disfellowshiping members

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: olger

If I have to explain it, then it's definitely not worth explaining. Sheesh..

g

Thank you for that illuminating response.

I guess Pam ... that if one has nothing worth saying ... they say nothing. Actually I wish that more would follow this example.

[aldona]

I second that why.

because then the denomination can breathe a sigh of relief, wash their hands and say "He's not one of US! We have nothing to do with him! He is in no way representative of our teachings! We have no responsibility for anything that happens from this point onwards, to him or his followers!"

So much more comfortable, fewer difficult explanations to folks who ask difficult questions, no need to concern ourselves with wondering how it all came about and what other cult-like elements may be lurking around the fringes of our religion, or how to stop it happening again in the future, or how to minister to the friends and families of those left behind (many of whom are still SDA).

Just my $0.02 worth.

aldona

[Paula]

Disfellowship is quite common in SDA churches that are not American. Spanish, Brazilian, etc... It is very common to have a few people (3-10) disfellowshipped, or "disciplined" a couple times per year.

Mostly its teens. Either because they went to the pastor and confessed to having had premarital sex, or someone shows up pregnant, etc. Also common for those caught or turned in for going to clubs, dancing, or drinking, etc... So most of the people disciplined are teens. Also, for divorce/remarriage without biblical grounds, as well as for working on the Sabbath. I've actually witnessed quite a few church business meetins for people being dischiplined/disfellowshipped. And in full disclosure, I was disciplined for months at the age of 19. My then fiance and I (now my husband) did not wait until marriage, and we were brought before the whole church to be punished (we went to the pastor when it happened, confessed, turned in our positions, I was a youth leader, he was a music leader), then we went through a board meeting, and finally a church meeting, to a packed house. It was a bit annoying since I knew of several other people who were leaders and having the same problem, but was told that since they didn't confess, and had in fact denied it (though everyone knew about it), nothing would be done. We never left the church however. And honestly, I can't think of anyone else who did. So I guess, in latin cultures at least, people accept it and stay.

[olger]

Good for you Paula. We need people like you guys.

As to Koresh, it should be plain enough to sensible people. The news media just lives for situations like that. As a well-known evangelist said, "Had Koresh still been a member of the Adventist church, that would have done more harm to our movement than can be repaired in 25-years." It would have dealt Adventist evangelism a huge blow. That we could say that we disfellowshipped the man, effectively neutered a blood-loving anti-god media. I for one am grateful for the wisdom of those who disfellowshiped Koresh. But I'm just a convert who is grateful for the beautiful truths of the Adventist Message, and have no aminus towards the remnant...

`oG

[olger]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

I second that why.

because then the denomination can breathe a sigh of relief, wash their hands and say "He's not one of US! We have nothing to do with him! He is in no way representative of our teachings! We have no responsibility for anything that happens from this point onwards, to him or his followers!"

So much more comfortable, fewer difficult explanations to folks who ask difficult questions, no need to concern ourselves with wondering how it all came about and what other cult-like elements may be lurking around the fringes of our religion, or how to stop it happening again in the future, or how to minister to the friends and families of those left behind (many of whom are still SDA).

Just my $0.02 worth.

aldona

Durn tootin, Sister `dona.

That was a right good move that the Brethren made.

from scratch,

og

[Woody]

Thank you Paula for your testimony. Please tell us more. How do you feel about it. Was it redemptive and helpful to you? Would you recommend it and go through it again if necessary? Do you have any suggestions of alterations with what was done? Or would you just trash it altogether?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

and have no aminus towards the remnant...

oG, did you mean "animus"?

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Olger

and have no aminus towards the remnant...

oG, did you mean "animus"?

Rudywoofs ... amines are well known to the chemical community.

Apparently og is far more educated than we might have otherwise suspected.

a·mine (ə-mēn', ām'ēn)

n. Any of a group of organic compounds of nitrogen, such as ethylamine, C2H5NH2, that may be considered ammonia derivatives in which one or more hydrogen atoms have been replaced by a hydrocarbon radical.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Hmm. I did know about the amines, but wasn't sure about the context of having ammonia disfellowshipped from the church. You could be right...

[SivartM]

I personally don't think we should have ammonia in our churches. So I'd go for disfellowshiping it.

[Woody]

I personally don't think we should have ammonia in our churches. So I'd go for disfellowshiping it.

Yes. This is one time I am in favor of what both you and Olger are promoting. I do think disfellowshipping Ammonia is a good idea.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

I personally don't think we should have ammonia in our churches. So I'd go for disfellowshiping it.

Yes. This is one time I am in favor of what both you and Olger are promoting. I do think disfellowshipping Ammonia is a good idea.

But what about those members who might faint in church? Ammonia would be very helpful in bringing them to their senses.

Perhaps instead of disfellowshipping, we should use ammonia on people.

[Woody]

I think Pam that some are so far out of their senses that even Ammonia will not faze them.

[Renewed_faith]

Ammonia mixed with windshield washer fluid makes for GREAT bug and degreaser.. I use it in my car all the time!

It's an old truckers window washer fluid to get the road grease off their windshields.

:)

[Woody]

Good suggestion Renewed Faith. So, let's keep Ammonia on the books for now.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I just found out that the Oregon Conference does not use "disfellowshipping" or "apostasy" as a reason for dropping someone's name from the church records. The only reason to be given is "name dropped"... This was done after someone's name was dropped and the reason had been listed as "apostasy." "Someone" went in to talk to the Conference President about that because she thought "apostasy" was judgmental, and ever since then, none of the church records have "apostasy" or "disfellowshipped" as a reason for someone's name being dropped.