Is Salvation Conditional?

[Robert]

If you guys want to discuss Galatians, feel free to start another thread.

Can't....John has me restricted under theology....Can't start a post here....Not because I did something, but because John is in control....

[Gerr]

Robert, you are welcome here. All we ask is that you follow the rules and to stick to the topic at hand.

[Robert]

Robert, you are welcome here. All we ask is that you follow the rules and to stick to the topic at hand.

I can't start a post here....I can reply, but I can't begin something on Gal....

[pnattmbtc]

Originally Posted By: pnattmbtc

Personal salvation is conditional, but corporately Christ saved the entire human race. "To the death of Christ, we owe even this earthly life."

As to the condition for personal salvation:

Quote:

For God so loved the world, He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Are you defining salvation as the prevention of death?

Well, that's the $69,000 question, isn't it? Corporate salvation I would define as the act Christ took to prevent the race from being destroyed immediately in Eden. "As soon as their was sin, there was a Savior."

Personal salvation, in the context of the quote I proved (John 3:16) could be seen as equivalent with being born again.

The Greek work for "saved" means the same as "healed." I like that concept very much as well (i.e., personal salvation = being healed).

It terms of what we are saved from, I think of this in terms of sin (i.e., we are saved from sin, or the effects of sin). We are saved in this way by being "yoked to Christ" as you so nicely put it.

[pnattmbtc]

If you guys want to discuss Galatians, feel free to start another thread.

I don't understand this comment. If the desire is to study the conditions of salvation from Scripture, I can think of no better place to consider in Scripture than Galatians.

[Gerr]

Galatians covers different aspects of salvation.

The reference made Re: Galatians had nothing to do with the subject at hand, but feel free to quote Galatians that has to do with our current discussion.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Yes, I am saying that, and so did the prophet.

It should be remembered that the promises and the threatenings of God are alike conditional. {Ev 695.1}

Let the human agent consider that in any position where God has placed him, he must put entire confidence in God. The righteousness of the unfallen beings of the eternal world, and of the inhabitants of this world fallen because of sin, is conditional upon their faithful obedience to the law of God, which is holy, just, and good. All created beings must derive their life from God. Not one can be, or do good, only as he lives in daily dependence upon God. And not a soul is righteous any longer than he is in vital relation to God, the source of all virtue, of life, of love, of power.

How then can you reconcile this with:

21 But now God has shown us how to become right with him. The Law and the Prophets give witness to this. It has nothing to do with obeying the law.

22 We are made right with God by putting our faith in Jesus Christ. That happens to all who believe. It is no different for the Jews than for anyone else.

23 Everyone has sinned. No one measures up to God’s glory.

24 The free gift of God’s grace makes all of us right with him. Christ Jesus paid the price to set us free.

25 God gave him as a sacrifice to pay for sins. So he forgives the sins of those who have faith in his blood. God did all of that to prove that he is fair. Because of his mercy he did not punish people for the sins they had committed before Jesus died for them. Rom 3 NCV

[Gerr]

If you are referring to the EGW quote vis-a-vis the quote from Romans, yes, on the surface, there seems to be an apparent contradiction. The EGW quote seems to imply that one's salvation is BASED on his obedience. There are other SOP references that totally agree with the Romans quote.

[teresaq]

thats interesting because i think it depends on which part is stressed as to which conclusion one could come to. i am obedient only as long as i am in Christ.

Quote:

And not a soul is righteous any longer than he is in vital relation to God, the source of all virtue, of life, of love, of power.

having gone back and read the start of this topic ill leave it at that.

in keeping with the topic, i think "salvation" sometimes is used when it should be "redeemed".

Christ redeemed all, as well as the earth.

ill let others flesh that out since im rather brain-dead and cant expand more at the moment. so sorry.

[karl]

If you are referring to the EGW quote vis-a-vis the quote from Romans, yes, on the surface, there seems to be an apparent contradiction. The EGW quote seems to imply that one's salvation is BASED on his obedience. There are other SOP references that totally agree with the Romans quote.

I think she says in numerous places that the conditions of salvation are just what they have always been - perfect adherence to all of God's requirements.

Now that we know WHAT must be done, the next question is, "HOW is this to be done?"

[teresaq]

yes, but then were getting off topic.

Quote:

If salvation is NOT conditional, on what evidence?

If salvation IS conditional, what are the conditions?

so would you like to start a bible study on that?

im hoping members get to start studies also. :)

[karl]

I posted this on another discussion:

Quote:

Originally Posted By: wayfinder

John 8:31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine ; 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

Abide in My word and you are truly disciples of Mine.

Do you think there is a difference between being a believer and being a disciple?

Jesus had a lot to say about the requirements of being His disciple, yet lots of people think being a believer involves no requirements.

[wayfinder]

There is a huge difference. A believer believes in the Man Jesus Christ, that He lived and died and rose from the tomb. The disciple learns the teaching of the Son of God and puts His teachings into practice. I have found that the vast majority of Christians can tell you volumes of what Paul taught, but very little about what the Son of God taught.

[teresaq]

is this related to whether salvation is conditional or not.

[wayfinder]

Salvation is conditional: Learn and practice the teachings of the Son of God and you will be set free from sining, because you will know the truth.

Believe in the Man, Jesus Christ, and you can go on sinning and not be saved.

[Guest]

Yep, even the devils believe.

[teresaq]

i was going to respond but then realized it had already gone off-topic and i would be continuing. :)

[Robert]

Salvation is conditional: Learn and practice the teachings of the Son of God and you will be set free from sining, because you will know the truth. Believe in the Man, Jesus Christ, and you can go on sinning and not be saved.

Legalism

[Gerr]

thats interesting because i think it depends on which part is stressed as to which conclusion one could come to. i am obedient only as long as i am in Christ.

I totally agree. However, our obedience, then, is NOT the cause or basis of our being saved, rather it is the RESULT of it.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

If you are referring to the EGW quote vis-a-vis the quote from Romans, yes, on the surface, there seems to be an apparent contradiction. The EGW quote seems to imply that one's salvation is BASED on his obedience. There are other SOP references that totally agree with the Romans quote.

I think she says in numerous places that the conditions of salvation are just what they have always been - perfect adherence to all of God's requirements.

If salvation is on the basis of OUR "perfect adherence to all of God's requirements," then the whole human race would have to be written off. Man simply is unable to render it. That is why the righteousness that saves has nothing to do with law on our part, it is totally by grace, to be received by faith, Rom 3:20-24, Eph 2:8,9.

Quote:

Now that we know WHAT must be done, the next question is, "HOW is this to be done?"

This righteousness that saves is to be received by faith. See above. "Those who are right with God will live by faith," Hab 2:4 NCV.

They will obey by faith, eat by faith, work by faith, share by faith, study the word by faith, faithful to their spouse by faith, breathe and move by faith. Everything the believer does is the outgrowth of that faith relationship with God.

Genuine faith then, is the one absolute condition without which no one can be saved. "Without faith it is impossible to please Him."

[Gerr]

yes, but then were getting off topic.

Quote:

If salvation is NOT conditional, on what evidence?

If salvation IS conditional, what are the conditions?

so would you like to start a bible study on that?

im hoping members get to start studies also.

Would I like to start a Bible study on that? That is the reason for this thread. Please, give us your thoughts.

[Gerr]

Here are other conditions:

1. Unless you repent, you will perish, Lk 13:3

2. Unless you are converted, you will not enter heaven, Mt 18:3

3. If we do not forgive, we cannot be forgiven, Mt 6:15.

4. Feel free to add to this list, but all the above and whatever else follow,

are the result of that basic ingredient, i.e. faith relationship with God.

[Woody]

Back to the topic ...

Salvation is conditional upon perfect obedience. The perfect obedience in the life of Jesus Christ some 2,000 years ago. He is the only one who could and did fulfill the requirement of Salvation. And His life is accounted for as our's if we so desire.

Those who desire this are saved and accounted Righteous.

Those are the conditions folks. PERFECT Obedience is the only answer to the curse of the law. And folks ... you and I don't have it. Only Jesus does and we must have His Robe covering our sinful life in order to be saved.

[karl]

Do you think there is a difference between being a believer and being a disciple?

Jesus had a lot to say about the requirements of being His disciple, yet lots of people think being a believer involves no requirements.

[wayfinder]

Legalizm, no. Law abiding yes.