Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted December 31, 2009 Members Posted December 31, 2009 It's getting to be embarrassing to be on the forum. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Twilight Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Twilight No...that's not what it means....What you are presenting is "Christ in you".... It says abide in "me" in the first part. That signifies a "remaining". Not a "touch base once". We remain in the promises of God by faith. It is only as we do this, that the blood covers us. Whereas you are presenting that the blood covers us once, no matter what happens afterwards, which is not "remaining" and is the very darkest of all errors. (If I have understood you correctly of course). Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Twilight Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo I don't need to look around...my humanity is "in Christ" and in the heavenly places....In Him I am complete....One day I'll receive all that is true "in Him", but for now I stand positively righteous before God's holy law "in Him" Then you will be experiencing the victory over sin that Grace supplies Robert. Do you have that? Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Woody Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 It's getting to be embarrassing to be on the forum. The question IS ... Who is going to be a part of the solution to this? Who is willing to step forward? We need a "few good men" or women ... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Robert Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: Robert I don't need to look around...my humanity is "in Christ" and in the heavenly places....In Him I am complete....One day I'll receive all that is true "in Him", but for now I stand positively righteous before God's holy law "in Him" Then you will be experiencing the victory over sin [indwelling sin] that Grace supplies Robert. Yes, experiencing.... Quote
Twilight Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: Twilight Then you will be experiencing the victory over sin [indwelling sin'] that Grace supplies Robert. Yes, experiencing.... But your manner of treating people on here, would indicate a lack of gentleness Robert? How can I reconcile the two? Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 1, 2010 Moderators Posted January 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) At-one-ment in God's universe is still future. Sure, we have accepted that "in Christ" we are complete....This we have by faith, not reality yet....By that I mean that we haven't received all that we have "in Christ".....When we do then we have it in reality....We will be sinless.... So then, this finished/completed work that happened 2k yrs ago that you keep hammering with is not as complete and finished after all? Quote
karl Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 No matter how you slice or dice it, Robert, I hope you are coming to the conclusion that the requirements of God have not changed from the garden of Eden to now. The belief that we are not required to keep the law of God is a fatal delusion. This should not even be under discussion. The only question is, "How do we do this impossible (with men) thing?" "When men are not willing to see the truth and receive it, because it involves a cross, they are opening the door to Satan's temptations. He will lead them, as he led Eve in Eden, to believe a lie. The truth through which they might have been sanctified is set aside for some pleasing delusion presented by the destroyer of souls. It is often the case that the most precious truth appears to lie close by the side of fatal errors. The rest that Christ promised to all who should learn of him lies close beside indifference and carnal quietude, and multitudes overlook the fact that this rest is found only in wearing Christ's yoke and bearing his burden, in possessing his meekness and lowliness. The great truth of our entire dependence upon Christ for salvation lies close to the error of presumption. Freedom in Christ is by thousands mistaken for lawlessness; and because Christ came to release us from the condemnation of the law, men declare that the law itself is done away, and that those who keep it are fallen from grace. And thus, as truth and error appear so near akin, minds that are not guided by the Holy Spirit will be led to accept the error, and in so doing place themselves under the power of Satan's deceptions. In thus leading men to receive error for truth, Satan is working to secure the homage of the Protestant world." The Home Missionary, November 1, 1893 "When the grace of Christ enters the heart, the mind at once becomes interested to know what saith the Scriptures. Those who are truly converted to Christ keep constant guard lest they shall accept error in place of truth. Those who think that it matters not what they believe in doctrine, so long as they believe in Jesus Christ, are on dangerous ground. There are some who think that they will be just as acceptable to God by obeying some other law than the law of God, by meeting some other conditions than those which He has specified in the gospel, as if they obeyed His commandments and complied with His requirements; but they are under a fatal delusion, and unless they renounce this heresy and come into harmony with His requirements, they cannot become members of the royal family...." The Review and Herald, August 27, 1901 Quote
Woody Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: Robert Yes, experiencing.... But your manner of treating people on here, would indicate a lack of gentleness Robert? How can I reconcile the two? I don't think the topic at hand is to look at each others behaviours. And as our man Stan the man has indicated ... if you go off topic you will be banned. I dare say Mark that if we stacked you up against Rob ... you would not fare well. I find you very offensive in your posting. So, I really suggest we don't get on this line of questioning and pointing of fingers. Thank you Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Robert Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 Doesn't seem like much of a conversation. If you are saved by what Christ does in you instead of what He did 2000 years ago, then you can forget heaven because you are measuring up. Let's say you reach 40% of what the law requires in your Christian living...do you now think Christ will add His 60% so that you get 100%? If so, like I said, that is the message the Judizers preached. We are saved 100% by Christ's finished and perfect work....The evidence is a changed life...it prove one's faith...not his/her goodness.... Quote
Robert Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 It says abide in "me" in the first part. Christ took us into Himself at the incarnation. He already is the 2nd Adam. We are already "in Him" even before you accepted the in Christ truth.... When He says "remain in me" He is speaking of faith. We accepted the gopsel (you in Christ), now when we accept that Christ lives in us through the Spirit by faith. Quote
Robert Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: Robert Yes, experiencing.... But your manner of treating people on here, would indicate a lack of gentleness Robert? How can I reconcile the two? Because some here are Judaizers and they must be opposed just as Christ opposed the self-righteous and Paul the Judaizers....If not it will flourish.... Paul: Gal 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. ....7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth [obedience to the gospel]? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 "A little yeast [a little legalism] works through the whole batch of dough." 10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one [i.e., Judazier] who is throwing you into confusion will have to pay the penalty, whoever that may be. 11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision [see Acts chapter 15 - circumcision was one of their requirements + obeying the law], why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves! Paul called the Judaizers "agitators"...he said that he wished that they would go the whole distance and instead of removing the foreskin that they would chop the whole thing off! What would be your reply to Paul? Would you tell him this "indicate a lack of gentleness"? Quote
teresaq Posted January 1, 2010 Posted January 1, 2010 Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) At-one-ment in God's universe is still future. Sure, we have accepted that "in Christ" we are complete....This we have by faith, not reality yet....By that I mean that we haven't received all that we have "in Christ".....When we do then we have it in reality....We will be sinless.... my thought was more related to the at-one-ment we can have with God, not the "future" part. at one, in sync.... Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Moderators Gerr Posted January 1, 2010 Moderators Posted January 1, 2010 You are confusing believers who keep His commandments BECAUSE they love Him with the Judaizers who were advocating circumcision or law-keeping IN ORDER to be saved! Quote
Norman Byers, N.D. Posted January 10, 2010 Author Posted January 10, 2010 Quote: "If your present faith is yielded so easily, it is because you never sent down the taproot in clinging faith. It has cost you too little. If it does not sustain you in trial and comfort you in affliction, it is because your faith has not been made strong by effort and pure by sacrifice. Those who are willing to suffer for Christ will experience more joy in suffering than in the fact that Christ has suffered for them, thus showing that He loved them. Those who win heaven will put forth their noblest efforts, and will labor with all long-suffering, that they may reap the fruit of toil." EG White Notebook Leaflets from the Elmshaven Library Vol. 1 (1945), page 74, paragraph 6 This was a great statement which reveals what happens when we accept in false in Christ teaching. There is nothing to ground us by accepting that the whole world is saved in Christ. What cost to us is there in that? What earnest cry do we need to make for God to save us from ourselves, sin and Satan? If the world is saved "in Christ" then it appears to me that there is no sense of urgency that one might be lost and therefore people WILL stay as they are. This would be the mind set of a natural man which is common among people. "God is love and so why do I need to be concerned, I am in Christ. Praise the Lord!" Not knowing that they must have a change in heart and seek God with all their being to help them overcome the failures and sins they are daily committing and are in bondage to, wishing there were some way to stop doing those things. In Christ and His service, Norman Quote The unconditional pardon of sin never has been, and never will be. PP 522
Robert Posted January 10, 2010 Posted January 10, 2010 You are confusing believers who keep His commandments BECAUSE they love Him with the Judaizers who were advocating circumcision or law-keeping IN ORDER to be saved! And what happens if I fail to keep the commandments - what then? Quote
Robert Posted January 10, 2010 Posted January 10, 2010 "Those who win heaven [ ] will put forth their noblest efforts, and will labor with all long-suffering, that they may reap the fruit of toil." EG White Notebook Leaflets from the Elmshaven Library Vol. 1 (1945), page 74, paragraph 6 Quote
Members phkrause Posted January 10, 2010 Members Posted January 10, 2010 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo You are confusing believers who keep His commandments BECAUSE they love Him with the Judaizers who were advocating circumcision or law-keeping IN ORDER to be saved! And what happens if I fail to keep the commandments - what then? We fail his commandments everyday Robert, what than. Didn't Christ die to cover us of those failure's???????? Everyday we sin and everyday we ask him to forgive us? No! At least I do. He died for me because he loved me, and I tell him that I love him everyday by doing the things that he showed me. Like helping my neighbors, feeding those that need, etc. I go to the church on the Sabbath, like the example that he gave us and to show that I believe in the creation of this earth by him. Of course there are more I'd like to do but am limited as to all the things I can do for him. If this is what you consider legalism than so be it. I don't care, you are not the authority for how anyone decides on how they will worship God, period! pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Robert Posted January 10, 2010 Posted January 10, 2010 Didn't Christ die to cover us of those failure's???????? Absolutely not! Christ came and took my humanity into Himself and by His doing & dying He delivered me from under the law (all 3 of its demands). Christ came to create in Himself a new, glorified humanity. This life is in heaven as we speak....This life is in Him. By faith I have accepted my perfect humanity in Him. Since it is my old humanity, glorified and redeemed, and since I have accepted my position "in Christ" I have far more than a covering....I am complete in Him..... Quote
Members phkrause Posted January 10, 2010 Members Posted January 10, 2010 Originally Posted By: pkrause Didn't Christ die to cover us of those failure's???????? Absolutely not! Christ came and took my humanity into Himself and by His doing & dying He delivered me from under the law (all 3 of its demands). Christ came to create in Himself and new, glorified humanity. This life is in heaven as we speak....This life is in Him. By faith I have accepted my perfect humanity in Him. Since it is my old humanity, glorified and redeemed, and since I have accepted my position "in Christ" I have far more than a covering....I am complete in Him..... So am I Robert, and so are all others. But we all have to claim this, not just think that when he comes to gets us, he's just going to sweep us up to be with him. We have to except him as our Savior. pk pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
pnattmbtc Posted January 10, 2010 Posted January 10, 2010 The above proves EGW changed her views overtime....Maybe you should make the NT your measuring stick of truth? Setting aside the question of whether "changed her views" is the right way of putting this, the NT writers didn't "change their views" over time? Paul, for example, in all his letter writing, never learned anything, never "changed his view" on anything? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Robert Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Originally Posted By: Robert The above proves EGW changed her views overtime....Maybe you should make the NT your measuring stick of truth? Setting aside the question of whether "changed her views" is the right way of putting this, the NT writers didn't "change their views" over time? Paul, for example, in all his letter writing, never learned anything, never "changed his view" on anything? Very crafty, i.e., set at odds Paul against EGW.... No, Paul has much more authority than EGW. Do not even place them in the same category. If you do, well, that would place you in proximity to becoming a member of a cult. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Very crafty, i.e., set at odds Paul against EGW.... No, Paul has much more authority than EGW. Do not even place them in the same category. If you do, well, that would place you in proximity to becoming a member of a cult. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted January 11, 2010 Posted January 11, 2010 Yes and no....For those who hear the gospel, yes...but for those who haven't or couldn't understand or reason God does have to have a "yes I believe in you" because they don't know of Christ. Hence the following: Wherever there is an impulse of love and sympathy, wherever the heart reaches out to bless and uplift others, there is revealed the working of God’s Holy Spirit. In the depths of heathenism, men who have had no knowledge of the written law of God, who have never even heard the name of Christ, have been kind to His servants, protecting them at the risk of their own lives. Their acts show the working of a divine power [conversion]. The Holy Spirit has implanted the grace of Christ in the heart of the savage, quickening his sympathies contrary to his nature, contrary to his education. The “Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world” (John 1:9), is shining in his soul; and this light, if heeded, will guide his feet to the kingdom of God. These were converted, so they did "accept Christ," in the sense that they responded to the Holy Spirit and were born again, just like any other believer. They didn't know as much as some others, but one's knowledge is not what saves one, but if one responds to light and the Holy Spirit, one is led to repentance and is justified by faith, born again, or converted, however you wish to put it. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
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