Is the Adventist Church Really Pro-life?

[teresaq]

Life is 20% what happens to us and 80% our reaction to it. Most of the time (not all the time) when I get upset or get my feelings hurt, it is because of how I am reacting to others. Most of the time the problem is me. Which is good news because that means the solution is me too. Which mean I can fix the problem. If others are the problem, I can't do anything about that.

thats nice to know, but irrelevant to what is being discussed at the moment, especially since you did not include whatever it was you think you were addressing.

[Dr. Shane]

your stance seems to alternate between pro-life and pro-choice. But I could be wrong.

Let me clear it up. I believe abortion when used as birth control, to choose the sex of the child or for convenience is sinful. However I believe abortion should be legal for the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. I believe there should be a mandated 24 hour waiting period and pre-abortion counseling provided by an organization with no financial interest in an abortion provider.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Shane

I think that is an unfair generalization - and I am not pro-life. I am pro-choice.

Not an unfair generalization. And I didn't say *what* you were. In fact' date=' your stance seems to alternate between pro-life and pro-choice. But I could be wrong. [/quote']

Ihave to agree with you rudywoofs, that's what I also hear, could be wrong though.

pk

[Dr. Shane]

thats nice to know, but irrelevant to what is being discussed at the moment, especially since you did not include whatever it was you may have been addressing.

It is not irrelevant to the concept of an exchange of ideas. One person comes into a forum and feels attacked while another person comes into the same forum and sees an exchange of idea. The forum is the same. The difference are the reactions on the part of the two different people. One person is easily offended and feels attacked while the other person appreciates a difference of opinion and opposing logic. The forum is exactly the same. All the words are exactly the same. Yet the perspective of the different members is different.

To me that is empowering. That means when I come to here and read something that upsets me, I can go to the mirror and calm down because when I get upset, I am the problem which mean I am also the solution. I don't have to blame other people for making me mad.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

That's pretty much how I see it. Except that I won't condemn anyone who has an abortion. I see it as between her and God. I think it's the "sin" issue that I have a problem with. I don't know what is in a woman's heart or mind...only God knows that.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

Pro-lifers... kill physicians who perform abortions and then chortle about it.

I have to agree with you rudywoofs, that's what I also hear, could be wrong though.

pk

I have a lot of friends that are pro-life. None of them have ever killed any physicians. In fact, some of them are physicians. Please tell me, how many have you guys met that have killed physicians? Maybe I am just sheltered down here. Maybe there are pro-lifers all over the country killing physicians. Please, set me straight. Tell me about all the pro-lifers you know that kill physicians.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

your stance seems to alternate between pro-life and pro-choice. But I could be wrong.

Let me clear it up. I believe abortion when used as birth control, to choose the sex of the child or for convenience is sinful. However I believe abortion should be legal for the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. I believe there should be a mandated 24 hour waiting period and pre-abortion counseling provided by an organization with no financial interest in an abortion provider.

or with a self-proclaimed "pro-lifer" agenda?

[Dr. Shane]

No, I would have no problem with a pro-life organization doing the counseling. No problem at all. I see abortion like tobacco. It is something we need to allow to be legal but we need to use public policy to discourage. The US government allows tobacco to be legal BUT the same US government spends thousands of dollars discouraging people from using it. The same should be our policy with abortion.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

Pro-lifers don't generally want to admit to any wrongdoing. They kill physicians who perform abortions and then chortle about it. They post crude comments about deaths of professionals who have done abortions, and then get upset when those irresponsible comments are removed from the forum..

I'm sorry you don't see more to the issue than an "exchange of ideas"...

Originally Posted By: Shane

I think that is an unfair generalization

why did you make rw look like she said something she didnt?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Shane

Let me clear it up. I believe abortion when used as birth control' date=' to choose the sex of the child or for convenience is sinful. However I believe abortion should be legal for the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. I believe there should be a mandated 24 hour waiting period and pre-abortion counseling provided by an organization with no financial interest in an abortion provider.

or with a self-proclaimed "pro-lifer" agenda? [/quote']

Originally Posted By: Shane

No, I would have no problem with a pro-life organization doing the counseling. No problem at all. I see abortion like tobacco. It is something we need to allow to be legal but we need to use public policy to discourage. The US government allows tobacco to be legal BUT the same US government spends thousands of dollars discouraging people from using it. The same should be our policy with abortion.

given your various posts across the board i am not surprised, rather, i knew that was exactly what you wanted.

it is also clear why you have no problem with the manipulative, bullying posts by self-proclaimed "pro-lifers".

i correct myself. you dont see the manipulative, bullying posts as such, because.....

[Dr. Shane]

Please do not think I have no problem with rude and inconsiderate people. I simply view them as rude and inconsiderate so when they act rude and inconsiderate I don't let it get to me. And when it does get to me, I pray for them until I feel differently. I pray God gives them the things I want. Sometimes that means cheesecake.

My experience with Crisis Pregnancy Centers has not shown me that they are mean and bullying. They are some of the most caring and compassionate people I have ever met.

[Dr. Shane]

please tell me why rw or any one should feel "safe" here, or feel that this is just an exchange of ideas!!

Well, no pro-lifer has killed me since I have been here.

...but I am not a physician either.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

please tell me why rw or any one should feel "safe" here, or feel that this is just an exchange of ideas!!

Well, no pro-lifer has killed me since I have been here.

...but I am not a physician either.

[SivartM]

If one is not pro-life... what are they?

[olger]

Pro death ?

Pro selfishness ?

[teresaq]

Pro death ?

Pro selfishness ?

[Rex]

What kind of person would be hurt by that?

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

I have to agree with you rudywoofs' date=' that's what I also hear, could be wrong though.

pk [/quote']

I have a lot of friends that are pro-life. None of them have ever killed any physicians. In fact, some of them are physicians. Please tell me, how many have you guys met that have killed physicians? Maybe I am just sheltered down here. Maybe there are pro-lifers all over the country killing physicians. Please, set me straight. Tell me about all the pro-lifers you know that kill physicians.

I think rudywoofs was just making a general statement. My point would be thoughtout the last 50 or so years how many people claiming to be pro-life have killed doctors that have done abortions????? Than lets see how many people that are for allowing people to have the choice that God created us with that have killer people that are pro-life???? I believe that there is a very large difference. I also believe that one side has zero the other side has in my life time at least 10 if not more!!!!!!

pk

[olger]

What kind of person would be hurt by that?

yeah..

oG

[Rex]

Originally Posted By: Rex

What kind of person would be hurt by that?

yeah..

oG

I guess there are people who are so super sensitive, that they are offended by the truth, and should probably refrain from entering into a debate of any kind.

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: olger

yeah..

oG

I guess there are people who are so super sensitive' date=' that they are offended by the truth, and should probably refrain from entering into a debate of any kind.[/quote'] And I bet that there are also people who say rude things and excuse themselves by saying that they are "just telling the truth" and "people should not be so sensitive".

Shocking, I know, but... it's the truth.

[Rex]

People should not say rude things. What are you suggesting, that it is rude to tell the truth in such a pc society?

[teresaq]

Pro death ?

Pro selfishness ?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Rex

I guess there are people who are so super sensitive' date=' that they are offended by the truth, and should probably refrain from entering into a debate of any kind.[/quote'] And I bet that there are also people who say rude things and excuse themselves by saying that they are "just telling the truth" and "people should not be so sensitive".

Shocking, I know, but... it's the truth.

Originally Posted By: Rex

What are you suggesting, that it is rude to tell the truth in such a pc society?

how did you get that from what he said?

interesting...

[SivartM]

People should not say rude things. What are you suggesting, that it is rude to tell the truth in such a pc society?

I have no problems with telling the truth. I have in mind something called "tact" and something called "empathy". Because you never know who you could be hurting when you say things like "you are supersensitive and should not be debating" or "you should refrain from stating your opinion". Jesus was not "politically correct" (in the worst sense of the word), but He wasn't rude either.