LifeHiscost Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 You are absolutely correct, but Paul also seems to use the terms "saved by grace" "saved by faith" interchangeably. As I can best recall, you're quite right. Still placing Jesus as the primary Condition for salvation, since Jesus did nothing that the Spirit did not tell Him to do, not to mention that faith is a fruit and gift of the Holy Spirit. "Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner."John 5:19 NKJV "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure." John 3:34 NKJV Joy!! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Gerr Posted January 3, 2010 Author Moderators Posted January 3, 2010 EGW makes it quite clear that faith itself has NO saving merit. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted January 3, 2010 Author Moderators Posted January 3, 2010 Quote: I stand corrected For a moment ... I thought we had a new beginning here. But when I looked more closely ... you weren't saying this to Robert. Oh well. Nice thought. Well, Red, I've never said I don't make mistakes or that I am not in error on anything. I have no problem saying, "I'm wrong and stand corrected," to you, Robert, or anyone else if proven to be in error. I am a work in progress and so are my beliefs. Quote
Robert Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 I am a work in progress and so are my beliefs. Now that's honesty.... Quote
Steve Billiter Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 EGW makes it quite clear that faith itself has NO saving merit. [/quoteChrists sacrifice and atonement are the merits. Our faith enables us to accept that. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted January 3, 2010 Author Moderators Posted January 3, 2010 Yes. Thank you. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Originally Posted By: Steve Billiter Yes. Thank you. As long as one accepts the fact that faith in fallen humanity is not an inherent quality, I could accept that. The way I read the following texts, any faith I have comes from outside of myself. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God..." Ephesian2 2:8 KJV One might posit something besides faith is being referred to, when it says, "and that not of yourselves". "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."Romans 12:3 KJV Joy! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Woody Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo I am a work in progress and so are my beliefs. Now that's honesty.... If only more realized this truth for ourselves. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â
Moderators Gerr Posted January 4, 2010 Author Moderators Posted January 4, 2010 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo I am a work in progress and so are my beliefs. Now that's honesty.... I have never claimed otherwise. Quote
pnattmbtc Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 As long as one accepts the fact that faith in fallen humanity is not an inherent quality, I could accept that. The way I read the following texts, any faith I have comes from outside of myself. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
karl Posted January 4, 2010 Posted January 4, 2010 As long as one accepts the fact that faith in fallen humanity is not an inherent quality, I could accept that. The way I read the following texts, any faith I have comes from outside of myself. Why would there be any reason for a person not to have saving faith? If God makes it and wants everyone to have it, why doesn't everyone have it? Is it because they don't have the faith to have the faith? Keep the faith, baby. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted January 5, 2010 Posted January 5, 2010 Originally Posted By: LifeHisCost As long as one accepts the fact that faith in fallen humanity is not an inherent quality, I could accept that. The way I read the following texts, any faith I have comes from outside of myself. Your comment reminded me of the following, from Waggoner: The whole quote was very good and reminds me of the truthfulness of this scripture. "Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."Matthew 17:19-21 KJV BTW, it is my understanding the underlined above is not found in earlier biblical manuscripts and while having some merit in preparing for asking something worthwhile, the fulfillment of the request does not have to be dependent on the fasting and praying condition. I'm more apt to abide by the experience described below, than that above. "And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him. The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel." Matthew 8:7-10 KJV Joy! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted January 5, 2010 Posted January 5, 2010 Why would there be any reason for a person not to have saving faith? If God makes it and wants everyone to have it, why doesn't everyone have it? Is it because they don't have the faith to have the faith? Keep the faith, baby. While I believe there are spiritual insights from the scriptures that give the answer more adequately than this below, this is the one I often rely on when I'm uncertain. "And now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now holdeth back will hold him back, until he is taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming--"2 Thess 2:6-8 21st Century KJV Joy!! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
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