Woody Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 I guess I should have been disfellowshipped. Maybe I should be now because I'm certainly not doing a very good job of being a good SDA Christian. Same here Pam. I do a pretty rotten job also. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Renewed_faith Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 I am new here, but has God ever disfellowshipped us ever? Is disfellowshipping basically saying 'goodbye' to someone? Don't the JW's disfellowship their people should they live in a way that is not within their religion? What about the Amish? They live with a high standard of what they believe. Do SDA's live their religion to that high standard or is it moreso that they live it on the Sabbath but not really any other days of the week? I am asking because I am sort of re-learning religion. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted January 17, 2010 Moderators Posted January 17, 2010 I know that I should have been disfellowshipped, and I may have been and just never knew it. I rarely went to church and when I did I sometimes would even go drunk & smelling of alcohol after being out drinking the night before. At times I would spend the entire church service in the bathroom stalls on the floor by the toilet. I was also living in homosexuals relationships and did not try very hard to hide it. No one other than my parents ever talked to me about any of this, though. Church members were actually very nice and would ask me to come to their homes for Sabbath dinner. This kind of thing went on for years. Looking back, I wish that the pastor had visited me just as a friend and talked to me about Christ and God's love and power. I never stopped believing in the Bible and in God, and I wasn't rebellious against the church. I just wanted to experience "the world," but then after living that way, I couldn't quit. I got into bad habits and into sins that I was helpless to stop on my own. I honestly do not know how I would have reacted if I'd been told I was going to be disfellowshipped. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 I think your observations are quite correct RF. And welcome. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 17, 2010 Members Posted January 17, 2010 I sometimes wish I was dead. My faith in God is so weak and I can't go to church because I'm too frightened. I don't go visiting people. I don't read my Bible, except maybe Psalms...the NT confuses me. I think I'm a big disappointment to God. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Members phkrause Posted January 17, 2010 Members Posted January 17, 2010 I know that I should have been disfellowshipped, and I may have been and just never knew it. I rarely went to church and when I did I sometimes would even go drunk & smelling of alcohol after being out drinking the night before. At times I would spend the entire church service in the bathroom stalls on the floor by the toilet. I was also living in homosexuals relationships and did not try very hard to hide it. No one other than my parents ever talked to me about any of this, though. Church members were actually very nice and would ask me to come to their homes for Sabbath dinner. This kind of thing went on for years. Looking back, I wish that the pastor had visited me just as a friend and talked to me about Christ and God's love and power. I never stopped believing in the Bible and in God, and I wasn't rebellious against the church. I just wanted to experience "the world," but then after living that way, I couldn't quit. I got into bad habits and into sins that I was helpless to stop on my own. I honestly do not know how I would have reacted if I'd been told I was going to be disfellowshipped. That's the thing, we never do know how one will react to this. Some use it to finally wakeup and get themselves back to following Jesus, others just walk away sulking. Not sure what is the right thing to do. I would hope that they really pray about this before they make that decission. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Renewed_faith Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 God is disappointed in no one. He never gives up on anyone. You are a work in progress. Do not put yourself down in God's eyes. I don't think it is good. Keep your chin up! Quote
Moderators John317 Posted January 17, 2010 Moderators Posted January 17, 2010 No, disfellowshipping should not be viewed as saying goodbye. On the contrary, it should be like a "wake-up call." It should also be part of the attempt by the church to help people understand their spiritual danger and do something about it. There are all kinds of SDAs, as in all denominations. You will find some who live their faith 24/7 and some who really don't live as a Christian at all. The church is far from perfect. It has both wheat and weeds in it, which is the way God planned. The net of the gospel is thrown out and it catches both good and bad. Only God alone knows the differences. We can go by actions and words, but people are often be wrong. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Woody Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 Yes John. You do bring up an interesting point ... The wheat and the tares are to grow TOGETHER till the Harvest. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 God is disappointed in no one. He never gives up on anyone. You are a work in progress. Do not put yourself down in God's eyes. I don't think it is good. Keep your chin up! Yes. We can't compare ourselves to others and their situations. We all have a different walk with different circumstances. One person's walk may be much more challenging and difficult than another. And each person can glorify God in different yet simple ways. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members phkrause Posted January 17, 2010 Members Posted January 17, 2010 God is disappointed in no one. He never gives up on anyone. You are a work in progress. Do not put yourself down in God's eyes. I don't think it is good. Keep your chin up! Good post Renewed-faith. Even if one is disfellowshiped we as a church should not give up on that individual as well. This is a time that that member needs us more. And like you've said God will not give up on them at all. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators John317 Posted January 17, 2010 Moderators Posted January 17, 2010 I sometimes wish I was dead. My faith in God is so weak and I can't go to church because I'm too frightened. I don't go visiting people. I don't read my Bible, except maybe Psalms...the NT confuses me. I think I'm a big disappointment to God. WEll, Pam, it's great that you're here on Adventist Club. You can consider it your church for now anyway. I know it's hard to comprehend this but the truth is that if you're truly trusting in Christ, God sees you as if you had lived the righteous life of Christ Himself. He loves you the same as He does His Son. In the mind of God, you are already sitting with Christ in heavenly places. We just have to see ourselves in that position and understand that THAT is the real reality. See Eph. 2: 5-10. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 17, 2010 Members Posted January 17, 2010 I guess I *do* consider this to be my church for now. It's hard, though, to see the quarreling that goes on here. It makes me want to scream sometimes. And it makes me feel like an outcast at other times because people talk about things that I have no clue about. I'm not in to "church-speak"...or Bible thumping. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Moderators John317 Posted January 17, 2010 Moderators Posted January 17, 2010 Yes John. You do bring up an interesting point ... The wheat and the tares are to grow TOGETHER till the Harvest. Indeed. And the reason that we have to be very careful not to "judge" who is a wheat and who is a tare is that we can't read hearts and minds, and many tares turn out to be wheat, whereas some wheat will turn out to be tares. Changes are taking place all the time. By the way, unlike some churches, SDAs don't disfellowship members as a judgment that they are lost. It's not a statement that someone is a tare or that God doesn't love him or her. In one religious group that I know of, disfellowshipping is pretty harsh and unloving. The rest of the congregation can't talk to you or associate with you at all in any way whatsoever, and this includes family members. They tell you you can come to meetings, but you can't talk, and you have to sit by yourself at the back of the building. I've forgotten the amount of time this goes on, but I believe it's at least a year. Then, if you demonstrate that you are sorry for your errors, and if the congregation is satisfied that you are repentant, you may earn the right to begin associating with other members again. But if members in good standing are seen associating with you or talking to you before that time is up, they will be warned and then if they keep it up, they also will be disciplined. This is very traumatic for these people because for the most part, all of their friends and loved one's are made to have nothing to do with them. It's like being cut off from everything and everyone they value and love. I do know from experience that many ex-members come back to this religious group, so from the groups viewpoint, their system seems to work pretty well. However, many do not come back, but then it's impossible to determine whether their refusal to come back is due in any way to their system of disfellowshipping. On a last note, this religious group teaches that if you're disfellowshipped, and you never repent, your spiritual future will be very bleak. You may not be resurrected and given a chance to be saved during the 1000 years of Christ's reign, and you are likely to die a painful death during Armageddon, which could happen at almost any time. In any case, I'm glad we don't do it that way, it seems so heartless and cold. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members phkrause Posted January 17, 2010 Members Posted January 17, 2010 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs I sometimes wish I was dead. My faith in God is so weak and I can't go to church because I'm too frightened. I don't go visiting people. I don't read my Bible, except maybe Psalms...the NT confuses me. I think I'm a big disappointment to God. WEll, Pam, it's great that you're here on Adventist Club. You can consider it your church for now anyway. I know it's hard to comprehend this but the truth is that if you're truly trusting in Christ, God sees you as if you had lived the righteous life of Christ Himself. He loves you the same as He does His Son. In the mind of God, you are already sitting with Christ in heavenly places. We just have to see ourselves in that position and understand that THAT is the real reality. See Eph. 2: 5-10. Excellent post John, and rudywoofs this is really good advice. There used to be a time that I didn't want to go to church because there were a few members I didn't like. I finally said to myself "hey these people are not going to force me to do what they want", so I'd just walk right past them and say good sabbath. I go to church for myself and to be where I know christ is. So if these members don't like it, I say to bad and live with it. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators Gerr Posted January 17, 2010 Moderators Posted January 17, 2010 I guess I should have been disfellowshipped. Maybe I should be now because I'm certainly not doing a very good job of being a good SDA Christian. Please see John's comment which I heartily endorse. And yes, it's unfortunate that there are leaders who have/do wrong and not even gotten a slap on the wrist. Besides, Pam, I have no idea what you had done and don't want to know, and what attitude you had when/if you were approached by the members that cared. If erring members are just booted out without trying to restore them first, then something is very wrong. Discipline is not about punishment; it is about restoration. See Gal 6:1,2. Quote
Renewed_faith Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 My mother in law was part of that religion. She was disfellowshipped from the church and family. I won't go into the details of it, however, it was very traumatic for her. Quote
Woody Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 Problem is Gerry ... we ALL willfully sin and continue to sin. Sin is Sin as our prophet puts it. And if you commit one sin you are just as guilty as if you commmit all sins. So, if you think I am unworthy of membership ... then none are worthy of membership. We ALL sin. None have stopped. Even in our thoughts we sin. For sure ... I'm not going to sit in judgment of another sinner. They would have to kick me out first. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 17, 2010 Members Posted January 17, 2010 When I was out of the church for 24 years, there was not a single time when a member of the church, pastor or otherwise, came to see me. I was a non-entity. I don't know what I would have done if someone *had* stopped by to see me. I have a panic disorder now that prevents me from being around people for very long. It can get very lonely to be by oneself. Ironically the panic disorder stems from PTSD from spiritual abuse at my last job where my boss/administrator was an SDA pastor-turned-entrepreneur. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Woody Posted January 17, 2010 Posted January 17, 2010 Were you still on the books? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 17, 2010 Members Posted January 17, 2010 absolutely...my mom was church clerk Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Woody Posted January 18, 2010 Posted January 18, 2010 Why didn't your mom suggest to the pastor that he visit you? Or did she? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted January 18, 2010 Moderators Posted January 18, 2010 ...we ALL willfully sin and continue to sin. Sin is Sin as our prophet puts it. And if you commit one sin you are just as guilty as if you commmit all sins. So, if you think I am unworthy of membership ... then none are worthy of membership. We ALL sin. None have stopped. Even in our thoughts we sin. Same ol' same ol'. It's true that everyone without exception is in desperate need of God's unmerited favor. None of us deserves God's love or salvation. But both the Scriptures and Ellen White's writings show that God does not view all sin in the same way. All sin is to be taken seriously, though, and any cherished, unconfessed sin will keep us out of heaven because by holding on to it, we are making it more important in our life than Jesus. See the Bible and SOP evidence on post #323121. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 18, 2010 Members Posted January 18, 2010 Egads, my mom would never suggest to a pastor that he visit me. That's a private issue and one I don't want to get into. Suffice it to say, I am not kindly disposed towards pastors in general. There's only one that I even trust, and that's the one who gives me Bible studies. He's not a regular pastor - he's retired and owns his own counseling business. But he makes room for me every week for Bible study. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Members phkrause Posted January 18, 2010 Members Posted January 18, 2010 Egads, my mom would never suggest to a pastor that he visit me. That's a private issue and one I don't want to get into. Suffice it to say, I am not kindly disposed towards pastors in general. There's only one that I even trust, and that's the one who gives me Bible studies. He's not a regular pastor - he's retired and owns his own counseling business. But he makes room for me every week for Bible study. Praise the Lord for this saint. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
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