What is meant by ...

[Musicman1228]

I just spoke with Rich. It does not look good for his son, Troy, who is on life support in a hospital in Denver. Rich has a flight out of Ontario CA in the morning at 5:30 AM. Please pray that the will of God will be done for Troy and for Rich.

[Guest]

You and others supply the definition of 'woman' as being the church, NOT Scripture. Eve was a woman, but she was not the church.

[Guest]

Do you know what the problem is with Rich's son?

[John317]

Quote:

Musicman1228:

John317,

Yes, I am sure of the word. I use MacSword (a derivative of E-Sword) which is an online Bible research resource. The version I use to for Greek and Hebrew derivations is the KJV.

Yes, but do you realize that you said Mooth is a Greek word whereas it is actually Hebrew? If your machine said it is a Greek word, you need a new machine. lol

To understand how to translate, one needs to know more than how to bring up words on the MacSword. Good translation work is far from a mechanical process.

How a word is to be translated depends to a large degree on context, particularly in translating the Hebrew, which is a very concrete language, unlike Greek.

Another important point is that when you find that ALL translations agree in the way they translate a word or a phrase-- such as they do in Ge. 2: 17-- you have to believe there's a really good reason for it. You can't assume that because a Hebrew dictionary gives you the definiton of the word as "the execution of the offender," this is the way it should be translated. All the dictionary is saying is that once they ate the fruit, they were doomed to die-- doomed in the same way that a man is doomed when he receives a sentence of death. It doesn't mean God would literally execute them. It's saying that once Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, his death was as certain as if he had been sentenced to death. And in fact the Bible shows Adam to have been sentenced to death by God, in Gen. 3: 19.

Quote:

Musicman1228: One of the traditional understandings about the Creation is that God created man as immortal beings, but this is an erroneous assumption. We know that God put the Tree of Life in the Garden for the benefit of Adam and Eve; if they obeyed God they would be able to eat of the tree and live forever. This means that without the tree they would die (which is different than being killed).

Sure, that is what SDAs believe, as I'm sure you realize. They were created conditionally immortal. No SDA beleives that mankind was made immortal.

Quote:

Musicman1228: By extrapolation we can see that those outside of the Garden (the inhabitants of Nun for example-where Cain went after He was sent out from the presence of the Lord) did not have access to the Tree at any time. Therefore, when God created mankind (and yes, that is 'mankind as a species') He created them mortal, just like all the other creatures He created during the six day creation.

I know you've mentioned this before, but I don't see convincing evidence for it.

I'm wondering why this teaching is of importance to you and Wayfinder and Dr. Rich.

Can you give me a "walk-through" of the Scriptures and show how you arrive at these conclusions? Show me the texts and also your reasoning in the Scriptures.

[Musicman1228]

I misspoke. Muwth is a Hebrew word, not Greek. Sorry for the confusion.

Richard,

Rich's son is an alcoholic and has been in and out of rehab for years. He just came out of another short program 3 days ago, and they were in the process of trying to find him a long term live in program when he attempted suicide by pills. It is so tragic, because Rich has tried and tried to see his son through this problem, and every time he thinks his son has it controlled his son goes off the wagon.

Satan will try to get to each of us any way he can, either by direct personal attack or by indirect attack through our family. Satan will leave you alone if you are not a direct threat to his kingdom of darkness; which is why evil people seem to have such an easy time of it. When you declare yourself the enemy of Satan, and demonstrate it by your actions against him, he will do anything and everything in his power to overcome your will against him by every means possible, including attacking your family. I think this is what happened to Rich, as his son was an easy target.

Last night I reminded Rich of this and he declared to Satan (while on the phone with me) that nothing that Satan did to either him personally or to his family would keep him from working for the Kingdom of Heaven. It was an incredibly strong and brave statement to the angel of the Abyss, that he (Rich) would not be moved from the truth for any reason.

I pray that we all use this as an example of the type of bravery we will need in the face of the enemy; our willingness to sacrifice ALL for Truth and for Jesus Christ.

[Guest]

Yes, Rich sent me an e-mail last night and again today while he was at the airport. He explained everything to me. But thanks for the info.

I am a sober alcoholic myself.

[phkrause]

By the way, please pray for Rich. His son was taken to the emergency room this evening. I don't have anymore info than that, but it is serious and needs our prayers.

Will keep Dr. Rich and family in our prays, thanks for the info MM.

pk

[Musicman1228]

Rich called me just a few minutes ago to tell me that his son is partially awake. The Drs are going to take the breathing equipment out a little later and see how he does. Miracles do still happen.

[Guest]

That's good MM.

[Aliensanctuary]

Rev 17:18.

Quote:

"The woman you saw is the great city which has authority over all the rulers on earth."

This city, "Babylon", arrives from space during the End of Days, and because humans are basically defenseless against the technology, it soon conquers the WHOLE earth. Only those who have made the effort to become holy to the LORD, that is, "sanctified", will know enough to stay away from the city and its religion of pleasure-seeking. Unfortunately, they will be hunted down and killed as enemies of the state because they just kept going on and on about the 3 Angel's Messages. They wouldn't shut up and stop warning the people, so they had to be killed for the sake of peace.

[Guest]

Wow, really?

[wayfinder]

I thought my understanding was out of this world, this one really is, quite literally. I thought that saying it was Jerusalem was provocative.

[Dr. Rich]

I just came from the hospital and our prayers have been answered. My son, some how, came out of it without much damage other than the liver. He wondered why he did not die because he planned it so well and took enough to do it. My daughter came home 2 hours early and found him but he had thrown up, which probably saved him, and when they pumped out his stomach they got lots of the pills that had not been dissolved for some reason.

I gave him the book called "The Shack" and he is now reading that. I prayed that he would be given a second chance and so did you and our church family and friends, and the prayers were answered! God is soooo good! Thanks to all of you!

He is still not out of the woods and I will be with him until he gets placed in a safe place. We are now looking for someplace where he could go for a year or so. I know that many of you also have family and friends that go through this and my heart breaks for all of you. It would be wonderful if we could force the manufactures of alcohol to fund treatment centers and perhaps I will attempt to do so. Thanks again for all of your prayers.

Dr. Rich

[Musicman1228]

It could be that when Satan and his demons are released from the abyss during the 5th Trumpet (this has not yet happened) that they will appear as beings from another planet in some kind of flying craft, I just don't know. I do know that the 'great city' that rules over the whole world is Jerusalem, 'where also their Lord was crucified'. Yes, there will be martyrs during the Great Tribulation, and they will be killed for their testimony (the gospel of the Kingdom). They, as with the Two Witnesses of Rev. 11, will be killed only after they have accomplished the task that was set before them by God. They will be killed by both the first and the second beast of Rev.13 - the 'one world' government that rules with the power and authority given it by Satan (base in religious practice, hence the blasphemous names) and by Satan himself during the last 5 months of the reign of the kingdom of the world on earth (before the 7th Trumpet sounds).

[Aliensanctuary]

Perhaps the city from space is attacked and overrun by evil forces, then transformed from a holy city into a harlot which promotes only wicked pleasures. The city is shot down, plunging into the sea, as Rev 18:21 describes:

Rev 18:21

Quote:

Then a powerful angel picked up a boulder like a great millstone, and as he hurled it into the sea, he said, "That is how the great city of Babylon is going to be hurled down, never to be seen again.

In several places in the OT, a city is referred to as a daughter: Daughter of Zion refers to Jerusalem, for example. So we could surmise that the two women, the pure and the defiled, in Rev, also refer to cities. The New Jerusalem, a huge starship city descending from space, is described as a bride, that is, female:

Rev 21:2

Quote:

I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of [space] from God, prepared as a bride dressed for her husband.

Where does woman=church come from?

Prophetic imagery can be so difficult to understand that we shouldn't be too critical of out-of-the-box thinking. Our entrenched religious beliefs can anesthetize us to the point of missing the point.

[Guest]

Perhaps the city from space is attacked and overrun by evil forces, then transformed from a holy city into a harlot which promotes only wicked pleasures. The city is shot down, plunging into the sea, as Rev 18:21 describes:

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

Perhaps the city from space is attacked and overrun by evil forces, then transformed from a holy city into a harlot which promotes only wicked pleasures.

Let me make it a little plainer.

The above references Rev 12, the Woman and the Dragon. It was just an idea, and was not referring to the New Jerusalem which arrives on the scene much later according to Rev 21.

As far as Babylon being a symbol of an apostate church, Rev 18 states something different:

Rev 18:10

Quote:

...while they keep at a safe distance through fear of her anguish. They will say:

Mourn, mourn for this great city,

Babylon, so powerful a city,

in one short hour your doom has come upon you.

Perhaps to some, a day isn't really a day because it's a one-year long prophetic day, and, a city is not really a city because it's a religion.

Babylon is just another starship city, only it's run by the bad guys. They are coming to our planet to stock up with merchandise and slaves. Unfortunately for its passengers and crew, the city is blasted out of the sky before departure. Maybe they were planning to skip town without paying the bill.

The 3 Angels will broadcast their message to the entire planet after Babylon falls, according to Rev 14.

This subject really belongs in another location, so back to the topic at hand...

If we exercise due diligence in blocking evil thoughts and actions from our lives, the Spirit will give us what we need to become worthy servants of the LORD. When we no longer harbor the Virus of Evil, then we become holy, or sanctified. This may not occur until the Last Days.

[Guest]

If we exercise due diligence in blocking evil thoughts and actions from our lives, the Spirit will give us what we need to become worthy servants of the LORD. When we no longer harbor the Virus of Evil, then we become holy, or sanctified. This may not occur until the Last Days.

[WayneV]

Dr. Rich,

Praise the Lord for your son's recovery. I also pray that your son will take advantage of the grace God has provided. The Shack is a great starting point. It might be good to also give him a copy of The Message. Eugene Peterson has done a good job of displaying the agape`o of God in understandable western English vernacular. I will continue to pray for your son's complete restoration in relationship to God.

Agape`

[John317]

Rich called me just a few minutes ago to tell me that his son is partially awake. The Drs are going to take the breathing equipment out a little later and see how he does. Miracles do still happen.

Wonderful to hear, Musicman. God is still a miracle-working God who answers prayers.

I have a grandson who needs urgent prayer at this time. I just found out about it. It doesn't look good and without a miracle from God it doesn't look like he'll make it. His name is Samuel and he is only 4.

[Dr. Rich]

John 317, I am praying for your grandson, and I will tell you that all of your prayers were answered even though my son is still not yet out of the woods. It will take time to heal, but the most important thing is he has a second chance to save his soul. Life is sooo precious and we all need to lean on each other during these last few years of this world. No matter what the differences we have now, it is clear that all of us trust God and will do what it takes to help others in an ever growing evil world.

Lord, not for our sake, but for Your sake and in Jesus name, I am asking You to look over Samuel and heal him and comfort his family. AMEN!

[Guest]

AMEN!

[olger]

Amen.

[phkrause]

Dr. Rich, Praise the Lord that your son has survived this ordeal. Am praying that all will still go well.

pk

[Dr. Rich]

Thanks PK and everyone who prayed for my son--for your prayers have been answered. I just left his hospital room and the medical personal are really surprised how well he is doing, and even that he survived at all! The hospital is the new St. Francis in Colorado Springs and what a wonderful place and wonderful people who work there! Praise God for all He does for us and most of the time we don't even realize it.