New Dishwasher

[Dr. Shane]

A lot of people are passing it along. It is really becoming a phenomenon. I am really happy my local church has decided to get involved in it. We had 26 couples/individuals attend our last Financial Peace seminar. The affects are being felt by the credit card industry too. Visa has reported that last year their debit transactions exceeded their credit transaction and MasterCard reported that their debit transactions are also on the increase. More and more people are getting rid of the credit cards. Pass it along. Tell your friends, neighbors, coworkers and loved ones.

[carolaa]

Many people don't realize that CC companies can't force them to pay. In fact, if a person just stops paying the credit card company will sell the account and the balance stops increasing. Most people don't know that either.

I didn't know that. Can't they take you to court just like any other creditor? And wouldn't that pretty much trash a person's credit rating?

[Woody]

Yes.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: Shane

Many people don't realize that CC companies can't force them to pay. In fact, if a person just stops paying the credit card company will sell the account and the balance stops increasing. Most people don't know that either.

I didn't know that. Can't they take you to court just like any other creditor? And wouldn't that pretty much trash a person's credit rating?

I was responding to a "grandmother selling her home to pay credit card bills"

If SS is the only income they have the credit card company can threaten till the cows come home and can do nothing. You cannot attach any part of SS income unless you are the IRS.

They will threaten and try to place a judgment against their home. That is a non-binding lien and can be removed.

As to their credit of course it will trash their rating,but if they haven't been able to pay it is already trashed

[bonnie]

Quote:

Here is a nice story. A married woman with three kids runs up some credit card debt. Her husband than dumps her and the kids leaving her the debt. She gets nailed with penalties and some Adventist brothers get frequent flier miles and other perks. I hope they can at least send this woman a thank you card.

What do you think should have happened? Running up credit card debt is her responsibility. Why shouldn't she pay penalities for non payment? Those that obtain frequent flyer miles has nothing to do with her careless spending habits prior to her husband leaving

Quote:

Recent studies have shown people aged 65 and over are living more dangerously. Bankruptcies have increased faster among seniors than any other group.

And newly retired seniors, those ages 65 to 69, were carrying almost $6,000 on their cards, a rise of 217 percent.

Maybe prior to retirement they should have paid them down and quit using them

Quote:

Many of these elderly are talked into a bt. Reverse mortgages are never a good idea.

Depends on why one is obtained

Quote:

a typical reverse mortgage may provide a home owner $300 per month with a monthly compound interest rate of 1%. Over 10 years, the home owner receives $36,000 but will owe close to $70,000 – almost twice as much received! Also be aware that these loans have complex contracts and can even include “additional interest” clauses. These clauses can allow the lender to keep all future property gains should the property appreciate before the loan is paid in full.

Those are not even realistic figures. Most seniors have their homes paid for and g for a lot more than 36,000.00

Many times if they feel their children are or can provide for themselves they will get a reverse mortgage to do what they would not otherwise be able to do.

A homeowner has access to a lot more than 300.00 a month.

Most take as much cash as the property will grant.

They travel,help their children if they need it,sometimes paying for college for a grandchild.

The loan recipient usually has no plans to pay it back. If you live for 20 more years the amount owed cannot exceed the value of the home.

Isn't it nice to know that those credit card perks are paid for by someone who got sucked into a reverse mortgage?

[Gerr]

I'll pass on that idea.

What do you mean, Red? Pass the idea along to someone else? or you'll pass, like won't bite on the idea?

[Amelia]

*gp

Take a look at your interest earning bank accounts. Most interest has been slashed to the nubbins. Currantly my checking acct is earning.25% and my money market acct earns 1%. So barely more than keeping it in my mattress. LOL

[Amelia]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I'll pass on that idea.

What do you mean, Red? Pass the idea along to someone else? or you'll pass, like won't bite on the idea?

Gerry, if Red had said, "I'll pass that idea along"; I think he would see it as something others would need to know. But the way he phrased it, It appears he doesn't think much of the idea. :)

[Dr. Shane]

I didn't know that. Can't they take you to court just like any other creditor? And wouldn't that pretty much trash a person's credit rating?

They can take a consumer to court but they won't. They will sell the account to a collection agency. The collection agency will harass the consumer and eventually will take them to court if the account is large enough. Both the credit card company and the collection agency will trash the person's credit rating.

[Dr. Shane]

Each of us has to ask what it takes before we are not willing to participate in a business adventure. There are some people that will not shop at Wal-Mart because of how Wal-Mart treats some of their employees.

Of course there is a big difference between Wal-Mart and credit card companies. Wal-Mart does not prey on its customers. Wal-Mart does not try to entice its customers to come into their stores hoping the customers will make some mistakes so Wal-Mart can increase its profit margin at the customer's ruin.

Would we borrow money from a local loan shark that was known for breaking the legs of his customers that didn't pay on time? What if we felt confident we could always pay him on time? What if this loan shark told us that at the end of the year he would pay us back 1% of all the money we borrow from him? Would it matter that he breaks the legs of some of his customers? Would that bother us?

Here is how the trap is laid. Credit card companies target people. Often times they issue cards to young people that have no business having a credit card. They also issue them to elderly people living on Social Security and nothing else. They give them a low credit limit like $300 or $500. These low-income people normally use up their line of credit and then start making minimum payments. That is all part of the plan. This small principle is seen as an investment by the CC company and the minimum payment is like a dividend. Eventually the low-income person makes a mistake and a payment arrives late. This is when the tiger sinks his claws into the prey. Not only is the low-income client hit with a late fee, the late fee causes the client to exceed his or her credit limit so there is an over-limit fee too. Like a fish on a hook struggling to get away the client now starts sending what they can to try to burn down the debt but they are fighting a losing battle. The low-income client has no means to pay the card down under its limit so the fees and penalties just increase. The CC company milks the client for all they can get.

Credit card companies don't break legs but if they could do so legally, they would. They will call several times each day. They will call in the early a.m. They will call neighbors. They have scripts they use designed to cause emotional distress. They will tell a wife to divorce her husband and find a man that can pay his bills. They will threaten to take one to court and garnish their wages. They will threaten to take one's house. They use fear tactics and they also try to provoke one to anger. When they get people angry or scared people start sending them their grocery money, their rent money, their tithe, their car payment, the money for the light bill, etc. Credit card companies know this. They don't care if the consumer gets evicted or if their children go hungry. They are among the lowest and most disgusting people on the planet.

In most cases credit card companies will not behave until a financial adviser gets involved. That may simply be a person's pastor or stewardship director. When a third party, calling themselves a financial adviser, gets on the phone and starts talking to the credit card company, that is when they start acting like professional bankers and not loan sharks ready to break someone's legs.

Now there is a temptation to blame the client. This is done in many ways:

1. The person shouldn't have gotten the card

2. The person shouldn't have maxed out the card

3. The person should have read the fine print

4. The person should have paid the full balance each month

All of these are true but irrelevant. The foolish behavior of the customer does not excuse the abusive behavior of the predator. This makes as much sense as blaming the rape victim for getting raped because of how she dressed.

Credit card companies lay traps for their clients. Some people are smart enough to see the traps and avoid them. However most people are not. 80% of Americans hold credit cards and the average balance is over $7,000. That tells us that most people are trapped into high interest loans and one late payment away from penalties. Even if you consider yourself an individual smart enough to use a credit card, it is irresponsible to encourage others to get them knowing that the vast majority of Americans with credit cards have a running balance they are paying high interest on. I go one step further to say it isn't even ethical to participate in that business racket. If a person has the money to pay off their balance in full each month, there is no reason they cannot have that money in a bank account and be using a debit card.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Credit card companies don't break legs but if they could do so legally, they would. They will call several times each day. They will call in the early a.m. They will call neighbors. They have scripts they use designed to cause emotional distress. They will tell a wife to divorce her husband and find a man that can pay his bills. They will threaten to take one to court and garnish their wages. They will threaten to take one's house. They use fear tactics and they also try to provoke one to anger. When they get people angry or scared people start sending them their grocery money, their rent money, their tithe, their car payment, the money for the light bill, etc. Credit card companies know this. They don't care if the consumer gets evicted or if their children go hungry.

I have also read that they do these things.

[GreatLakesGramma]

*gp

Take a look at your interest earning bank accounts. Most interest has been slashed to the nubbins. Currantly my checking acct is earning.25% and my money market acct earns 1%. So barely more than keeping it in my mattress. LOL

ING Direct pays 1.4% now. When I opened our account there last September, it was 3%. It's still more than our checking account pays. And even if we do only get 2 or 3 dollars per month from each account, it's still more than we would ever get from the mattress. And over the course of a year, it all adds up. Plus, it's fireproof.

[GreatLakesGramma]

I told my son about this thread. He says that if we are going to boycott credit card companies for the reasons Shane has given here, we should also not have money in the bank, because they do the exact same things to customers. One of his close friends just experienced that earlier this year.

[Woody]

TU

But those who can't control themselves with credit cards should not have them. They are only for those who have the discipline to not charge more than they can pay.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Neither should those same people have a checking account debit card.

But those are the very people credit card companies want to have credit cards. They hate us who pay our balances in full every month. They call us deadbeats.

[Dr. Shane]

if we are going to boycott credit card companies for the reasons Shane has given here, we should also not have money in the bank, because they do the exact same things to customers.

No banks are perfect. Jesus First National does not exist. The most ethical thing to do is to bank with a local, community or regional bank - not a national chain. Local banks tend to treat their customers much better because they are part of the community.

Most banks that lend money to buy homes, cars and other such assets do not lay traps for their customers like credit card companies do. The ARMs (adjustable rate mortgages) may be an exception to that. Most banks will work with their customers when they have financial difficulties if the customer goes in and talks to them right away. I can give you an example. I forgot to record a check once and got an overdraft notice. I went in and talked to my bank and they cut my charges in half. Four checks had come in and they only charged me for two. No credit card company is going to be so forgiving. The credit card companies hope and pray their clients make such mistakes.

Hollywood makes lots of movies but I will not go to many of them. Under some logic, I should not go to any. Some would say that because of the objectionable movies Hollywood makes, I should completely boycott them altogether. Banks offer many services and the reality of today forces us to use banks. We can't avoid that and function normally in our society. However, that said, we don't have to use all the services that banks provide. Just as we pick and choose which Hollywood movies we judge to be morally acceptable, we judge which of our bank's services are morally acceptable. Credit cards are over that line for me. I see the predatory behavior with that service and simply cannot support it in any way.

[carolaa]

Isn't it usually banks that offer the credit cards?

[Dr. Shane]

Neither should those same people have a checking account debit card.

[Dr. Shane]

Isn't it usually banks that offer the credit cards?

Some small town banks may offer credit cards but most of the cards I have seen are offered by big banks like Capital One, Citi, Bank of America, Chase, First Premier, etc.

[Dr. Shane]

They are only for those who have the discipline to not charge more than they can pay.

That is such a small minority it must be a protected class of people. I wonder if these people also have the discipline to stop the diarrhea when they get it. That takes a lot of will power.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Originally Posted By: carolaa

Isn't it usually banks that offer the credit cards?

Some small town banks may offer credit cards but most of the cards I have seen are offered by big banks like Capital One, Citi, Bank of America, Chase, First Premier, etc.

They are still banks.

We bank at a small town bank with no branches. We got our credit card from them. It says "[local bank name] Visa" on the front. But they don't provide customer service, and a credit card company named Elan is the actual issuer. I doubt that it would be any different with other small, local banks.

My father in law had a credit card through his credit union. The phone number for customer service was the credit union's number, but the payment address was in another state. I don't know if the credit union was the actual issuer, or if it was through a credit card company.

[Dr. Shane]

I think local banks and credit unions probably provide the best service. If and when they issue credit cards they are probably just doing that through a different company.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Now there is a temptation to blame the client. This is done in many ways:

1. The person shouldn't have gotten the card

2. The person shouldn't have maxed out the card

3. The person should have read the fine print

4. The person should have paid the full balance each month

All of these are true but irrelevant.

Irrelevant? IMHO, that's nonsense. They are every bit relevant! It has everything to do with personal responsibility! Shall we ban the manufacture of guns because some people misuse them? Ban knives because some people use them to carve other people instead of meat?

Quote:

The foolish behavior of the customer does not excuse the abusive behavior of the predator.

I agree 100%. Since CC companies do provide a service of convenience, then instead of banning them, try to correct the wrong that they are doing! And educate irresponsible people to not have them! Why penalize people by depriving them of a convenience because of the abuse some people heap on this service?

Quote:

This makes as much sense as blaming the rape victim for getting raped because of how she dressed.

Are you saying that a woman that dresses in a way that gives the "come on" signal has in no way contributed any responsibility to the crime? Is not a woman that dresses in a way that displays the "goods" laying out a trap like the credit card companies? And some fool can't resist the "cheese"? In the case of CC companies, you put the blame on them, but in this example you blame the guy who can't resist the cheese?

Quote:

Credit card companies lay traps for their clients.

Then work with legislators to remove those traps rather than banning them. They do provide a valuable service of convenience. Go on vacation with a wad of cash especially to a foreign country? Get real, Shane!

[Dr. Shane]

It has everything to do with personal responsibility!

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

An attractive female college student goes to a party dressed in tight clothing, a low-cut blouse with a push-up bra. A letter arrives in the mail from a credit card company. A young college student opens it and reads...

Just for a thought... imagine the young female college students gets raped sexually only to go home afterward and be taken advantage of by a credit card company and thus "raped" financially.

I suppose many self-righteous "Christians" would say she invited both the sexual and financial rape. It was her fault. She should have known better.

Poor thing... if only Dave Ramsey had gotten a hold of her first perhaps both rapes could have been avoided.