Is the Adventist Church Really Pro-life?

[Guest]

I bet they could tell you where they got the quote.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The quote is taken from someone's blog. And it looks like it's taken out of context, because he refers to a tribe in Africa.

[teresaq]

since the catholic church has been against abortions pretty much since its inception, yet there have been unearthed, too many to count, bodies of newborns under some of the nunneries torn down, for me, the point is rather stupid.

at the least it is ridiculous to force someone to carry a baby to term because it is a sin to have an abortion, and then have that person kill the baby, because they are, after all, a nun and shouldn't be having sex....

well thats what happens when we start giving into error....

Quote:

Darkness is to cover the earth, and gross darkness the people. And as nearly all around us are being enveloped in the thick darkness of error and delusion, it becomes us to shake off stupidity and live near to God, where we can draw divine rays of light and glory from the countenance of Jesus. As darkness thickens and error increases, we should obtain a more thorough knowledge of the truth and be prepared to maintain our position from the Scriptures. {EW 104.2}

Stupidity, like lethargy, seemed to hang upon the minds of most of those who profess to believe that we are having the last message. {EW 119.1}

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

since the catholic church has been against abortions pretty much since its inception, yet there have been unearthed, too many to count, bodies of newborns under some of the nunneries torn down, for me, the point is rather stupid.

At the turn of the century (ca. 1900) my grandfather who was an interior decorator, was called to a nunnery in Illinois to do some remodeling in their library. He took some of his workers with him. One of the workers placed his hand on the mantel of the fireplace and the whole wall slid back to reveal a dark area filled with the bodies of dead infants. That's not fiction. My grandfather took his workers and left and never went back.

[teresaq]

oops, we better change "bodies" to "bones".

we dont want a repeat of the "shane" squad.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

there were some actual bodies, but also bones...

no...don't want a repeat of the last time

[olger]

I will have nunn of it.

g

[Guest]

Nunn whatsoever!!

[olger]

`zactly !

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I will have nunn of it.

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Nunn whatsoever!!

Stop making fun of me.

[teresaq]

makes me want to cry.

is forcing a woman to bring children into the world so much more important than the infants that were brought into the world and then mercilessly killed?

[Dr. Shane]

There have been a lot of tales of nuns having abortions. I heard some kind of catch 22 logic that justified abortions for nuns. Of course, before abortions, I am sure they practiced infanticide as many cultures did. The reason we don't practice infanticide today is because it has been replaced with abortion.

No one forces women to have children. That is a straw-man argument against banning abortion. Women can use birth control to prevent pregnancy and then there would be no pregnancy to deal with. Of course, birth control is only 99% effective. So one couple in one hundred get pregnant each year while using birth control. If unwanted births were reduced by 99% the 1% unwanted that were born would be far outnumbered by families wanting to adopt them.

Again, I don't believe banning abortion works. It is counter-productive. However I do believe that public policy should be used to discourage abortion and encourage the wide-spread use of birth control.

[Guest]

Maybe the nunns should oughta try abstinance. It really works.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

You just broke down your own straw man argument.

Of course, birth control is only 99% effective.

[Dr. Shane]

That doesn't break down the straw-man argument because if a woman really doesn't want to have children, she can abstain from sexual relations. Nations that have ban abortion like Mexico allow it in cases of rape. No forced sex, no forced child bearing. When sex is forced, abortion is permissible.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

That doesn't break down the straw-man argument because if a woman really doesn't want to have children, she can abstain from sexual relations.

You didn't state that in your straw man post.

[teresaq]

There have been a lot of tales of nuns having abortions. I heard some kind of catch 22 logic that justified abortions for nuns. Of course, before abortions, I am sure they practiced infanticide as many cultures did. The reason we don't practice infanticide today is because it has been replaced with abortion.

[Dr. Shane]

birth control does have side effects, just like all drugs do.

I don't want to offend anyone by getting too graphic. Discussing various forms of birth control could do that. Unless a person is allergic to latex, I don't think there are any side effects from condoms. Those that are allergic can use non-latex condoms although those are more expensive. My wife and I used this form of birth control for many years and we never had children until we stopped using them.

I know many Catholics are against both abortion and birth control. I have never met anyone, other than a Catholic, that was against birth control. The Adventist church certainly is not against birth control.

[Outta Here]

*Just a tag on to Shane's post...I do know of two Lutheran families who are against birth control, and one Latter Day Saint couple who are against birth control.

[Dr. Shane]

I heard Muslims are against birth control too but I never discussed that with those I have known.

[teresaq]

Quote:

since the catholic church has been against abortions pretty much since its inception, yet there have been unearthed, too many to count, bodies of newborns under some of the nunneries torn down, for me, the point is rather stupid.

at the least it is ridiculous to force someone to carry a baby to term because it is a sin to have an abortion, and then have that person kill the baby, because they are, after all, a nun and shouldn't be having sex....

Quote:

Maybe the nunns should oughta try abstinance. It really works.

in prayer that the Lord will circumcise our hard, cold, calloused hearts for our flippant answers to the circumstances of others....http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/nun.htm

Quote:

But when the woman goes in as just a child - she's just a child - and she goes in there with her heart and mind and soul just as clean as any child could be. I say that because sometimes we hear a lot of things that are really not true.

Now, after we become the spouse of Jesus Christ - I want you to listen carefully to this, and then you can follow me into the rest of the testimony - we are now looked upon as married women. We are looked upon as married women. We are the spouse or the Bride of Jesus Christ.

Quote:

And so the day comes and we, all of us now - and as we go on in, I want you to listen carefully, after taking the White Veil - things are beautiful. I'm sixteen and a half years of age. Everyone's good to me. And I'm living in the convent and I haven't seen anything yet, because no little girl - we're not subject to a Roman Catholic Priest until we're twenty-one years of age. And as we give you this next vow, then you'll understand - we don't know about this. This is kept from the little sisters until we've taken our Black Veil and then it's too late.

I don't carry the keys those double doors, and there's no way for me to come out. The priests will tell all over the whole United States and other countries that sisters, or Nuns, rather, can walk out of convents when they want to. I spent twenty-two years there, I did everything there was to do to get out.

Quote:

And so it's a serious thing. And I surely covet your prayers for little Nuns behind Cloistered Convent doors. They'll never hear this Gospel. They'll never know the Christ that you folk know tonight. They'll never pray to Him as you people pray to Him. They'll never feel His blessings as you people feel them. So put them on your hearts and pray for them. They surely need much prayer.

Alright, now as I walk into that room and all of this is transpiring. Now, bless you heart, I don't know what's going to be in the next room. After this has transpired, and I've taken the vows that I will always remain a virgin, I will never legally marry in this world because I'm the spouse of Christ. And then after this, and the Mother Superior leads me out into another room, or rather she opens the door, and I'm to be sent into that room.

THE PRIEST IS THE HOLY GHOST

And when I walk out in that room I see something I have never seen before. I see a Roman Catholic Priest dressed in a holy habit. And he walks over to me and locks his arm in my arm which he had never done in the first part of my convent life. I never had a priest to insult me in any way. I never had one of them to be even unkind to me in the first part of my convent experience. But here he is now. And of course I didn't understand what it was all about. And I didn't know what in the world the man expected of me. And you know, I pulled from him because I felt highly insulted. And I pulled from him and I said, "Shame on you." And it made him very angry for a minute. And the Mother Superior must have heard my voice, because she came out immediately, and she said, "Oh," and they called me by my Church name. She said, "After you've been in the convent a little while you won't feel this way. The rest of us felt the same way you do."

And you know the priest's body is sanctified. And therefore it is not a sin for us to give the priests our bodies. In other words, they teach every little Nun this: As the Holy Ghost placed a germ in Mary's womb, and Jesus Christ was born, so the Priest is the Holy Ghost, and therefore it isn't a sin for us to bare his children. And let me tell you, that's what they come to the convent for. No other purpose in all of this world do priests come into the convent but to rob those precious little girls of their virtue. And I'll assure you, we'll be telling you a little later in the testimony just what they really do after they come in under those particular deals.

But may I say, now every bridge has been burned out from under me. There's no way back. I can't get out of the convent, even though I pled. Oh, how I pled with that priest, "Send for my father. I want to go home. I don't want to go any farther." Only to laugh in my face. And, let me tell you, that's when you stand alone. And you don't know who to turn to. And you're a victim of circumstances. And you live in the convent because there is no other way to get out of the convent. And, I'll assure you, I stayed in the convent until God made a way for me to come out. So now after all of this, my mail will stop. I'll never receive another bit of mail from my family. Never another letter. I belong to the Pope. I belong to Rome.

And then after all of this, the Mother Superior, after taking these partiulcar vows and the priest has invited me to go to the Bridal Chamber..

it is so easy to be flippant and judge things we are completely ignorant of, but have no excuse for being ignorant of...

[doug yowell]

Maybe the nunns should oughta try abstinance. It really works.

Yeah Richard, but if all nuns had been abstinent there would have been no one to lead the children of Israel into the Promised Land after Moses death!!Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church operate a convent somewhere?

[phkrause]

Yeah Richard, but if all nuns had been abstinent there would have been no one to lead the children of Israel into the Promised Land after Moses death!!Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church operate a convent somewhere?

Not sure what you are trying to say Doug? Maybe I'm dense. I think I have an idea but wouldn't want to comment and than find out I was really off base.

pk

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

Yeah Richard, but if all nuns had been abstinent there would have been no one to lead the children of Israel into the Promised Land after Moses death!!Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church operate a convent somewhere?

Not sure what you are trying to say Doug? Maybe I'm dense. I think I have an idea but wouldn't want to comment and than find out I was really off base.

pk

Richard,Where are you? Help me out here.!!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Numbers 13:16 These are the names of the men Moses sent to explore the land. (Moses gave Hoshea son of Nun the name Joshua.)

Yes, the SDA Church has convents all over. They are called "Girls' Dormitories"....