"In Christ" what does that mean?

[Twilight]

Thanks Mark, I appreciate you sticking up for me, I hope I can repay the favor. You are familiar with my views so honesty certainly is in play here!

Some poster who has no name used this quote here:

Quote:

"A member of the church should not be excluded from membership because of his inability to recognize clearly the doctrine of spiritual gifts and its application to the second advent movement " The Testimony of Jesus p.141

" There has been a spirit prevailing of contention, of faultfinding, of making little items a test of Christian fellowship" 2MR 120

Its funny, the first quote and the reference are unfamiliar to me. I inserted the entire quote 4 times into my query search tool within my EGW database and came up with nothing every time.

I don't have a book listed by this name either. I typed in The testimony of Jesus in the bibliography and got no hits.

It seems this quote is not a part of the published writings. So its either unpublished, or bogus.

At any rate, Dr. Pipim, is speaking of an all out rejection of the prophet. The above quote seems to say the person is trying but doesn't see it yet. The second quote which looks legit is out of contextactually, they both are. A rejection of the prophet is a little item? Not quite.

Well Mark we certainly see what the faithful are up against in these final days before Jesus comes.The worse attacks on the Lord's prophet come from within by those professing to accept and believe. At this point I doubt the first quote is legitimate, though I cannot be positive; at any rate, both are out of context.

We have to remember, the greatest truths stir up the greatest animosity.

Whilst we are to recognise our own blindness spiritually, we are to take comfort when the enemy stirs up animosity aganst the truth.

We must also guard against the "baiting" of individuals that is prevalent from one or two posters.

But we must also be careful not to be drawn into it ourselves.

Often when someone cries "foul", they are pointing out their own sins.

So when someone points the finger, study their own posts and see if the behaviour they are pointing out, is actually there own.

9 times out of 10 it is...

The spirit of the world.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

The author of the quote cited is F. M. Wilcox, former editor of the Review and Herald, that is, this one:

Quote:

A member of the church should not be excluded from membership because of his inability to recognize clearly the doctrine of spiritual gifts and its application to the second advent movement. (The Testimony of Jesus p.141)

pnattmbtc

Thanks for that clarification. I thought it was Bogus.

I didn't know Wilcox was a prophet!

Quick definitions (creed)

noun: any system of principles or beliefs

noun: the written body of teachings of a religious body.

Wow! I didn't know the SDA 28 beliefs were Catholic!

Ha ha ha ha ha Ho ho ho ho! Verrrry Funny!

We now have a creed, thats what the 28 beliefs are. Those who don't like this creed, well, I guess they can go elsewhere if so desired.

What is instructive to me is the that the pioneers did not want to be organized prior to 1863, but Ellen White had light from God that well....said we needed a creed,(dare I say it!) we needed to be organized. And thats exactly what happened. In 1863, the 7th Day Adventist prophetic movement formed a "creed" and became organized. So, just a few years ago, our creed was 27 beliefs, now its 28 I think.

We need a creed, otherwise when people are looking for a true church and they say, "Well, whats your creed?" Why we then show them our creedand they see all 28 of the creed are correct and they join the church. praise God for a creed!

I have noticed a tendency sometimes for a particular poster to quote Non SOP quotes in the midst of others.

You have to be careful of this careless (at best) representation and use of quotes.

Mark

[Woody]

Quote:

So when someone points the finger, study their own posts and see if the behaviour they are pointing out, is actually there own.

"I know you are not saved."

"I know you are lost. Because you do not know the Lord."

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter

Thanks Mark, I appreciate you sticking up for me, I hope I can repay the favor. You are familiar with my views so honesty certainly is in play here!

Some poster who has no name used this quote here:

Quote:

"A member of the church should not be excluded from membership because of his inability to recognize clearly the doctrine of spiritual gifts and its application to the second advent movement " The Testimony of Jesus p.141

" There has been a spirit prevailing of contention, of faultfinding, of making little items a test of Christian fellowship" 2MR 120

Its funny, the first quote and the reference are unfamiliar to me. I inserted the entire quote 4 times into my query search tool within my EGW database and came up with nothing every time.

I don't have a book listed by this name either. I typed in The testimony of Jesus in the bibliography and got no hits.

It seems this quote is not a part of the published writings. So its either unpublished, or bogus.

At any rate, Dr. Pipim, is speaking of an all out rejection of the prophet. The above quote seems to say the person is trying but doesn't see it yet. The second quote which looks legit is out of contextactually, they both are. A rejection of the prophet is a little item? Not quite.

Well Mark we certainly see what the faithful are up against in these final days before Jesus comes.The worse attacks on the Lord's prophet come from within by those professing to accept and believe. At this point I doubt the first quote is legitimate, though I cannot be positive; at any rate, both are out of context.

We have to remember, the greatest truths stir up the greatest animosity.

Whilst we are to recognise our own blindness spiritually, we are to take comfort when the enemy stirs up animosity aganst the truth.

We must also guard against the "baiting" of individuals that is prevalent from one or two posters.

But we must also be careful not to be drawn into it ourselves.

Often when someone cries "foul", they are pointing out their own sins.

So when someone points the finger, study their own posts and see if the behaviour they are pointing out, is actually there own.

9 times out of 10 it is...

The spirit of the world.

Mark :-)

Mark, how true. The spirit if antichrist will always attack the truth in some manner, often times with a religious guise.

Many times I was drawn into their attacks in the past which God used to teach me to stay away from that, but I may not have fully learned the lesson yet but its coming!

Many times in response to satanic attacks I would just post this:

Judge not, that ye be not judged." Do not think yourself better than other men, and set yourself up as their judge. Since you cannot discern motive, you are incapable of judging another. In criticizing him, you are passing sentence upon yourself; for you show that you are a participant with Satan, the accuser of the brethren. The Lord says, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves." This is our work. "If we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged." 2 Corinthians 13:5; 1 Corinthians 11:31. {DA 314.1}

Which may have made the antichrist madder, but hopefully is instructive to others.

We also know that this spirit of the world does not play fair. It will use lies and deceptions where we do not, and cannot, at the peril of our souls.

Not only that, the converted heart will hunger and thirst after righteousness and come to hate and abhor all sin.

This is what it means to be saved from our sins, as we cannot be saved in them and continue therein.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer in it?

Rom 6:3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that just as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

AMEN!

Holiday Greetings and Best Wishes for all! God Bless, Steve

The Conflict of the Ages Readathon starts Jan. 1, on Facebook. We start with PP and read one chapter a day for 10 months and all 5 books are read, and one can log in to the site and blog. It is led by Sandra Entermann, the Australian SDA recording artist. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=185208356614&ref=share

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http://www.spiritandtruth.org/download/eSword/index.htm ) free Download for the KJV2000 in E-sword)

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

We have to remember, the greatest truths stir up the greatest animosity.

Whilst we are to recognise our own blindness spiritually, we are to take comfort when the enemy stirs up animosity aganst the truth.

We must also guard against the "baiting" of individuals that is prevalent from one or two posters.

But we must also be careful not to be drawn into it ourselves.

Often when someone cries "foul", they are pointing out their own sins.

So when someone points the finger, study their own posts and see if the behaviour they are pointing out, is actually there own.

9 times out of 10 it is...

The spirit of the world.

Mark :-) [/quote']

Mark, how true. The spirit if antichrist will always attack the truth in some manner, often times with a religious guise.

Many times I was drawn into their attacks in the past which God used to teach me to stay away from that, but I may not have fully learned the lesson yet but its coming!

Many times in response to satanic attacks I would just post this:

Judge not, that ye be not judged." Do not think yourself better than other men, and set yourself up as their judge. Since you cannot discern motive, you are incapable of judging another. In criticizing him, you are passing sentence upon yourself; for you show that you are a participant with Satan, the accuser of the brethren. The Lord says, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves." This is our work. "If we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged." 2 Corinthians 13:5; 1 Corinthians 11:31. {DA 314.1}

Which may have made the antichrist madder, but hopefully is instructive to others.

We also know that this spirit of the world does not play fair. It will use lies and deceptions where we do not, and cannot, at the peril of our souls.

Not only that, the converted heart will hunger and thirst after righteousness and come to hate and abhor all sin.

This is what it means to be saved from our sins, as we cannot be saved in them and continue therein.

Amen, How true.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

The author of the quote cited is F. M. Wilcox, former editor of the Review and Herald, that is, this one:

Quote:

A member of the church should not be excluded from membership because of his inability to recognize clearly the doctrine of spiritual gifts and its application to the second advent movement. (The Testimony of Jesus p.141)

but Ellen White had light from God that well....said we needed a creed,... In 1863, the 7th Day Adventist prophetic movement formed a "creed" ....

where on earth do you get the history, and misinformation, on our church?!?

could you please provide the specific quotes where "god" told ellen white to form a "creed" in our church?

[teresaq]

All, high or low, if they are unconverted, are on one common platform. Men may turn from one doctrine to another. This is being done, and will be done. Papists may change from Catholicism to Protestantism; yet they may know nothing of the meaning of the words, "A new heart also will I give you." Accepting new theories, and uniting with a church, do not bring new life to anyone, even though the church with which he unites may be established on the true foundation. Connection with a church does not take the place of conversion. To subscribe the name to a church creed is not of the least value to anyone if the heart is not truly changed. . . . {Ev 290.2}

[Woody]

Quote:

where on earth do you get the history, and misinformation, on our church?!?

could you please provide the specific quotes where "god" told ellen white to form a "creed" in our church?

In the quote below ... Ellen White clearly established the creed for our church:

Quote:

"The prayer of Christ to His Father, contained in the seventeenth chapter of John, is to be our church creed." LHU 296

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

That's the prayer Jesus prayed for all believers, right?

[John317]

Let the seeker for truth who accepts the Bible as the inspired word of God, lay aside every previous idea, and take that word in its simplicity. He should renounce every sinful practice, and enter the Holy of Holies with heart softened and subdued, ready to listen to what God says. {RH, August 13, 1959 par. 1}

Do not carry your creed to the Bible, and read the Scriptures in the light of that creed. If you find that your opinions are opposed to a plain "Thus saith the Lord," or to any command or prohibition He has given, give heed to the Word of God rather than to the sayings of men. Let every controversy or dispute be settled by "It is written." {RH, August 13, 1959 par. 2}

The mistake made by the Roman Catholic is that he reads the Bible in the light of the priests and rulers of the church, the early fathers, or other Catholic expositors. Laying aside all creeds or articles prescribed by any church, we are to read the Bible as the word of God to us. The Light of the world will enable us to distinguish between truth and antagonistic errors. {RH, August 13, 1959 par. 3}

Let the heart be softened and subdued by the spirit of prayer before the Bible is read. Truth will triumph when the spirit of truth cooperates with the humble Bible student. How precious the thought that the Author of truth still lives and reigns. Ask Him to impress your minds with the truth. Your searching of the Scriptures will then be profitable. Christ is the great Teacher of His followers, and He will not leave you to walk in darkness. {RH, August 13, 1959 par. 4}

The Bible is its own interpreter. With beautiful simplicity, one portion connects itself with the truth of another portion, until the whole Bible is blended in one harmonious whole. Light flashes forth from one text to illuminate some portion of the Word that has seemed more obscure. {RH, August 13, 1959 par. 5}

Those who with humility of heart search the Scriptures, with a sincere desire to know and obey the truth will not be left to walk in darkness. Jesus says, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The whole Bible is a revelation of Christ. But you may read the Scriptures from morning till night, and unless you humbly submit your will to the will of God, you cannot receive a saving knowledge of the gospel. As you see the truth plainly stated, lay aside every false position, however dear it may be to the selfish heart. Some will take a text, wrest it from its true bearing, and force it into service to sustain some preconceived opinion. By linking together isolated passages of Scripture, they may deceive others. But what appears to be Bible proof for their position is no proof whatever; for the scriptures are not used in their true setting. In this way error is often magnified, and truth diminished. Those who thus wrest the scriptures to sustain error, greatly dishonor God, and in the day of judgment, they will be held responsible for the disobedience of those who through their sophistries have been led to disregard the divine law.{RH, August 13, 1959 par. 6}

[Guest]

Amen

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter

but Ellen White had light from God that well....said we needed a creed,... In 1863, the 7th Day Adventist prophetic movement formed a "creed" .... [/quote']where on earth do you get the history, and misinformation, on our church?!?

could you please provide the specific quotes where "god" told ellen white to form a "creed" in our church?

If you know anything about church history, (SDA) you should know that the pioneers resisted organization prior to 1863. God gave light to Ellen White that we needed to be organized. Common sense tells us that organization includes a set of beliefs, that's what a creed is. I'm not saying that God said "Ellen, write a creed." In those exact words. This is not rocket science!

I think some of you are stumbling over the word "creed." Just like people may stumble over "dogma."

Quick definitions (dogma)

noun: a doctrine or code of beliefs accepted as authoritative ("He believed all the Marxist dogma")

noun: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof.

We don't use dogma for out belief system because it is more commonly used for catholicism with the second meaning attached.

We could say our 28 beliefs are "dogma" and infer the meaning of the first definition. But we don't.We don't really use creed either because of negative associations. But my use of the word is linguistically correct, however, Adventists normally do not use the word "creed."

If you really insist that I show you that God impressed EGW to organize the church, I will find the info. Let me know if you do. Thank You, Steve

[Steve Billiter]

All, high or low, if they are unconverted, are on one common platform. Men may turn from one doctrine to another. This is being done, and will be done. Papists may change from Catholicism to Protestantism; yet they may know nothing of the meaning of the words, "A new heart also will I give you." Accepting new theories, and uniting with a church, do not bring new life to anyone, even though the church with which he unites may be established on the true foundation. Connection with a church does not take the place of conversion. To subscribe the name to a church creed is not of the least value to anyone if the heart is not truly changed. . . . {Ev 290.2}

Now I see that Redwood provided the quote for creed, for which I appreciate. Its just a set of beliefs.

[pnattmbtc]

but Ellen White had light from God that well....said we needed a creed,... In 1863, the 7th Day Adventist prophetic movement formed a "creed"

[teresaq]

Quote:

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

The author of the quote cited is F. M. Wilcox, former editor of the Review and Herald, that is, this one:

Quote:

A member of the church should not be excluded from membership because of his inability to recognize clearly the doctrine of spiritual gifts and its application to the second advent movement. (The Testimony of Jesus p.141)

but Ellen White had light from God that well....said we needed a creed,... In 1863, the 7th Day Adventist prophetic movement formed a "creed" ....

Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

where on earth do you get the history, and misinformation, on our church?!?

could you please provide the specific quotes where "god" told ellen white to form a "creed" in our church?

Common sense tells us that organization includes a set of beliefs, that's what a creed is.

could you please supply the specific statements from ellen white where she was instructed by "god" that the seventh-day adventist church needed a "creed".

[Steve Billiter]

The question is, "What is truth?" It is not how many years have I believed that makes it the truth. You must bring your creed to the Bible and let the light of the Bible define your creed and show where it comes short and where the difficulty is. The Bible is to be your standard, the living oracles of Jehovah are to be your guide. You are to dig for the truth as for hidden treasures. You are to find where the treasure is, and then you are to plow every inch of that field to get the jewels. You are to work the mines of truth for new gems, for new diamonds, and you will find them. {FW 77.1}

"On this first Sunday in Advent, the Time of the Coming, we proclaim: "Jesus is Lord!" That's the earliest of Christian creeds."

It was in his correspondence with Christians at Philippi, the Macedonian city named for the father of Alexander the Great, that the Apostle Paul expounds on this earliest Christian creed: "Jesus is Lord!"

Please do not accuse me of being a sundaykeeper, this is only an example!

[teresaq]

The question is, "What is truth?" It is not how many years have I believed that makes it the truth. You must bring your creed to the Bible and let the light of the Bible define your creed and show where it comes short and where the difficulty is. The Bible is to be your standard, the living oracles of Jehovah are to be your guide. You are to dig for the truth as for hidden treasures. You are to find where the treasure is, and then you are to plow every inch of that field to get the jewels. You are to work the mines of truth for new gems, for new diamonds, and you will find them. {FW 77.1}

You know how it is with the papal power. The people have no right to interpret the Scriptures for themselves. They must have someone else interpret the Scriptures for them. Have you no mind? Have you no reason? Has not God given judgment to the common people just as well as He has to the priests and rulers? When Christ, the Lord of life and glory, came to our world, if they had known Him, they never would have crucified Him. God had told them to search the Scriptures: "In them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of Me" (John 5:39). {FW 77.2}

God help us to be Bible students. Until you can see the reason for it yourself and a "thus saith the Lord" in the Scriptures, don't trust any living man to interpret the Bible for you. And when you can see this, you know it for yourself, and know it to be the truth of God. You will say, "I have read it, I have seen it, and my own heart takes hold upon it, and it is the truth God has spoken to me from His Word." Now this is what we are to be--individual Christians. We need to have an individual, personal experience. We need to be converted, as did the Jews.... {FW 77.3}

[Steve Billiter]

That's the prayer Jesus prayed for all believers, right?

Joh 17:1 These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son, that your Son also may glorify you:

Joh 17:2 As you have given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as you have given him.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Joh 17:4 I have glorified you on the earth: I have finished the work which you gave me to do.

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was.

Joh 17:6 I have manifested your name unto the men that you gave me out of the world: yours they were, and you gave them to me; and they have kept your word.

Joh 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever you have given me are of you.

Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which you gave me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from you, and they have believed that you did send me.

Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them that you have given me; for they are yours.

Joh 17:10 And all mine are yours and yours are mine; and I am glorified in them.

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to you. Holy Father, keep through your own name those whom you have given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in your name: those that you gave me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Joh 17:13 And now come I to you; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.

Joh 17:14 I have given them your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Joh 17:15 I pray not that you should take them out of the world, but that you should keep them from the evil.

Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through your truth: your word is truth.

Joh 17:18 As you have sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also who shall believe on me through their word;

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Joh 17:22 And the glory which you gave me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Joh 17:23 I in them, and you in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that you have sent me, and have loved them, as you have loved me.

Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom you have given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which you have given me: for you loved me before the foundation of the world.

Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, the world has not known you: but I have known you, and these have known that you have sent me.

Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them your name, and will declare it: that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Redwood wrote:

Quote:

In the quote below ... Ellen White clearly established the creed for our church:

Quote:

"The prayer of Christ to His Father, contained in the seventeenth chapter of John, is to be our church creed." LHU 296

_________________________

[teresaq]

Quote:

where on earth do you get the history, and misinformation, on our church?!?

could you please provide the specific quotes where "god" told ellen white to form a "creed" in our church?

In the quote below ... Ellen White clearly established the creed for our church:

Quote:

"The prayer of Christ to His Father, contained in the seventeenth chapter of John, is to be our church creed." LHU 296

wow!! straight from Jesus to us. what a gem!!

[teresaq]

John, you do of course understand the 28 is our creed?

[Tom Wetmore]

...In the quote below ... Ellen White clearly established the creed for our church:

Quote:

"The prayer of Christ to His Father, contained in the seventeenth chapter of John, is to be our church creed." LHU 296

Here is the full context of that quote which she expanded upon in a Signs of the Times article:

The Power of the Word in the Life.

The Bible is to be our great lesson book. From Genesis to Revelation it is full of instruction on practical goodness. We need to search it diligently, that we may understand every word of God. Thus we eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ. {ST, May 2, 1900 par. 1}

In the Word of God we are given explicit instruction in regard to the unity that should exist among Christ's followers. From the pillar of cloud Christ gave Moses direction as to how man should regard God and his fellowman. The children of Israel were enjoined to treat with love and compassion their brethren and the stranger sojourning with them. It is essential that we understand and practise the principles laid down by the great Teacher regarding unity. {ST, May 2, 1900 par. 2}

Christ's prayer to His Father, contained in the seventeenth chapter of John, is to be our church creed. It shows us plainly that disunion and variance are dishonoring to God. "This is life eternal," Christ prayed, "that they might know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent. I have glorified Thee on the earth; I have finished the work which Thou gavest Me to do. And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own self with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was. I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world; Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me; and they have kept Thy Word. . . . I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me. . . . I have given them Thy Word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil. . . . Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; that they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in Us; that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me." {ST, May 2, 1900 par. 3}

When Christ abides in the hearts of believers, unity will be seen. Love will flow from them to others in a strong current. The privileges and opportunities given them will be appreciated. Their unity will testify in a most powerful manner that they are children of God. It will have an irresistible influence upon the world, showing that man in his humanity may be a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. {ST, May 2, 1900 par. 4}

Let us seek earnestly to obey the conditions God has laid down, by striving for the unity that should exist among believers. Christ's true followers will act upon the principles He has laid down. "They are not of the world," He said, "even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through Thy truth; Thy Word is truth. . . . The glory which Thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are one; I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent Me, and hast loved them, as Thou hast loved Me." This is the most wonderful statement that ever came from the lips of Christ. Why do we not show that we understand and appreciate these words? {ST, May 2, 1900 par. 5}

We are plainly told that when we receive Christ, a change takes place in us which shows the world that God did indeed send His Son to this earth. But how many who claim to be Christians are Christians in word, deed, and thought? How many reveal to the world the glory which Christ declares He gave to His people? Who among those that have been given such great light reveal this light in clear, distinct rays by their love and unity? {ST, May 2, 1900 par. 6}

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. . . . And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, . . . . full of grace and truth." Christ came to our world to show us how to live true, upright lives; and all who are Christians will carry out His principles. They will represent Him by their compassionate tenderness for one another. "As many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name." "And of His fulness have all we received, and grace for grace." As we receive the precious gift of grace, we are to impart it to others. Thus we show that we are in partnership with Christ. God and man work in harmony. Man receives the grace of Christ, and from him it flows forth in kind words and deeds to his fellow-men. {ST, May 2, 1900 par. 7}

When we are one with Christ, we have power to show to the world that God loves human beings as He loves His only-begotten Son. Why do we not eat the bread and drink the water of life, that the Christ-life may be revealed in our lives, and that the world may see what wonderful privileges are ours? Shall Christ always be disappointed in His people? Will they always refuse to comply with the conditions He has laid down? Shall we not change this feature of our experience? Shall we not believe that God will work with power if we do not hinder Him by disregarding His requirements? What could not God do for us if we would but place ourselves in right relation to Him and to one another? {ST, May 2, 1900 par. 8}

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin," John declares; "for his seed remaineth in him, and he can not sin, because he is born of God. . . . This is the message that ye have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. . . . We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death." {ST, May 2, 1900 par. 9}

Shall we not be doers of God's Word? Shall we not work in partnership with Christ? "By one offering He hath perfected forever them that are sanctified. . . . This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put My laws into their hearts and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." God desires us to have all that He has provided for us at such an immense cost. The reason why the great and grand truths which have been presented to us do not accomplish more is that we do not live these truths; therefore they are powerless to influence us. We need a deeper appreciation of truth.

Mrs. E. G. White.

{ST, May 2, 1900 par. 10}

[Emphasis added.]

So that is to be our creed!

[teresaq]

well, i dont know about anyone else, but reading that i can not point fingers in any direction but my own.....

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes indeed! To love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves..." For it is by our love for one another that we show our love for God. As I have repeated here a number of times before, by the quote you see below in my signature I am convicted every time I consider it. It has haunted me since the day I first read it. To think that I love God only as much as the person I love the least! Lord have mercy!

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter

John, you do of course understand the 28 is our creed?

this was our first "creed"

Quote:

LEADING DOCTRINES TAUGHT BY THE REVIEW

The Bible, and the Bible alone, the rule of faith and duty. {1854 JWe, LD1854 1.1}

The Law of God, as taught in the Old and New Testaments, unchangeable. {1854 JWe, LD1854 1.2}

The Personal Advent of Christ and the Resurrection of the Just, before the Millennium. {1854 JWe, LD1854 1.3}

The Earth restored to its Eden perfection and glory, the final Inheritance of the Saints. {1854 JWe, LD1854 1.4}

Immortality alone through Christ, to be given to the Saints at the Resurrection. {1854 JWe, LD1854 1.5}

in 1872 the fundamental principles was formulated for this reason:

Quote:

In presenting to the public this synopsis of our faith, we wish to have it distinctly understood that we have no articles of faith, creed, or discipline, aside from the Bible. We do not put forth this as having any authority with our people, nor is it designed to secure uniformity among them, as a system of faith, but is a brief statement of what is, and has been, with great unanimity, held by them. We often find it necessary to meet inquiries on this subject, and sometimes to correct false statements circulated against us, and to remove erroneous impressions which have obtained with those who have not had an opportunity to become acquainted with our faith and practice. Our only object is to meet this necessity. {1872, FP1872 3.1}

As Seventh-day Adventists we desire simply that our position shall be understood; and we are the more solicitous for this because there are many who call themselves Adventists who hold views with which we can have no sympathy, some of which, we think, are subversive of the plainest and most important principles set forth in the word of God. {1872, FP1872 3.2} ...

but you are one of the rare honest ones that actually calls the current set-up a creed.

others are not so honest and will interrogate others as to whether they hold to the, now modified, "fundamental beliefs" of our pioneers.

unfortunately this is what is taught to the converts to our church in lieu of thorough bible studies and church history....

says:

Quote:

God has given me light regarding our periodicals. What is it?--He has said that the dead are to speak. How?--Their works shall follow them. We are to repeat the words of the pioneers in our work, who knew what it cost to search for the truth as for hidden treasure, and who labored to lay the foundation of our work. They moved forward step by step under the influence of the Spirit of God. One by one these pioneers are passing away. The word given me is, Let that which these men have written in the past be reproduced.... {CW 28.1}

... Men spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. {CW 28.2}

Let the truths that are the foundation of our faith be kept before the people. ...We are now to understand what the pillars of our faith are,--the truths that have made us as a people what we are, leading us on step by step.-- Review and Herald, May 25, 1905. {CW 29.1}

so, my brother, as i said, you may follow what you will,

i will follow the counsel given by the messenger of the Lord, FOR ME, not be looking around to see who isnt living up to my expectations.

If you are speaking of me you are doing the very thing you say you don't do, judging others.