The Holy Spirit, dwelling within...

[Twilight]

Further.

Pnat,

The law being written on our hearts and minds is not the same as the Holy Spirit dwelling within.

These two principles are totally seperate in the new covenant.

You have confused these two points.

You are presenting the law being written on our hearts and minds as the same as the Holy Spirit dwelling within.

I also suspect Teresa has this misunderstanding also.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Quote:

Ok, maybe it would still matter. But my point is that the text plainly states that your body is a temple for the HS, and that he dwells in you.

1Co 3:16,17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The temple the Holy Spirit dwells in is our mind. For example:

Quote:

The Holy Spirit found in Timothy a mind that could be molded and fashioned to become a temple for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, because he submitted to be molded. (CT 310)

Nice prooftext pnat.

What about all the quotes that show the Holy Spirit dwells in the heart, with a reference to the mind as well being seperate?

[Twilight]

The Holy Spirit does not literally dwell in us as we dwell in a house. It's a figure of speech,

Why is it?

[Steve Billiter]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

The Holy Spirit does not literally dwell in us as we dwell in a house. It's a figure of speech,

Why is it?

I prefer to accept the Bible and the SOP as to the office work of the Holy spirit.

Christ was teaching, and, as usual, others besides His disciples had gathered about Him. He had been speaking to the disciples of the scenes in which they were soon to act a part. They were to publish abroad the truths He had committed to them, and they would be brought in conflict with the rulers of this world. For His sake they would be called into courts, and before magistrates and kings. He had assured them of wisdom which none could gainsay. His own words, that moved the hearts of the multitude, and brought to confusion His wily adversaries, witnessed to the power of that indwelling Spirit which He had promised to His followers. {COL 252.1}

He will go out before God in the spirit and power of Elijah--to reconcile fathers and children, and bring back the disobedient to the wisdom of good men--and he will make a people fully ready for their Lord. Luke 1:17, Phillips. {CC 271.1}

God had called the son of Zacharias to a great work, the greatest ever committed to men. . . . John was to go forth as Jehovah's messenger, to bring to men the light of God. He must give a new direction to their thoughts. He must impress them with the holiness of God's requirements, and their need of His perfect righteousness. Such a messenger must be holy. He must be a temple for the indwelling Spirit of God. In order to fulfill his mission, he must have a sound physical constitution, and mental and spiritual strength. Therefore it would be necessary for him to control the appetites and passions. He must be able so to control all his powers that he could stand among men as unmoved by surrounding circumstances as the rocks and mountains of the wilderness. {CC 271.2}

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

I was talking about the manual on greek grammar, not the guy's crazy beliefs. [/quote']since the "authority" comes from a preconceived strong spiritualism bent i have a hard time seeing how he could be a reliable authority on the greek language and its nuances and meanings.

John said, and I agree with:

Dana and Mantey are well recognized authorities on Greek grammar, and their book is used widely in virtually every university where NT Greek is taught, including Seventh-day Adventist schools. You are talking about a quote in this book that was taken from the pen of a great NT scholar named Deissman. It would be foolish to judge Dana and Mantey's Greek grammar on the basis of a quote by Deissman that has nothing to do directly with the Greek language. Do you have a good idea of the beliefs of Adolf Deissman?

Here's an example of his work: http://ntresources.com/documents/deissman.pdf

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Ok, maybe it would still matter. But my point is that the text plainly states that your body is a temple for the HS, and that he dwells in you.

1Co 3:16,17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Do you see the incredulity expressed by Paul here Richard?

He is saying:

What?

Don't you know this simple truth?

That you are a temple and the Holy Spirit is "within" you.

Mark :-)

Yes I do see it.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Why is it? [/quote']

I prefer to accept the Bible and the SOP as to the office work of the Holy spirit.

Christ was teaching, and, as usual, others besides His disciples had gathered about Him. He had been speaking to the disciples of the scenes in which they were soon to act a part. They were to publish abroad the truths He had committed to them, and they would be brought in conflict with the rulers of this world. For His sake they would be called into courts, and before magistrates and kings. He had assured them of wisdom which none could gainsay. His own words, that moved the hearts of the multitude, and brought to confusion His wily adversaries, witnessed to the power of that indwelling Spirit which He had promised to His followers. {COL 252.1}

He will go out before God in the spirit and power of Elijah--to reconcile fathers and children, and bring back the disobedient to the wisdom of good men--and he will make a people fully ready for their Lord. Luke 1:17, Phillips. {CC 271.1}

God had called the son of Zacharias to a great work, the greatest ever committed to men. . . . John was to go forth as Jehovah's messenger, to bring to men the light of God. He must give a new direction to their thoughts. He must impress them with the holiness of God's requirements, and their need of His perfect righteousness. Such a messenger must be holy. He must be a temple for the indwelling Spirit of God. In order to fulfill his mission, he must have a sound physical constitution, and mental and spiritual strength. Therefore it would be necessary for him to control the appetites and passions. He must be able so to control all his powers that he could stand among men as unmoved by surrounding circumstances as the rocks and mountains of the wilderness. {CC 271.2}

Indeed.

The bible uses so many ways to teach us of this simple truth.

It is the "C" of the overcoming life.

Here is the ABC of the overcoming life:

A. Awareness of our spiritual poverty and great need.

B. The merits (blood) of Christ as our all sufficient argument for reconciliation with God (justification).

C. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit to carry out the work in us of sanctification.

These three steps are essential.

To deny any one of them, is to deny the process God has laid out before us, that we must co-operate with, if He is to get us home.

Mark

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Do you see the incredulity expressed by Paul here Richard?

He is saying:

What?

Don't you know this simple truth?

That you are a temple and the Holy Spirit is "within" you.

Mark :-)[/quote']

Yes I do see it.

Further to this, consider that this is the solution to the Corinthian churches problems.

Which were:

1Cr 3:1 ¶ And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ.

1Cr 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.

1Cr 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

This solution of the indwelling Spirit, applies to these problems.

Think about our movement, the Adventist movement.

What is the biggest problem?

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas [there is] among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

What is the solution to this problem?

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Cr 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

And as you have pointed out before, the Holy Ghost is "in you", in this text.

So what do we lack?

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit...

Mark :-)

[pnattmbtc]

Me:You would agree that God is everywhere, right?

[pnattmbtc]

Because people were made to be inhabited by God's Spirit, and therefore Satan hates us and loves to see those for whom Christ died and who were made in God's image being controlled or possessed by evil spirits and becoming his partner in the warfare against Christ. He can't strike at God or Christ except as he attacks and destroys us.

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

Pnat,

The law being written on our hearts and minds is not the same as the Holy Spirit dwelling within.

These two principles are totally seperate in the new covenant.

You have confused these two points.

You are presenting the law being written on our hearts and minds as the same as the Holy Spirit dwelling within.

I also suspect Teresa has this misunderstanding also.

Mark :-)

If you understand what the dwelling of the Holy Spirit within is, you should be able to explain what it means. You are, yet again, invited to do so.

[pnattmbtc]

Nice prooftext pnat.

What about all the quotes that show the Holy Spirit dwells in the heart, with a reference to the mind as well being seperate?

You said earlier that the heart is literal. The heart, speaking literally, is a muscle which pumps blood. So your thought is that the Holy Spirit literally dwells within our blood pumping muscles?

Do you really not perceive that when the word "heart" is used in Scripture (such as "believe with all your heart" "a new heart" and so forth) that it's not the muscle that's being referred to? These expressions are all referring to activities of the mind.

[pnattmbtc]

God had called the son of Zacharias to a great work, the greatest ever committed to men. . . . John was to go forth as Jehovah's messenger, to bring to men the light of God. He must give a new direction to their thoughts. He must impress them with the holiness of God's requirements, and their need of His perfect righteousness. Such a messenger must be holy. He must be a temple for the indwelling Spirit of God. In order to fulfill his mission, he must have a sound physical constitution, and mental and spiritual strength. Therefore it would be necessary for him to control the appetites and passions. He must be able so to control all his powers that he could stand among men as unmoved by surrounding circumstances as the rocks and mountains of the wilderness. {CC 271.2}

The above is a quote from the SOP. I don't understand how you're not seeing this quote is in harmony with the principles I've been presenting. It says

a.He must impress them with the holiness of God's requirements, and their need of His perfect righteousness. (activity of the mind)

b.Such a messenger must be holy. (activity of the mind)

c.Therefore it would be necessary for him to control the appetites and passions. (activity of the mind)

d.He must be able so to control all his powers that he could stand among men as unmoved by surrounding circumstances as the rocks and mountains of the wilderness. (activity of the mind)

Everything surrounding the sentence "He must be a temple for the indwelling Spirit of God" is speaking of the activity of the mind. The whole point is that in order to be one with God, to commune with him, to have peace with Him, we need to subject our will, our desire, our heart to Him. Everything spoke of here involves the mind.

There is no indwelling of the Holy Spirit that does not involve the mind.

[Guest]

Hey Pnatt, why don't you put a picture of something there where your avatar goes, so we don't have to keep looking at that red X.

[pnattmbtc]

I don't see a red X. I see a smiley face.

[Guest]

There is a little smiley face right beside your name, but underneath is a red X where you tried to post an avatar and it failed. That's what it looks like anyway. Maybe if you go to edit profile you can see wjat's going on.

[pnattmbtc]

I don't see a red X.

[Guest]

I'm telling you pnatt there is a red X there. Everybody else can see it. It's shameful.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I don't see a red X. I see a blue box with a question mark.

[Guest]

That's wierd, I see a red X.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

since the "authority" comes from a preconceived strong spiritualism bent i have a hard time seeing how he could be a reliable authority on the greek language and its nuances and meanings.

... one sentence that is an illustration of an idea, ...

[teresaq]

What does the Scripture say about whether demons enter people's bodies and are forced to come out of human bodies through the authority of Jesus Christ?

Mark 9: 17-27--

17 Then one of the crowd answered and said, “Teacher, I brought You my son, who has a mute spirit. 18 And wherever it seizes him, it throws him down; he foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. So I spoke to Your disciples, that they should cast it out, but they could not.”

19 He answered him and said, “O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him to Me.” 20 Then they brought him to Him. And when he saw Him, immediately the spirit convulsed him, and he fell on the ground and wallowed, foaming at the mouth.

21 So He asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?”

And he said, “From childhood. 22 And often he has thrown him both into the fire and into the water to destroy him. But if You can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.”

23 Jesus said to him, “If you can believe,all things are possible to him who believes.”

24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”

25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!” 26 Then the spirit cried out, convulsed him greatly, and came out of him. And he became as one dead, so that many said, “He is dead.” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose.

Note: When it says the spirit cried out, it means the spirit spoke through the boys mouth, using the child's voice box and tongue to make sounds. This still happens today in cultured, modern America, even with the most educated and sophisticated among us, including doctors, pastors, lawyers, psychologists, etc. Jesus is still able to free these slaves of Satan and He does it more often than many people would ever guess.

Why do the demons do this? Why would they want to take possession of people's bodies and minds in this way, and actually inhabit them?

Because people were made to be inhabited by God's Spirit, and therefore Satan hates us and loves to see those for whom Christ died and who were made in God's image being controlled or possessed by evil spirits and becoming his partner in the warfare against Christ. He can't strike at God or Christ except as he attacks and destroys us.

john, do you really think we should take someones subjective understanding over an indepth study of our own?

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

the context

Quote:

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

1Co 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Do you see the incredulity expressed by Paul here Richard?

He is saying:

What?

Don't you know this simple truth?

That you are a temple and the Holy Spirit is "within" you.

[Twilight]

The Holy Spirit dwelling within is part of the New Covenant.

Without it, obedience is impossible.

I will be starting a new thread on something that may help clarify some of the confusion that is around this wonderful truth.

Mark :-)

[teresaq]

The Holy Spirit dwelling within is part of the New Covenant.

Without it, obedience is impossible.

I will be starting a new thread on something that may help clarify some of the confusion that is around this wonderful truth.

hmmm, sounds more like you want to give a sermon on what you believe, than have any kind of give and take discussion.... :)