The Heart of the 1888 Message

[John317]

There's been a lot of controversy about these codices because most of the modern translations are heavily influenced by them, and they are different in some important respects from the texts upon which the KJV is based. But that doesn't affect the point I'm making about them here.

[Guest]

I see. That was interesting about Waggoner and Jones.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

im trying to get specific...in other words, how do we know which "spirit" we are following? how does the Holy Spirit sanctify us? is there something we have to do to enable that?

i have a thought on how that would work, but im waiting to see how others see it.

1. Accept the merits of Christ.

2. Recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit.

3. Follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

4. We are sanctified as we co-operate with the obedience imparted to us through the promises of God and the action of the Holy Spirit on our minds and hearts.

Mark :-)

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

im trying to get specific...in other words, how do we know which "spirit" we are following? how does the Holy Spirit sanctify us? is there something we have to do to enable that?

i have a thought on how that would work, but im waiting to see how others see it.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." 5 T 744.

Is that simple enough? Every day we are to come to God just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. Then it is written that "love springs up in the heart" (1 S.M.354) because the Holy Spirit is given unto us to work in us both to will and to do His good please. The Holy Spirit sheds the love of God in our hearts. (Rom.5:5) And that love (righteousness of Christ) is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. (Rom.13:10) See T.M.92. This is what the Scripture calls "the obedience of Christ," or "the obedience of faith."

sky

[skyblue888]

1. Accept the merits of Christ.

2. Recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit.

3. Follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

4. We are sanctified as we co-operate with the obedience imparted to us through the promises of God and the action of the Holy Spirit on our minds and hearts.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

1. Accept the merits of Christ.

2. Recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit.

3. Follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

4. We are sanctified as we co-operate with the obedience imparted to us through the promises of God and the action of the Holy Spirit on our minds and hearts.

Mark :-)

_________________________________________________________________

Mark, if I may make one comment. When we accept the merits of Christ we must believe that the Holy Spirit is immediately given as a result of accepting and claiming the merits of Jesus. You did not mean that receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit was another step that we must make after we have claimed the merits of Christ. This gift which cannot be excelled is automatically given to the believer, as it is written, "Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate (receive) the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."5 T 744.

Then the Holy Spirit sheds the love of God in our hearts (Rom.5:5) and it works in us both to will and to do God's good pleasure as it is expressed in the precepts of His holy law. (Rom.13:10) This is how Christ's obedience (righteousness) is imparted to us as every command becomes a promise to be fulfilled by the Holy Spirit.

Right?

sky

This is the faith which works by love, it works the works of God. (Gal.5:6.) The works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Eph.2:10)

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

1. Accept the merits of Christ.

2. Recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit.

3. Follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

4. We are sanctified as we co-operate with the obedience imparted to us through the promises of God and the action of the Holy Spirit on our minds and hearts.

Mark :-)

_________________________________________________________________

Mark, if I may make one comment. When we accept the merits of Christ we must believe that the Holy Spirit is immediately given as a result of accepting and claiming the merits of Jesus. You did not mean that receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit was another step that we must make after we have claimed the merits of Christ. This gift which cannot be excelled is automatically given to the believer, as it is written, "Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate (receive) the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."5 T 744.

Then the Holy Spirit sheds the love of God in our hearts (Rom.5:5) and it works in us both to will and to do God's good pleasure as it is expressed in the precepts of His holy law. (Rom.13:10) This is how Christ's obedience (righteousness) is imparted to us as every command becomes a promise to be fulfilled by the Holy Spirit.

Right?

sky

This is the faith which works by love, it works the works of God. (Gal.5:6.) The works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Eph.2:10)

I think that we need a conscience understanding that one action results in a consequence. :-)

1. Accept merits.

2. Accept Robe of Righteousness.

3. Accept Holy Spirit.

Now these can be viewed as steps by an individual, or one individual process.

But all elements must be there.

I had a thought on this that I will start a new post on that I think you may enjoy.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

I think that we need a conscience understanding that one action results in a consequence. :-)

1. Accept merits.

2. Accept Robe of Righteousness.

3. Accept Holy Spirit.

Now these can be viewed as steps by an individual, or one individual process.

But all elements must be there.

I had a thought on this that I will start a new post on that I think you may enjoy.

Mark :-)

When we accept the merits of Jesus and claim them as our own, we please God, we have His approval and we receive pardon for our sins, and peace, an joy in the Holy Spirit who brings the righteousness of Christ into the life.

These are no steps that must be taken one after another. It all happens at the same time as the Holy Spirit is imparted to us.

sky

But some may need to understand it as a process Sky.

Are not all our minds different?

Should we desire all to be of the same mold of mind?

--------------------------------------------------------

I wish to present some matters to those laboring in New Zealand. There is need of a clearer light in regard to dealing with brethren. Not all minds are constituted alike, and we may thank God that this is the case. Each person is at liberty to freely state his convictions, and there is to be no lording it over the children of God. No man is to take another man's mind and mold it over to meet his mind and his ideas; for the molding might be for worse instead of for better. -66- {18MR 65.2}

--------------------------------------------------------

I think it is often beneficial for a subject to be broken down into its component parts and examined and understood.

Presenting it in such a way is a biblical principle.

Mark :-)

[skyblue888]

When the message of the righteousness of Christ was presented in 1888 it was adapted for all minds and it was stated so clearly and simply that there was no need anymore for any speculation or for the ideas and opinions of men.

"It is not God's will that you should be distrustful and torture your soul with the fear that God will not accept you because you are sinful and unworthy. 'Draw nigh to God and He will draw nigh to you.' Present your case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for you upon Calvary's cross. Satan will accuse of being a great sinner, and you must admit this, but you can say:'I know I am a sinner, and that is the reason I need a Saviour. Jesus came into the world to save sinners." Signs of the Times, July 4, 1892.

Now it is my understanding that this statement can be received, believed, and acted upon by all people no matter what their background may be or where they are at physically, mentally, or spiritually provided they are hungering and thirsting for God's mercy and long for His love. This statement of truth is so simple that a little child can receive it, believe it, and act upon it and be greatly blessed for anyone who does receive, believe, and act upon this statement of truth finds the approval of God. "Through the merits of Christ we may find the approval of God." Our Father Cares, p.122.

But we can expect that it will not be implicitly received, believed, and acted upon by those who wish to speculate or debate over the matter by adding their own ideas and opinions as though it was not sufficient to present our case before God pleading the merits of the precious blood of Christ in order to obtain all the riches of God's grace.

Again, simply stated, we read, "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate (receive) the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." 5 T 744.

Again I ask, can not these plain statements be received, believed, and acted upon by any human being no matter what his background is or may have been if he/she will simply believe implicitly what is clearly and simply stated? Mrs. White said that the message was just as simple as accepting the alphabet but that we didn't understand it! See F.W.64.

For years and years the theologians and the ministers and the teachers in the church have told us about all the steps that we must take and all the conditions that we must fulfilled before we may take hold of Christ's righteousness or before we may be forgiven or receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, but the Lord in 1888 did not do this. He simply said, "You cannot explain this faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into your life." F.W.65.

We cannot explain it. We either lay hold upon the merits to bring His righteousness into the life or we do not. There is no other way. In another place the pen of inspiration states that "Jesus loves to have us come to Him just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent." F.W.38. Then we are to present our case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for us upon Calvary's cross.

As the believing sinner does this day after day, hour by hour, moment by moment, God accepts him, forgives him, and loves him as He loves Jesus and he clothes him with the robe of righteousness woven in the loom of Heaven and then every command becomes a promise, a most positive promise of its own fulfilment for the righteousness of Christ is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. See T.M.92.

And this is our life business, to look to Jesus and to accept His merits which it is our privilege to claim. See T.M.93.

We must daily apply to the merits of Christ by claiming them. We must daily present our helpless case before God pleading the merits of Christ and it is this that gives us the blessed assurance that our sins are forgiven and that the giff of the Holy Spirit, the gift that cannot be excelled, is ours, knowing that the Holy Spirit is working in us both to will and to do God's good pleasure. Eph.2:13.

God bless,

sky

*This message was offered to those who were hungering and thirsting for God's mercy, who desired His counsel, and who longed for His love. See M.B.130.

[pnattmbtc]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

All of these resources are available on line, btw, except for "The Everlasting Covenant" I think. (that is, I'm sure all the others are online, but I don't think "The Everlasting Covenant" is, but it could be without my knowing).

This help?

http://adventaudio.org/2009/07/06/the-everlasting-covenant/

Got it bookmarked. Great! Thanks!

[pnattmbtc]

If one wishes to present the 1888 message, one should really quote from the 1888 messengers. That seems crystal clear to me. It's fine to quote from Ellen White, or Scripture, as well, but let's have some quotes from the messengers! After all, the message came from them!

Here's a favorite of mine:

Quote:

In the first verse of the third chapter of Hebrews we have an exhortation which comprehends all the injunctions given to the Christian. It is this: "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus." To do this as the Bible enjoins, to consider Christ continually and intelligently, just as He is, will transform one into a perfect Christian, for "by beholding we become changed."

Ministers of the gospel have an inspired warrant for keeping the theme, Christ, continually before the people and directing the attention of the people to Him alone. Paul said to the Corinthians, "I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified" (1 Cor. 2:2), and there is no reason to suppose that his preaching to the Corinthians was different in any respect from his preaching elsewhere. Indeed, he tells us that when God revealed His Son in him, it was that he might preach Him among the heathen (Gal. 1:15, 16), and his joy was that to him grace had been given to "preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ." Eph. 3:8.

But the fact that the apostles made Christ the burden of all their preaching is not our sole warrant for magnifying Him. His name is the only name under heaven given among men whereby we can be saved. Acts 4:12. Christ Himself declared that no man can come unto the Father but by Him. John 14:6. To Nicodemus He said, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:14, 15.

This "lifting up" of Jesus, while it has primary reference to His crucifixion, embraces more than the mere historical fact; it means that Christ must be "lifted up" by all who believe in Him, as the crucified Redeemer, whose grace and glory are sufficient to supply the world's greatest need; it means that He should be "lifted up" in all His exceeding loveliness and power as "God with us," that His Divine attractiveness may thus draw all unto Him. See John 12:32. (Christ and His Righteousness)

Here's a similar thought from the SOP:

Quote:

How, then, are we to be saved? "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness," so the Son of man has been lifted up, and everyone who has been deceived and bitten by the serpent may look and live. "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." John 1:29. The light shining from the cross reveals the love of God. His love is drawing us to Himself. If we do not resist this drawing, we shall be led to the foot of the cross in repentance for the sins that have crucified the Saviour. Then the Spirit of God through faith produces a new life in the soul. The thoughts and desires are brought into obedience to the will of Christ. The heart, the mind, are created anew in the image of Him who works in us to subdue all things to Himself. Then the law of God is written in the mind and heart, and we can say with Christ, "I delight to do Thy will, O my God." Ps. 40:8. (DA 175)

I'll mention two themes brought here. One is the importance of beholding Christ. Which reminds me of this:

Quote:

Hanging upon the cross Christ was the gospel. Now we have a message, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sins of the world." Will not our church members keep their eyes fixed on a crucified and risen Saviour, in whom their hopes of eternal life are centered? This is our message, our argument, our doctrine, our warning to the impenitent, our encouragement for the sorrowing, the hope for every believer. If we can awaken an interest in men's minds that will cause them to fix their eyes on Christ, we may step aside, and ask them only to continue to fix their eyes upon the Lamb of God. (6SDABC 1113)

Beautiful!!

Ok, the two points. One is the importance of beholding Christ. The other is that if we do not resist, we will be led to repentance. The goodness of God leads us to repentance. We should re-write this as if it said the goodness of God might lead us to repentance, or can lead us to repentance, but it does lead us to repentance (this is Waggoner). So the Good News is unless we resist this leading to repentance by the goodness of God communicated by the Holy Spirit, God will write the law in our hearts, which means bringing us into complete harmony with His will and principles.

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:teresaq

"Verily I say unto Thee, Today shalt thou be with Me in Paradise."

Quote:jasd

First: Have you taken a look at the instances (in such as Strong’s) wherein Jesus Christ’s utterances of His “Verilies...” are listed? and noticed the comma placements? Yet, to satisfy a manufactured and/or dogmatic position vis-à-vis Writ – it has been handed down – that there exists a one-time exception in Jesus Christ’s signature statement; purportedly found in Luke 23:43.

>>The 4th century codex Vaticanus has a space between letters in only one place in the gospel of Luke. Where do you suppose that single space occurs? Between the Greek word for "today" and the word "with."<<

You may want to refer to your notes, as the space in Luke (Codex Vaticanus) occurs between Luke 22:30 and 22:31, which occurs after a rare punctuation. Luke 23:43 does, however, contain in the Vaticanus – an ‘accidental spot’ or ‘blemish’ after “today”/semeron – however, without the space...

If the scribe had utilized an intended punctuation after “today”/semeron, he would have followed it with a space – as he does in the aforementioned Luke 22:30,31.

>>It clearly indicates that the copier intended the reader to understand that the pause should be placed AFTER "today" and not before it.<<

The issue seems to turn upon biases rather than upon a strict syntactical parsing of text.

“Luke 23:43 is one of 74 examples of a formulaic expression, spoken only by Jesus in the Gospels. This expression is never modified by an adverb of time, unless Luke 23:43 is the lone exception. Further, when all the "I say to you" sayings are taken into account, the number of non-temporally-modified introductory expressions grows to 144.”

>>Also, please notice the thief's plea: "When you come into your kingdom..."<<

"" Some would remove the stop, and place it after "today", and read the words thus, "I say unto thee today"; as if Christ only signified the time when he said this, and not when the thief should be with him in paradise; which, besides it being senseless, and impertinent, and only contrived to serve an hypothesis, is not agreeably to Christ's usual way of speaking, and contrary to all copies and versions. Moreover, in one of Beza's exemplars it is read, "I say unto thee, hoti semeron that today thou shalt be with me", &c. and so the Persic and Ethiopic versions seem to read, which destroys this silly criticism. And because this was a matter of great importance, and an instance of amazing grace, that so vile a sinner, one of the chief of sinners, should immediately enter into the kingdom of God, and enjoy uninterrupted, and everlasting communion with him and that it might not be a matter of doubt with him, or others, Christ, who is the "Amen", the faithful witness, and truth itself, prefaces it after this manner: "verily I say unto thee"; it is truth, it may be depended on. This instance of grace stands on record, not to cherish sloth, indolence, security and presumption, but to encourage faith and hope in sensible sinners, in their last moments, and prevent despair. "" --John Gill [ed.jasd]

“The love of Gd is greater still” – than the expectation of a thief.

>>Question: When does Jesus come into His kingdom? Did Jesus come into His kingdom that same day when He died? Clearly not. Compare Daniel 2: 44; 7: 14.<<

Was Jesus Christ constrained in the manner of His granting salvation to the Thief?

>>Another important point is that it's highly unlikely that the thief himself died that same day. Criminals who were crucified usually lived several days before they were released from their terrible agony by death.<<

Jn 19:31 ...besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Jn 19:32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.

Jn 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

Seems to me that the intention was the immediate death (by asphyxiation) of those upon the crosses – that they might be taken away, as the Sabbath was drawing on.

>>On Sunday morning Jesus said that He Himself hadn't yet ascended to His Father. The Tree of Life is where Paradise is. Compare Rev. 2: 7; 22: 1-3.

The question follows: where was Paradise at the time Jesus Christ promised the Thief Paradise? It is not suggested that the New City Jerusalem was already a done fact and both Tree and Paradise were before the throne of Gd and of the Lamb – with the Tree in the midst of the street and on both sides of the river? millennia ago? ...umm, New City?

Little children, take care that ye be not overtaken of conflations

>>Conclusion: The evidence simply does not support the view that Jesus promised the thief that he would be with Jesus that same day.<<

Oh!? Okay...

“...and only contrived to serve an hypothesis, is not agreeably to Christ's usual way of speaking, and contrary to all copies and versions.” --John Gill

[pnattmbtc]

I think it is often beneficial for a subject to be broken down into its component parts and examined and understood.

Presenting it in such a way is a biblical principle.

I agree! The 10 points mentioned above I think are a good start. This is a nice web site:

http://www.gospel-herald.com/

I've mentioned a couple of points. One is the importance of beholding Christ. EGW wrote that we had preached the law until we were as dry as the hills of Gilboa. We need more of Christ!

A second point is that the Good News is better than we have thought. If we do not resist the Holy Spirit, we will be saved (in fact, there's a statement from the SOP that says we will be made perfect(!) if we do not resist!).

A third point I'll mention is that of the Covenants. This was a wonderful teaching of Waggoner, once which the SOP described as "clear as sunlight" or something similar by Waggoner. http://www.brooklawn.org/Books/GladTidings/GT04RedeemedfromtheCurse.htm is a good place to look. Look for "The Covenants of Promise".

I can provide more on the subject of the Covenants if interested.

[pnattmbtc]

>>The 4th century codex Vaticanus has a space between letters in only one place in the gospel of Luke. Where do you suppose that single space occurs? Between the Greek word for "today" and the word "with."<<

You may want to refer to your notes, as the space in Luke (Codex Vaticanus) occurs between Luke 22:30 and 22:31, which occurs after a rare punctuation. Luke 23:43 does, however, contain in the Vaticanus – an ‘accidental spot’ or ‘blemish’ after “today”/semeron – however, without the space...

What is this post doing here? That is, what does this have to do with the 1888 message?

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

I think it is often beneficial for a subject to be broken down into its component parts and examined and understood.

Presenting it in such a way is a biblical principle.

I agree! The 10 points mentioned above I think are a good start. This is a nice web site:

http://www.gospel-herald.com/

I've mentioned a couple of points. One is the importance of beholding Christ. EGW wrote that we had preached the law until we were as dry as the hills of Gilboa. We need more of Christ!

A second point is that the Good News is better than we have thought. If we do not resist the Holy Spirit, we will be saved (in fact, there's a statement from the SOP that says we will be made perfect(!) if we do not resist!).

A third point I'll mention is that of the Covenants. This was a wonderful teaching of Waggoner, once which the SOP described as "clear as sunlight" or something similar by Waggoner. http://www.brooklawn.org/Books/GladTidings/GT04RedeemedfromtheCurse.htm is a good place to look. Look for "The Covenants of Promise".

I can provide more on the subject of the Covenants if interested.

Thanks for the links.

[pnattmbtc]

Sure. John317 posted a nice on "The Everlasting Covenant" as well. The following site has many 1888 materials:

http://www.crcbermuda.com/bible/righteousness-by-faith/christ-and-his-righteousness

Choose "Bible" from the menu, then "Righteousness By Faith."

[teresaq]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:pkrause

Mary saw Jesus right after he rose, and told her not to touch him yet, because he still had to go to the father.

Quote:jasd

Yet, we know from Luke 23:43 that three days earlier, Jesus Christ saw to it that the Thief was ensconced in Paradise, and interim, according to St Peter, He, in the spirit, preached…

>>"Verily I say unto Thee, Today shalt thou be with Me in Paradise."<<

First: Have you taken a look at the instances (in such as Strong’s) wherein Jesus Christ’s utterances of His “Verilies...” are listed? and noticed the comma placements? Yet, to satisfy a manufactured and/or dogmatic position vis-à-vis Writ – it has been handed down – that there exists a one-time exception in Jesus Christ’s signature statement; purportedly found in Luke 23:43. One wonders at The Word, The One who surely understood language, redundantly stating the obvious; that is, advising the Thief that He, Jesus Christ, was speaking to him “Today”. How miscued must The Word have been upon that elementary point of linguistics... [/hyperbole]

To satisfy the irregular dogma re the comma - Jesus Christ would more properly have said such as - "Today, you are assured of Paradise."

But then, who are we to presume upon Jesus Christ?

Having stated the above, that is not to say that Gd never

utilized the repeated phrase...

>>Did the thief go to be with Jesus in Paradise that day?<<

Mais oui! but of course! “For He spoke, and it was done”.

>>-Assuredly not; for Jesus Himself did not go there.<<

According to the explicit wording of the passage in Luke 23:43 – He, indeed, did go there – taking the Thief. If not, we must assume that Jesus Christ was in such severe discomfort that He misspoke.

But then again, we presume...!

>>The tree of life, before the throne of God, "is in the midst of the Paradise of God" (Rev. xxii. 1; 2; ii. 7),<<

Rev 2:7 ... To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life,...

Second: It may behoove us to avoid conflating extremities. For instance – Revelation 22 speaks to us of the New Jerusalem, the city – within which Paradise is depicted... Upon its foundations are written the names of the twelve Apostles. Question: When was/is the New Jerusalem created that the Apostles are portrayed as foundational to the City? If the answer is advanced that it was so circa the time of the Lord’s crucifixion – we have doctrinal problems...

Does Revelation 2 or 22, or any other text, inform us that Paradise, together with the Tree of Life, was always before Gd’s throne? Does any text in Holy Writ inform us that the Tree of Life has always grown from the midst of a street and straddled a river?

Let’s not forget that our NT was written in vernacular Greek – wherein Paradise already had its well-defined meaning.

>>Yet the third day after the crucifixion, after Jesus had risen from the dead, He said to Mary: "Touch Me not; for I am not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and your Fattier; and to My God, and your God." John xx. 17. Later in that same day He allowed the disciples to touch Him, showing that in the meantime He had ascended to heaven, and received from the Father the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted, and had returned.<<

The implication in the above seems to be that Gd dwelt in Paradise. I cannot find that either implicitly or explicitly in Writ.

so as to no longer hijack this topic since it deals with several issues i started a topic here:http://www.clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/277957.html#Post277957

[jasd]

>>What is this post doing here? That is, what does this have to do with the 1888 message?<<

Threatened? c'mon, back-up until you find the reason...

If we can walk and chew gum at the same time - this post goes to the issue of faith and love - on the parts of the Thief and Jesus Christ.

Seeing as you've, apparently, not followed the thread - I raised the point that St Paul informs us that agape love supercedes even faith - mebbe even the sort of faith bruited by Jones and Waggoner? I further,

suggested that Buddhism's very foundation lies with the compassion one might define as agape love... the compassion springing from bowels of mercy, as it were. What's that got to do

with faith? :(

[Guest]

[jasd]

Doesn't Standish state that both Jones and Waggoner apostatized?

"The General Conference Confronts Apostasy" -- Russell R. Standish

Disabuse me. If I read Standish and others correctly... we might wanna get back tah Holy Writ as our primary exegetical tool, yes?

If'n y'alls got no Bibles, write me that I might see to it that you are availed of one...

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

1. Accept the merits of Christ.

2. Recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit.

3. Follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

4. We are sanctified as we co-operate with the obedience imparted to us through the promises of God and the action of the Holy Spirit on our minds and hearts.

but still, how would we know in whose image we are being "sanctified"?

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The glory of God is his character,

and it is manifested to us in Christ.

Therefore it is by beholding Christ,

by contemplating his character,

by learning his lessons,

by obeying his words,

that we become changed into his likeness.

As we are enlightened by his Spirit, we see no virtue or merit in ourselves. We realize there is naught in us but deformity. But the glory of the Redeemer, manifested in his atoning sacrifice, in his justifying righteousness, in his fullness of grace, whereby we not only obtain pardon but receive sanctification, fills the whole soul with love and adoration,

and in contemplating the goodness, mercy, and love of God,

we become transformed in character.

Jesus said, "The glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one." On him who receives Christ, the glory of the Lord has risen, the Sun of Righteousness has shined, and, rising from his low and worldly state, the believer reflects the light of Christ's glory. As he continually looks to Jesus and contemplates his beauty, he is more and more transformed into the child of light. {SSW, July 1, 1894 par. 5}

[Guest]

The 1888 message of Righteousness by Faith came from them. Ellen White endorsed it and called it new light. She said they delivered that message more clearly than she could.

What kinda Bibles ya got? I've been using a KJV and a NKJV.

[jasd]

Carry on....

I see you all simply want to indulge yourselves - I'm looking for 'meat' that is closer to the bone, as it were - brokejaw meat

[Guest]

I'm not indulging at the moment, but I thought John317 answered your question last night.

[Guest]