What is meant by ...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

One of the problems I see is that not everything that Jesus said or did was recorded by Matthew, Mark, or John. So how can you know that Jesus did not have an encounter with Saul (aka Paul) at some point? What if He did, and Jesus' words came back to Paul via the Holy Spirit and he wrote his letters to the various churches under the guidance of the Holy Spirit?

[Dr. Rich]

Well Pam, What if the earth was flat too? Many people believed this at one time. Saul was a murderer! He said so himself. Jesus did not hang out with people who murdered people. Since when did God EVER choose someone evil to become His servant?

[Guest]

When he chose Saul, and made a complete change in him. Even his name. Paul was not a murderer. In fact he was more of an eye witness than the rest of the disciples. God came to him in such glory that it blinded him.

He explained more things to Paul Too. Which is why he was responsible for more spreading of the gospel than all the rest of them put together.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

He chose Nebuchadnezzar. He chose David, a murderer. He chose Matthew, a tax collector.

It was just a thought.

[Guest]

He had to change everybody He chose. Nobody came to God perfect, and said here I am. Moses was a murderer.

[phkrause]

He chose Nebuchadnezzar. He chose David, a murderer. He chose Matthew, a tax collector.

It was just a thought.

Good points Pam.

pk

[Dr. Rich]

Ha Ha Ha, you are soo funny Richard! I really needed that laugh! David and Moses were righteousness before God worked with them. Neb was not chosen as a servant for God. Like I said before and I will again, God NEVER chose AND FORCED a completely evil man filled with a demons to become His servant. Nope, it didn't happen and that type of thing is not in the nature of God. Some day soon we all will see the truth in regards to Paul's gospel verses the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus came here to testify to.

[Guest]

Rich, you should spend more time reading the Bible, instead of those fairy tale books you put so much faith in. Moses murdered a man before God ever did anything with him. It was forty years after that when God started using him. And just so you know, no man is righteous before God works with them.

[Guest]

First you said God never used a murderer. Now he's got to be completely evil and filled with demons huh? LOL

You're changing the qualifications as you go. You crack me up.

[oldsailor29]

He chose Nebuchadnezzar. He chose David, a murderer. He chose Matthew, a tax collector.

It was just a thought.

Matthew also owned a public house, where a person could go and have a meal and drink adult beverages, and pay taxes. This is why tax collectors were called publicans. Drunks who were not collectors were also called publicans. This is where Jesus called upon Matthew to be one of His disciples. His other disciples were with Him, as were some other publicans and sinners. The pharisees were watching from another area of he pub, fretting that Jesus associated with all those drunks and whores. When Jesus heard what they were saying, He told them that He came to bring salvation to sinners and not to the righteous. Then He said something else, the meaning of which I am sure will be revealed as a great truth someday. I have heard and read explanations and interpretations, but none seem exactly to fit the statement, which was "I will have mercy, and not sacrifice."

[oldsailor29]

I think sanctification of the spirit means that the Holy Spirit dwells within us. A by-product of this relationship is character improvement, which is also known as sanctification.

[teresaq]

No, the whole bible is NOT hearsay evidence because of the chain of evidence has not been broken between what Jesus said and His eyewitnesses who wrote it down. It has to do with the chain of evidence and it appears that you don't understand the evidence rules.

who made up these rules, and who says they have to be heeded?

[Guest]

Good question.

[Dr. Rich]

If I was investigating a crime scene at your home and saw some evidence and picked it up and put it into my pocket, went home and my wife then went thru the pockets to wash the pants-and then put the evidence on a table and we had many people around the table, then the chain of evidence had been broken and you could not use the evidence in court to prove anything. There is a real reason why one must make sure that the words of Jesus came from His eyewitnesses ONLY.

But then you don't care about this, so what I said about believing others who say they are OF Christ (like Benny Hinn) but speak words (just say him last night) saying that God just told him such and such-then I suppose it just does not matter to you.

I have been listening to many preachers on the radio and TV lately and many of them have thousands following after them because they say they are OF Jesus Christ and that Jesus is actually talking to them. Wow--how sad is this! Can't people open their eyes and see that is exactly what Joseph Smith and EGW did? What are you going to do when Satan himself impersonates Jesus?

This morning I watched Joseph Prince on TV who was preaching to a full stadium. He was telling them that God actually made a mistake by giving the law to Israel because they could not keep this law. therefore God sent His Son to do away with this law so that we all will be saved by God's good grace because we don't need to love Him, because He loves us! We don't even need to know about anything Jesus commanded us to know--just believe! Just believe you are saved and you will be saved. (This is what Joseph Prince was saying this morning on TV) Man, give me a break!

[Guest]

What makes you any different from the tv preachers? You're saying that Jesus has shown you something that nobody else knows. And just like them, it's not in the Bible. So why should we listen to you?

If they speak not according to this word, there is no light in them. That's you.

[teresaq]

It has to do with the chain of evidence and it appears that you don't understand the evidence rules.

[Dr. Rich]

WHAT? Man, what have you been smoken'?(just kidding) God has never talked to me that I know of. And the only thing that I am presenting is the same thing that Jesus said. I am just a repeater of what the eyewitnesses wrote down. I thought you agreed with this? You did at one time I know. Now you are saying that I am preaching a different message than what Jesus did? How dare you say this! Please, refrain from this because everything that Jesus said can be found in the bible! I am truly sorry you are so mixed up, but some day I pray you will 'get it'.

[Guest]

All of what Jesus said is in the Bible. But most of what you say is not in the Bible. Like when you tell people they don't need faith or grace. Jesus never said this, In fact he says just the opposite, as I have shown you many times.

You say EGW was inspired by the devil, but that this is still God's church. Show me one time where God allowed his people to be led by a false prophet. God has always shown His people what to expect. So show me the warning that says his people are going to be led by a false prophet for over a century. You can't because it isn't there.

Ellen White did tell us about your type coming along though. About a hundred years before you were born.

[Dr. Rich]

Hooboy! If you want to get what I said right, then do it. I NEVER said we do not need faith, for we ALL start out with faith. Those that die before finding the whole truth are saved by grace. So please, stop it! I did say that I could not find where Jesus said anything about righteousness by faith and that we are saved by grace alone.

You presented lots of places Jesus said something about faith and this is good. I have no argument with that. My argument is focused upon what people have come to believe that Jesus did away with the law so that faith has now replaced obedience of God's word with many of the denominations and Adventists are starting to lean in that direction and I believe it is a false teaching--one that the mother church got from the writings of Paul. They don't want to have a law to follow, so they have come to the conclusion that Paul said the law was done away with.

Now I thought you agreed with this at one time--didn't you?

As for EGW-I just don't give a whim about what she said anymore--why should I? If she lied about the 'shut door policy' then why should I believe anything she said?

[doug yowell]

Dr. Rich, you're being disingenuous.Dr. Luke claimed that HE was also just repeating what the eyewitnesses of Jesus had related to him and you reject his historical account.And you're asking us to believe you and not him??? If you don't accept Luke's accuracy, why should we accept yours?Particularly, if God has never talked to you?

[Dr. Rich]

Luke was a follower of Paul, not of Jesus or any of His disciples. Personally, I like Luke and find his writing easy to understand. Problem is, there are stories and words that do not agree with the real eyewitnesses words. I guess you didn't understand that I had said that IF anything did NOT agree with what the eyewitnesses wrote down, then go with the eyewitnesses first and foremost. It has been suggested that I have thrown out Luke's account and Paul's account. No, I have not thrown them out at all, just as I have not thrown out other writings that never made it into the bible. I have and still am investigating.

However, do you believe that Jesus didn't present everything we need, in the words of His eyewitnesses, to understand for our salvation?

That's the difference. I believe that Jesus did give us everything we need to know in Matthew and John's writings. Is this bad? I don't think so.

[Guest]

Quote:

Now I thought you agreed with this at one time--didn't you?

I have never agreed that Paul said the law was done away with. Because he didn't. You along with the majority of sunday keepers are the only ones who believe this.

[teresaq]

If she lied about the 'shut door policy' then why should I believe anything she said?

you dont accept the "shut door" of revelation?

Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; ... he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

[Dr. Rich]

Sorry teresaq, I didn't realize I had to present EGW's whole vision about the shut door to anyone here because I thought most have investigated it for themselves. She said she had a vision from God that showed her that only those who were on the road with them (AT THAT TIME) would be saved and that time was over for allowing anyone else to come in (be saved). In fact, Elferd Lee, a well known SDA artist, painted the picture as a mural on the wall at the GC on this vision. I know this, because my wife and I were used as models and were painted as being on this road.

But even those at the GC know that this vision was not the truth. Yes, they know she was wrong, but they still "tolerate the woman" (see Rev. 2:20)

To believe in EGW, one must believe that Jesus could come at any time. I have asked many teachers, preachers and leaders in a private meeting what they personally thought about this and almost all of them admitted that what she taught on this was wrong. Most agree that there are many things that first must take place before Jesus can come. If anyone actually believes that Jesus could come tomorrow, then they have not bothered to read about all of the events that must take place before Jesus comes in the clouds.

[wayfinder]

Revelation 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write : He who is holy, who is true, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, and who shuts and no one opens, says this :

8 'I know your deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut, because you have a little power, and have kept My word, and have not denied My name.

It looks like the door is open, not shut. The Son of God holds the key of David. The key of David is the key to the kingdom of God and since the door to the kingdom of God has not been shut yet, it must still be open. The door to the kingdom of God most certainly was not shut and locked in 1844.