled,don't pay your phone bill you soon won't have a phone. None of these are your friend.

[Outta Here]

The economy is very vibrant. Dishwashers probably put a few maids out of work but I doubt it is much. Someone still needs to load the dishwasher. Dishwashers also create other jobs. Someone has to make them, ship them and sell them. There there will be factories making the detergent and rinse agents that the dishwasher owner will constantly be purchasing. I think it all works out.

The economy is very vibrant. Credit card card companies probably put a few people in such debt as they have to declare bankruptcy, but statistically speaking, the percentage of people in this far over their heads is probably not very high. Credit card companies employ many people--probably more people working for credit card companies than there are people working as dishwashers, dishwasher manufacturers, detergent and rinse aid producers combined. I think it all works out.

In the end, we are all "slaves" to someone unless we are 100% self-sustaining individuals, and none of us is this unless we are gods.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I make money off the credit card use.

I make money by working for it and investing money that I worked for. I don't play the lottery. I don't go to Las Vegas. And I don't play with credit cards.

I take it then that you are opposed to having interest bearing savings account. Do you have a thick mattress?

[Woody]

Why bother owning an automatic dishwasher at all? Aren't those of us who own one putting another person out of a job? Why don't we hire domestic help to come in and clean our dishes for us?

Why is Paulina robbing Petunia out of the job of dishwashing?

Good point there Aubrey. Just don't hire any illegals.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

As for an emergency fund, frankly, my credit card is my emergency fund!

I shuddered when I read that. I would never, ever, under any circumstances use a credit card as an "emergency fund." Because when you can't pay it off, you might end up with a worse emergency than the one you borrowed for.

You are assuming that I have no other resources. I don't subscribe to the current wisdom of having an emergency fund equivalent to your 6 mos salary. Think this over. If you have an emergency fund, where do you keep it? Under your mattress? Earns zero interest. Keep it in a bank? Earns 1-3 percent? When the cc companies charge 15-20% interest, we call it usury. But what do you call it when banks pay you a pittance for using your money? When I'm really in a pickle, then I dip into my retirement account. That's my bottom line emergency fund.

[

[Gerr]

Hey, Shane, see what you've stirred up by just a simple thread on dishwashers?

[Dr. Shane]

If people are that foolish why blame anyone but them?

We do not excuse bad behavior because the victim made foolish choices.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Credit card companies employ many people...

Credit card collections departments have an extremely high turnover. I think I saw where the average worker works less than 90 days before quitting. This is because most people cannot do what these collectors are required to do. It is a very wicked, evil, heartless position that most people simply cannot stomach.

[Dr. Shane]

I take it then that you are opposed to having interest bearing savings account. Do you have a thick mattress?

As long as the money deposited in the account was honestly earned I have no ethical problem with interest bearing savings accounts. My emergency fund is in just such an account. I do not steal money from the elderly, poor or irresponsible and put it into such accounts.

[Dr. Shane]

If you have an emergency fund, where do you keep it? Under your mattress? Earns zero interest. Keep it in a bank? Earns 1-3 percent?

An emergency fund is insurance. It is a means to self-insure for emergencies. It is not an investment. Wealth building comes after the emergency fund is established. The amount need for the emergency fund varies depending on the individual and their circumstances. Three to six months is a good guide. For myself, that equates to about $10,000.

Using investments for an emergency fund is not normally wise because 1) most are not liquid 2) many require penalties be paid for early withdrawal 3) many require taxes to be paid upon withdrawal 4) most of these investments require time to grow and early withdrawal reduces the growth period.

[Dr. Shane]

Hey, Shane, see what you've stirred up by just a simple thread on dishwashers?

Actually this is a healthy discussion. I am able to demonstrate the example of how personal finances should be run and exactly how they work. Many times in my life I wouldn't want others following my financial example but this is a case where my example is exactly how things should be done. If everyone would follow the Dave Ramsey method of personal finances we would see a lot more money being given in offerings and tithe. The work would probably move forward quicker and hasten the coming of our Lord.

[Woody]

I'll pass on that idea.