Is the Adventist Church Really Pro-life?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

That was my question.

I want to know how God's treatment and description of the "in-the-womb" Jesus let's us treat other in-the-womb babies with contempt. How does it let us off the hook of caring for them? How does God's instructions to Samson's parents let us off the hook for other pregnancies? How about His statement to Rebecca that there were two nations in her womb? What does that tell us about God caring about the unborn? What about when God said to the Israelites: Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine. What does that tell us? After the firstborn it's open season on 'em?

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.

As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.

Listen , O isles, unto me; and hearken , ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

------------

I just don't find anywhere in the Bible where God has no concern for what is in the womb of His followers. I think His followers should share His concern, don't you? How can we extrapolate from God's care.... to abortion?

The Bible is silent on the subject of abortion. You should be too.

[karl]

Originally Posted By: karl

I just don't find anywhere in the Bible where God has no concern for what is in the womb of His followers. I think His followers should share His concern, don't you? How can we extrapolate from God's care.... to abortion?

The Bible is silent on the subject of abortion. You should be too.

Why don't you just say, "SHUT UP!"

I think I will. This has become a waste of time.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

[Dr. Shane]

No, the controversy around abortion is whether or not a woman has the prerogative to control what happens with her body without the interference from anyone else.

You WISH to make it a life/death issue. I don't see as such.

This is just covering one's eyes to the facts. The issue here is "Why do some people get upset about abortion?"

When we answer that question, we will know why it is controversial.

It is an issue of life and death. A growing fetus is alive. It is not a mineral. It is a biological life form.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

It is a biological life form.

so is a tree, so are bears, so are penguins, so is a rat

[Dr. Shane]

Now. You can argue till the cows come home, but you won't change my mind about this.

I don't think anyone is trying to change anyone else's mind. We are having a discussion which is an exchange of ideas. We are all just participating in the arena of ideas. No one needs to change their mind. This isn't a competitive game. No one wins. No one loses. We just talk with each other. We have a conversation.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

It is a biological life form.

so is a tree, so are bears, so are penguins, so is a rat

Exactly! Bear embryos are bears. Rat embryos are rats. Human embryos are humans.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

That is NOT what has happened in this thread. It hasn't been an "exchange of ideas" ....it's been more of a "why do you believe in killing babies?" thread. The pro-life legions are adamant that they are right and have the right to force their views on women. I say we don't have the right to force our view on abortion on any woman, and I am roasted. I say the decision is between God and a woman, and I am roasted. This thread isn't about conversation. It's about militant pro-lifers' agendas.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

so is a tree' date=' so are bears, so are penguins, so is a rat [/quote']

Exactly! Bear embryos are bears. Rat embryos are rats. Human embryos are humans.

no. they are embryos. And you missed the tree.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

Now. You can argue till the cows come home, but you won't change my mind about this.

I don't think anyone is trying to change anyone else's mind.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: karl

Yes, we know that God prepped Mary for what was to come, but how does that let the rest of the pregnancies off the hook?

what does that have to do with the rest of the pregnancies?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

The Bible is silent on the subject of abortion. You should be too. [/quote']

Why don't you just say, "SHUT UP!"

I think I will. This has become a waste of time.

that is one way to take it.

another way is to realize that since the bible is silent on the subject of abortion but quite vocal on what we should do about the born, the fatherless, the widow, the homeless, the hungry, the suffering, then perhaps we should be more concerned with that.

seems to me theres enough to keep us quite busy, and still not meet all the need.

[Dr. Shane]

That is NOT what has happened in this thread. It hasn't been an "exchange of ideas" ....it's been more of a "why do you believe in killing babies?" thread.

I don't see it that way at all. It is an exchange of ideas. Some people's ideas are in the form of very strong opinions. They have the right to those opinions and to express those ideas. Others have the right to disagree and express their ideas. What we have is a forum with competing ideas. I don't read any more into it than that.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

No, the controversy around abortion is whether or not a woman has the prerogative to control what happens with her body without the interference from anyone else.

You WISH to make it a life/death issue. I don't see as such.

This is just covering one's eyes to the facts.

why do you say this?

what is your intent?

[Dr. Shane]

no. they are embryos.

An embryo is simply a stage of life.

Let's talk about mammals here. That keeps things simple.

Human life starts out as an embryo. It develops into an infant. Then it becomes a toddler. Then a child, teenager, young adult, middle aged and finally a senior citizen. From embryo to senior citizen, it is human. The only difference is the stage of life. The same is true with bears and rats. A bear embryo is as much a bear as a bear cub is. It is not an onion, it is not a clump of clay, it is not a gold nugget, it is not an acorn or a rat. It is a bear.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

That is NOT what has happened in this thread. It hasn't been an "exchange of ideas" ....it's been more of a "why do you believe in killing babies?" thread.

I don't see it that way at all.

and?

are you saying that you how you see it should dictate how others see it?

children are told that if a touch feels wrong they should go with their gut and not listen to anyone else tell them different.

if "words" dont feel right i will go with my gut and disregard your negation of such.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Pro-lifers don't generally want to admit to any wrongdoing. They kill physicians who perform abortions and then chortle about it. They post crude comments about deaths of professionals who have done abortions, and then get upset when those irresponsible comments are removed from the forum..

I'm sorry you don't see more to the issue than an "exchange of ideas"...

[Dr. Shane]

why do you say this?

I don't know how much clearer I can state it without repeating myself.

If we want to know why abortion is controversial we need only ask those that are upset about it and what they tell us will be the answer. What they tell us is that they consider abortion to be murder so that is our answer.

[Dr. Shane]

Pro-lifers don't generally want to admit to any wrongdoing. They kill physicians who perform abortions and then chortle about it.

I think that is an unfair generalization - and I am not pro-life. I am pro-choice.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Shane

This is just covering one's eyes to the facts.

why do you say this?

what is your intent? [/quote']

Originally Posted By: Shane

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

why do you say this?

I don't know how much clearer I can state it without repeating myself.

If we want to know why abortion is controversial ....

cute.

if you dont wish to answer the questions you could skip the post as if it didnt happen, instead of making it look like you were answering something that wasnt addressed.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

why do you say this?

I don't know how much clearer I can state it without repeating myself.

If we want to know why abortion is controversial we need only ask those that are upset about it and what they tell us will be the answer. What they tell us is that they consider abortion to be murder so that is our answer.

So...that about wraps this up, doesn't it?

[Dr. Shane]

Life is 20% what happens to us and 80% our reaction to it. Most of the time (not all the time) when I get upset or get my feelings hurt, it is because of how I am reacting to others. Most of the time the problem is me. Which is good news because that means the solution is me too. Which mean I can fix the problem. If others are the problem, I can't do anything about that.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

Pro-lifers don't generally want to admit to any wrongdoing. They kill physicians who perform abortions and then chortle about it.

I think that is an unfair generalization - and I am not pro-life. I am pro-choice.

Not an unfair generalization. And I didn't say *what* you were. In fact, your stance seems to alternate between pro-life and pro-choice. But I could be wrong.

[phkrause]

Most people willing to adopt want a newborn. Foster kids have often times been abused, neglected and sexually violated. They normally come with a lot of emotional baggage that most people simply don't have the time and ability to deal with.

I wonder how many here are planning to or have adopted anyone over the age of 10? There are so many waiting for someone to love them, but there are no takers as rudywoofs has mentioned. But of course this shouldn't be a reason for aborting. Not sure why this thread wasn't named differently, but I guess that's life.

But a very good point rudywoofs.

pk

[teresaq]

Pro-lifers don't generally want to admit to any wrongdoing. They kill physicians who perform abortions and then chortle about it. They post crude comments about deaths of professionals who have done abortions, and then get upset when those irresponsible comments are removed from the forum..

I'm sorry you don't see more to the issue than an "exchange of ideas"...