The Holy Spirit, dwelling within...

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

When we examine the reasoning of Christ, we find that our thoughts rise up from our "feelings, desires and motives".

Not the other way around.

Regardless, all of these things are functions of the mind.

Again, you are making an assumptive statement without basis in scripture Pnat.

Mark

[teresaq]

How about when Jesus made the definition's between heart and mind.

When He changed the great commandment to bring this point out?

Why did He make that emphasis Pnat?

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

How about when Jesus made the definition's between heart and mind.

When He changed the great commandment to bring this point out?

Why did He make that emphasis Pnat?

Mark

mark, you dont appear to know the bible very well or you would know that Jesus didnt "change" the great commandment, but quoted moses...

Quote:

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

so Jesus did not change the great commandment to make any distinction between heart and mind, nor make any emphasis, as you say He did.

Originally Posted By: Twilight

You see, there is something you have missed here.

The heart itself has "brain nerves"...

not to be in "your face", but, says who, mark? you?

If you wish to ask these questions in a polite civilised manner, then I will answer them Teresa.

If not, then please do not expect an answer.

Mark

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

mark' date=' you dont appear to know the bible very well or you would know that Jesus didnt "change" the great commandment, but quoted moses...

Quote:

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

so Jesus did not change the great commandment to make any distinction between heart and mind, nor make any emphasis, as you say He did.

Originally Posted By: Twilight

You see, there is something you have missed here.

The heart itself has "brain nerves"...

not to be in "your face", but, says who, mark? you? [/quote']

If you wish to ask these questions in a polite civilised manner, then I will answer them Teresa.

If not, then please do not expect an answer.

sorry, mark, not buying!! it was funny and i am laughing, but im not buying.

your response, as your lack of responses to other similar posts, just tell me that you cant answer the posts so you take "offensive" tactics.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

sorry, mark, not buying!! it was funny and i am laughing, but im not buying.

your response, as your lack of responses to other similar posts, just tell me that you cant answer the posts so you take "offensive" tactics.

Ask the questions in a civilised Christian manner and I will answer them.

Or you can continue to attack and accuse of course.

Which will result in none of your questions being answered.

I will have to treat your posts as nothing but contentious for contentions sake.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The heart itself has "brain nerves"...

Sorry... where did you take anatomy?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

The heart itself has "brain nerves"...

Sorry... where did you take anatomy?

Are you familiar with some of the latest research on the heart and its neural network?

Mark

[Twilight]

Have a read of this:

The heart has a mind of its own: It secretes its own brain-like hormones and actively partakes in a dialogue among the internal organs a dialogue on which cardiac researchers are only beginning to eavesdrop.

http://www.rae.org/heart.html

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I read it...please give me something scientific to go by. Thanks. (something from a scientific journal would be nice..)

[Twilight]

Another link sharing the idea that old truth can be exactly that:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11023208/

[Twilight]

I read it...please give me something scientific to go by. Thanks.

This will lead you to some of the research:

http://www.heartmath.org/research/science-of-the-heart.html

An excerpt:

The Laceys noticed that this simple model only partially matched actual physiological behavior. As their research evolved, they found that the heart seemed to have its own peculiar logic that frequently diverged from the direction of the autonomic nervous system. The heart appeared to be sending meaningful messages to the brain that it not only understood, but obeyed. Even more intriguing was that it looked as though these messages could affect a person’s behavior.

[Twilight]

Some further quotes:

After extensive research, one of the early pioneers in neurocardiology, Dr. J. Andrew Armour, introduced the concept of a functional "heart brain" in 1991. His work revealed that the heart has a complex intrinsic nervous system that is sufficiently sophisticated to qualify as a "little brain" in its own right. The heart’s brain is an intricate network of several types of neurons, neurotransmitters, proteins and support cells like those found in the brain proper.

The heart has its own intrinsic nervous system that operates and processes information independently of the brain or nervous system.

The heart was reclassified as an endocrine or hormonal gland, when in 1983 a hormone produced and released by the heart called atrial natriuretic factor (ANF) was isolated. This hormone exerts its effects widely: on the blood vessels themselves, on the kidneys and the adrenal glands and on a large number of regulatory regions in the brain.

Interesting note on the kidneys here...

Mark

[Twilight]

Further quote:

Numerous experiments have now demonstrated that the messages the heart sends the brain affect our perceptions, mental processes, feeling states and performance in profound ways. Our research suggests that the heart communicates information relative to emotional state (as reflected by patterns in heart rate variability) to the cardiac center of the brain stem (medulla), which in turn feeds into the intralaminar nuclei of the thalamus and the amygdala. These areas are directly connected to the base of the frontal lobes, which are critical for decision making and the integration of reason and feeling. The intralaminar nuclei send signals to the rest of the cortex to help synchronize cortical activity, thus providing a pathway and mechanism to explain how the heart’s rhythms can alter brainwave patterns and thereby modify brain function.

Our data indicate that when heart rhythm patterns are coherent, the neural information sent to the brain facilitates cortical function. This effect is often experienced as heightened mental clarity, improved decision making and increased creativity. Additionally, coherent input from the heart tends to facilitate the experience of positive feeling states. This may explain why most people associate love and other positive feelings with the heart and why many people actually "feel" or "sense" these emotions in the area of the heart. In this way, as will be explored further in the studies presented in this Overview, the heart is intimately involved in the generation of psychophysiological coherence.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Some further quotes:

After extensive research, one of the early pioneers in neurocardiology, Dr. J. Andrew Armour, introduced the concept of a functional "heart brain" in 1991. His work revealed that the heart has a complex intrinsic nervous system that is sufficiently sophisticated to qualify as a "little brain" in its own right. The heart’s brain is an intricate network of several types of neurons, neurotransmitters, proteins and support cells like those found in the brain proper.

The heart has its own intrinsic nervous system that operates and processes information independently of the brain or nervous system.

The heart was reclassified as an endocrine or hormonal gland, when in 1983 a hormone produced and released by the heart called atrial natriuretic factor (ANF) was isolated. This hormone exerts its effects widely: on the blood vessels themselves, on the kidneys and the adrenal glands and on a large number of regulatory regions in the brain.

Interesting note on the kidneys here...

Mark

could you provide the references for your quotes? Or are they all from the site link you provided? Could you provide a scientific journal source?

And okay, I withdraw my laughing smiley... this is very interesting to me.

[Twilight]

The incredible thing is, the bible has been stating this all along.

What is even more incredible is the force with which Christians want to deny this...

Here we have an opportunity to show that the bible is scientifically accurate medically, beyond our wildest dreams.

The Word of God means what it says.

But we are so busy bringing our assumptions to it, that we cannot see the simple truths that predated science by about 3,500 years...

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Some further quotes:

After extensive research, one of the early pioneers in neurocardiology, Dr. J. Andrew Armour, introduced the concept of a functional "heart brain" in 1991. His work revealed that the heart has a complex intrinsic nervous system that is sufficiently sophisticated to qualify as a "little brain" in its own right. The heart’s brain is an intricate network of several types of neurons, neurotransmitters, proteins and support cells like those found in the brain proper.

The heart has its own intrinsic nervous system that operates and processes information independently of the brain or nervous system.

The heart was reclassified as an endocrine or hormonal gland, when in 1983 a hormone produced and released by the heart called atrial natriuretic factor (ANF) was isolated. This hormone exerts its effects widely: on the blood vessels themselves, on the kidneys and the adrenal glands and on a large number of regulatory regions in the brain.

Interesting note on the kidneys here...

Mark

could you provide the references for your quotes? Or are they all from the site link you provided? Could you provide a scientific journal source?

And okay, I withdraw my laughing smiley... this is very interesting to me.

They refer to all the research in the link I gave Pam.

I am sure you can track them all down through that.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

Science. 1985 Nov 15;230(4727):767-70.

Atrial natriuretic factor: a hormone produced by the heart.

de Bold AJ.

Systematic studies on the significance of the secretory-like morphological characteristic of cardiac atrial muscle cells of mammals led to the finding that these cells produce a polypeptide hormone. This hormone, described in 1981 as atrial natriuretic factor (ANF), is diuretic (natriuretic), hypotensive, and has an inhibitory effect on renin and aldosterone secretion. Thus, ANF probably intervenes in the short- and long-term control of water and electrolyte balance and of blood pressure. Phylogenetically, ANF appears early, suggesting different functions for this peptide in accordance with each species' environment. Knowledge of the properties of the hormone should provide insights into the pathophysiology of important clinical entities and lead to the development of new pharmaceutical products.

This puts it in the realm of true scientific research, at least it does for me. Thanks, Mark.

[SivartM]

My kidneys find this information very interesting. :)

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

How about when Jesus made the definition's between heart and mind.

When He changed the great commandment to bring this point out?

Why did He make that emphasis Pnat?

Mark

mark, you dont appear to know the bible very well or you would know that Jesus didnt "change" the great commandment, but quoted moses...

Quote:

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

so Jesus did not change the great commandment to make any distinction between heart and mind, nor make any emphasis, as you say He did.

[teresaq]

Have a read of this:

The heart has a mind of its own: It secretes its own brain-like hormones and actively partakes in a dialogue among the internal organs a dialogue on which cardiac researchers are only beginning to eavesdrop.

http://www.rae.org/heart.html

yes, this is interesting, mark.

ive studied some on the brain and the synapses that takes place between the nuerons.

if i understood the research correctly it is not talking about the same thing that happens in the "mind", thought, as it is physical communication between nerves.

so i, cant see that it is related in the sense that we are talking about.

but now i know where you got your ideas from. id been wanting to ask you what book you had read. :)

[teresaq]

The incredible thing is, the bible has been stating this all along.

What is even more incredible is the force with which Christians want to deny this...

Here we have an opportunity to show that the bible is scientifically accurate medically, beyond our wildest dreams.

The Word of God means what it says.

But we are so busy bringing our assumptions to it, that we cannot see the simple truths that predated science by about 3,500 years...

[teresaq]

Another link sharing the idea that old truth can be exactly that:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11023208/

[pnattmbtc]

I would be careful taking one quote from Ellen White and building a doctrine on the Holy Spirit and His function and means of communication...

[pnattmbtc]

Let's get back to the Holy Spirit dwelling in the heart. Let's assume that the heart here is the literal heart, in the chest region. How does the Holy Spirit literally dwell in it?

[Twilight]

Quote:

Science. 1985 Nov 15;230(4727):767-70.

Atrial natriuretic factor: a hormone produced by the heart.

de Bold AJ.

Systematic studies on the significance of the secretory-like morphological characteristic of cardiac atrial muscle cells of mammals led to the finding that these cells produce a polypeptide hormone. This hormone, described in 1981 as atrial natriuretic factor (ANF), is diuretic (natriuretic), hypotensive, and has an inhibitory effect on renin and aldosterone secretion. Thus, ANF probably intervenes in the short- and long-term control of water and electrolyte balance and of blood pressure. Phylogenetically, ANF appears early, suggesting different functions for this peptide in accordance with each species' environment. Knowledge of the properties of the hormone should provide insights into the pathophysiology of important clinical entities and lead to the development of new pharmaceutical products.

This puts it in the realm of true scientific research, at least it does for me. Thanks, Mark.

The opening of one person's mind to the possibility is adequate reward Pam.

Thank you. :-)

Mark