pnattmbtc Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 Looks like this thread is dying, and I never did get an explanation as to what it means to say that the Holy Spirit literally dwells within us. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
teresaq Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 the same way He is in the tree and water, like air? oh, that wont work cause air isnt in the tree or water. it is outside of it, or on it. it doesnt look like God designed material beings or things to inhabit other material beings or things. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
teresaq Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 but then we are in "error", so what would we know? :) Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
pnattmbtc Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 Air is in us, though, since we breath it. So one could say the Holy Spirit is in us, like air is (in fact, this was said). I don't know if this is what was meant, however, because the phrase was simply asserted and repeated, but not explained. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Guest Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 Looks like this thread is dying, and I never did get an explanation as to what it means to say that the Holy Spirit literally dwells within us. Yes you did, you just refused to acknowledge it. Quote
teresaq Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc Looks like this thread is dying, and I never did get an explanation as to what it means to say that the Holy Spirit literally dwells within us. Yes you did, you just refused to acknowledge it. what do you think about ellen whites warnings about pantheism and spiritualism, richard? have you had much opportunity to study that out? do you think it might be warnings we should take seriously and understand thoroughly? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
SivartM Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 The Spirit is not material. He's a spirit. How He can dwell in us is beyond our comprehension. Which is good, because if we could understand things like that, we'd probably be bored all the time. :) Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
teresaq Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 what is a "spirit"? does the bible tell us? or are we operating from pagan understandings? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
SivartM Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 How should I know? I can only barely comprehend physical beings. My understanding is that spirits exist in a parallel dimension separate from our own physical world. The two dimensions were once united but were separated when we separated ourselves from God, and only overlap occasionally or invisibly. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
teresaq Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 not meaning to be "in your face" , but again, where does this understanding come from? is it in the bible? according to this, for one, it gives evidence that they are in our "dimension" but invisible to us? 2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
SivartM Posted January 2, 2010 Posted January 2, 2010 That's what I meant by "parallel" dimensions. The spiritual world, as I understand it, is parallel to ours, but there is a sort of dimensional barrier. In my opinion, it's way too difficult for anyone to fully understand. But that's the best explanation I know of. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Twilight Posted January 3, 2010 Author Posted January 3, 2010 not meaning to be "in your face" , but again, where does this understanding come from? is it in the bible? according to this, for one, it gives evidence that they are in our "dimension" but invisible to us? 2Ki 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. So what do you think "spirit" means Teresa? What do you think it means when it says the Holy Spirit dwells "in" us? Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
pnattmbtc Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc Looks like this thread is dying, and I never did get an explanation as to what it means to say that the Holy Spirit literally dwells within us. Yes you did, you just refused to acknowledge it. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Twilight Posted January 3, 2010 Author Posted January 3, 2010 As the SOP points out: Quote: The brain nerves which communicate with the entire system are the only medium through which Heaven can communicate to man and affect his inmost life.(CG 446) All meaningful interaction with the Holy Spirit involves "the brain nerves." While Christ is dwelling in the heart by his Spirit, it is impossible for the light of his presence to be concealed or to grow dim. On the contrary, it will grow brighter and brighter, as day by day the mists of selfishness and sin that envelop the soul are dispelled by the bright beams of the Sun of righteousness. {ST, October 20, 1887 par. 3} Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
pnattmbtc Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc As the SOP points out: Quote: The brain nerves which communicate with the entire system are the only medium through which Heaven can communicate to man and affect his inmost life.(CG 446) All meaningful interaction with the Holy Spirit involves "the brain nerves." While Christ is dwelling in the heart by his Spirit, it is impossible for the light of his presence to be concealed or to grow dim. On the contrary, it will grow brighter and brighter, as day by day the mists of selfishness and sin that envelop the soul are dispelled by the bright beams of the Sun of righteousness. {ST, October 20, 1887 par. 3} Putting these together, since "The brain nerves which communicate with the entire system are the only medium through which Heaven can communicate to man and affect his inmost life," obviously Christ's dwelling in the heart by His Spirit involves the brain nerves. Either that, or it doesn't affect "his inmost life." Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
teresaq Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 this was the original question from me to sivart. so please do share.... what is a "spirit"? does the bible tell us? or are we operating from pagan understandings? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Twilight Posted January 4, 2010 Author Posted January 4, 2010 Originally Posted By: Twilight While Christ is dwelling in the heart by his Spirit' date=' it is impossible for the light of his presence to be concealed or to grow dim. On the contrary, it will grow brighter and brighter, as day by day the mists of selfishness and sin that envelop the soul are dispelled by the bright beams of the Sun of righteousness. {ST, October 20, 1887 par. 3} [/quote'] Putting these together, since "The brain nerves which communicate with the entire system are the only medium through which Heaven can communicate to man and affect his inmost life," obviously Christ's dwelling in the heart by His Spirit involves the brain nerves. Either that, or it doesn't affect "his inmost life." Since I translate my doctrine by Bible first, then SOP, I would prefer to start from a biblical position, rather than a text that describes communication processes, which do not refute the point. How about when Jesus made the definition's between heart and mind. When He changed the great commandment to bring this point out? Why did He make that emphasis Pnat? Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
teresaq Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 How about when Jesus made the definition's between heart and mind. When He changed the great commandment to bring this point out? Why did He make that emphasis Pnat? Mark Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Twilight Posted January 4, 2010 Author Posted January 4, 2010 did He make a differentiation' date=' mark, or are you reading that into it? Quote: Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [/quote'] No. It says what it says. If Jesus had said that we should love God with all our mind, including the emotions, you might have a point. But He did not say that. He said heart. And then notice: AND mind. There is an "AND" there. Implying that there are two different things under consideration. If "heart" means "mind", then why not just say: Love Him will all your mind? But it does not. So we cannot say that it just means mind, because it says AND heart... Mark Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
teresaq Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) did He make a differentiation' date=' mark, or are you reading that into it? Quote: Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Jesus saying we should love Him with our feelings, andour whole being, as well as intellectually or, stated another way, not just intellectually? that the truth should permeate us?[/quote'] No. It says what it says. If Jesus had said that we should love God with all our mind, including the emotions, you might have a point. it is generally understood, in our culture, that heart means emotions. as for your points i have to stick with the original meaning of the words to get my understanding, not your interpretation of the english words used in the translation. you do understand that, dont you? heart G2588 kardia Prolonged from a primary κάρ kar (Latin cor, “heart”); the heart, that is, (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle: - (+ broken-) heart (-ed). mind G1271 dianoia From G1223 and G3563; deep thought, properly the faculty (mind or its disposition), by implication its exercise: - imagination, mind, understanding. G5590 psuchē From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you. we are to love God with all our understanding, feelings, and being. our thoughts create out feelings. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Twilight Posted January 4, 2010 Author Posted January 4, 2010 Originally Posted By: Twilight it is generally understood, in our culture, that heart means emotions. as for your points i have to stick with the original meaning of the words to get my understanding, not your interpretation of the english words used in the translation. you do understand that, dont you? heart G2588 kardia Prolonged from a primary κάρ kar (Latin cor, “heart”); the heart, that is, (figuratively) the thoughts or feelings (mind); also (by analogy) the middle: - (+ broken-) heart (-ed). mind G1271 dianoia From G1223 and G3563; deep thought, properly the faculty (mind or its disposition), by implication its exercise: - imagination, mind, understanding. G5590 psuchē From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you. we are to love God with all our understanding, feelings, and being. our thoughts create out feelings. Why should we project "our" cultural understanding back onto the Greek text? Wouldn't that be assumption? Us assuming that the English explains the Greek? ------------- When we examine the reasoning of Christ, we find that our thoughts rise up from our "feelings, desires and motives". Not the other way around. This misunderstanding is another example of how we allow our "bias" of 20th century psychology to influence our understanding of the bible. -------------- What I am challenging you all to do, is take the word "heart" in the NT, read it without any bias prayerfully and see if it makes sense. See if it fits everything if read literally as the "heart" having function... Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
teresaq Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda) did He make a differentiation, mark, or are you reading that into it? Quote: Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Jesus saying we should love Him with our feelings, andour whole being, as well as intellectually or, stated another way, not just intellectually? that the truth should permeate us? No. It says what it says. If Jesus had said that we should love God with all our mind, including the emotions, you might have a point. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
pnattmbtc Posted January 5, 2010 Posted January 5, 2010 Since I translate my doctrine by Bible first, then SOP, I would prefer to start from a biblical position, rather than a text that describes communication processes, which do not refute the point. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted January 5, 2010 Posted January 5, 2010 When we examine the reasoning of Christ, we find that our thoughts rise up from our "feelings, desires and motives". Not the other way around. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Twilight Posted January 5, 2010 Author Posted January 5, 2010 Originally Posted By: Twilight Since I translate my doctrine by Bible first, then SOP, I would prefer to start from a biblical position, rather than a text that describes communication processes, which do not refute the point. It doesn't matter where you start or end, the fact remains that the only way God communicates with man is through the nerve endings of the brain, which is the only thing that affects his inmost life (which is what the "heart" represents, the inmost life of man). Quote: How about when Jesus made the definition's between heart and mind. When He changed the great commandment to bring this point out? Why did He make that emphasis Pnat? I've already addressed this multiple times. I would be careful taking one quote from Ellen White and building a doctrine on the Holy Spirit and His function and means of communication... You see, there is something you have missed here. The heart itself has "brain nerves"... Mark :-) Quote The best wisdom is always second hand...
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