Do you go out to eat...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Personally ... I don't care if someone else works on Sabbath. That is their choice. I don't go out to eat on Sabbath for one reason and one reason only. I don't like the atmosphere. It is not conducive to my worship of God during the 24 hour period of Sabbath. Now ... some people may feel that it is better than doing all the work surrounding meal prep etc. And that is fine. I don't find any fault in that line of thinking. But it just doesn't work for me. Some of my best Sabbath memories are of those times when we invite a Church visitor to our home for lunch at the last minute when we were not 'prepared'.

I kind of agree with Woody, but for different reasons. I can't get it around my head that going out to eat and thus requiring someone else to serve me for pay is a Sabbath option. I used to work in a hospital every weekend, and that didn't bother me a bit because I was doing something that helped people. I can't see myself doing a job that wasn't healthcare related on the Sabbath.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

This thread is bordering on the ridiculous.

Not to me.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Hehe. Alex, like I said, we DO go out to eat on the Sabbath. But still...

It's awfully hard for me to tell my employer that I can't work on the Sabbath, but I can show up in his restaurant to have him wait on me. Sort of a double-standard, you know? He doesn't want to close down shop because there's money to be made from us Adventists who can't cook their own meals on the Sabbath, and he doesn't want to keep me on as an employee when he could hire someone who's willing to work on the Sabbaths instead.

By going out to eat on the Sabbath, I'm "eating" myself out of a job every other day of the week.

So how do you work that double standard around in your mind, Aubrey?

[Outta Here]

Honestly, Rudywoofs, I don't. It weighs on my mind and heart every single time we do go out on the Sabbath. In short, I feel as if I'm digging my own grave. I know I'm a hypocrite.

[Outta Here]

What are you saying, dgrimm60? Sometimes I don't understand your posts. I am the one who said it was a double standard in the first place. I just don't understand what you're trying to say.

Are you posting merely for the sake of increasing your post count?

[Outta Here]

Hmm. You've made a false assumption based on a post I made earlier. I do not work at a restaurant. I was speaking as if I did work at a restaurant...trying to make a point about the many ways our actions affect those around us. Clearly, the point I was trying to make wasn't made.

[Aliensanctuary]

We can all make lists of do's and don'ts for the Sabbath, some quite long and detailed, and no two lists will be exactly the same. We can compare our Sabbath lists with other's Sabbath behaviors and think they may be violating the Day of Rest by working or pleasure seeking or shopping or eating out, but this is really a private matter between individuals and the LORD. If we start nit-picking, all we will end up with is a bag of worthless nits. Maybe some people like nits and have mounted collections on display, but if we do have a lot of nits, we should be embarrassed, not proud, of our nit-picking skills.

The main point of a Day of Rest here on Earth is to point to the Day of Rest in the next life. In the future, we will work six days, and rest every seventh. Of course, there will be special feasts and holidays to punctuate the year, too. We will then have a much better idea what to do on the Day of Rest than we do here, since I doubt there will be automobiles or restaurants or shopping centers or entertainments to divert our attention from spiritual matters. I suspect everyone will appreciate the Day of Rest so much that they will focus mainly on rest and fostering enduring friendships, and of course, learning how to conduct ourselves in the Kingdom.

We can load our weapons of mass destruction and blast away at Sabbath-breakers and other sinners, but in the end, we may be worse off when we face trial on Judgment Day than all of those wicked people we wounded or killed or condemned. Today, the Sabbath is muddied up because we don't know what to do. When the Real Sabbath comes, it will be a great delight to conduct ourselves as the LORD instructs us.

Remember Korah, Dathan, and Abiram? We should take warning from their fate as a result of their willing disobedience. The LORD loves those who wish to please him and honor him, but there is no room in his Kingdom for those who don't. That's our main job, really, as we live out our lives on this side of the Millennium, to love, honor, and obey our Master.

[Woody]

Quote:

For clarification purposes, my post #338123 is FICTICIOUS.

This is really confusing me now. Are you writing fictious posts? And if so ... are there more that are fictious?

[doug yowell]

We can all make lists of do's and don'ts for the Sabbath, some quite long and detailed, and no two lists will be exactly the same. We can compare our Sabbath lists with other's Sabbath behaviors and think they may be violating the Day of Rest by working or pleasure seeking or shopping or eating out, but this is really a private matter between individuals and the LORD. If we start nit-picking, all we will end up with is a bag of worthless nits. Maybe some people like nits and have mounted collections on display, but if we do have a lot of nits, we should be embarrassed, not proud, of our nit-picking skills.

The main point of a Day of Rest here on Earth is to point to the Day of Rest in the next life. In the future, we will work six days, and rest every seventh. Of course, there will be special feasts and holidays to punctuate the year, too. We will then have a much better idea what to do on the Day of Rest than we do here, since I doubt there will be automobiles or restaurants or shopping centers or entertainments to divert our attention from spiritual matters. I suspect everyone will appreciate the Day of Rest so much that they will focus mainly on rest and fostering enduring friendships, and of course, learning how to conduct ourselves in the Kingdom.

We can load our weapons of mass destruction and blast away at Sabbath-breakers and other sinners, but in the end, we may be worse off when we face trial on Judgment Day than all of those wicked people we wounded or killed or condemned. Today, the Sabbath is muddied up because we don't know what to do. When the Real Sabbath comes, it will be a great delight to conduct ourselves as the LORD instructs us.

Alien, I'm trying to follow your reasoning but I'm having a hard time.Doesn't the fourth commandment come with some do's and don'ts? Isn't the person who is "not under the law" supposed to be led by the Spirit to know how to please God in their Sabbath-keeping? Are you suggesting that Nehemiah might be worse off in the Judgment than those Sabbath-breakers(in his opinion)that he reproved? Are you implying that pleasure seeking,working,eating out, and shopping might actually be appropriate ways of keeping the Sabbath holy if one feels so inclined? A little clarity,please?

[Outta Here]

Quote:

For clarification purposes, my post #338123 is FICTITIOUS.

This is really confusing me now. Are you writing fictious posts? And if so ... are there more that are fictious?

LOL. You people are cracking me up! I do not work in a restaurant. I posted what I did as an example as to what might happen if I were to work in a restaurant. I should have made it clear in the first place. I tried to say as much later. But obviously, it's too confusing. For what it's worth, only that post was a fictitious example. My beliefs are not. (And anyone who's paid any attention to my previous posts on Club Adventist would know that I don't work in a restaurant.)

Not that anyone really cares in the first place.

So as not to confuse you or anyone else again:

I do not work in a restaurant.

I believe that dining out on the Sabbath is inappropriate.

I don't believe it will condemn a person eternally.

I dine in restaurants on occasion on the the Sabbath.

I am hypocrite.

And, I know it.

[TWNolan]

Remember Korah, Dathan, and Abiram?

Actually, i dont

[jasd]

QR frame:

The Seventh-day Sabbath was meant to be a delight/pleasure - that, seemingly, is why Writ does not advocate fasting upon the Seventh-day Sabbath. (disabuse me should I err) The proscriptions of the Fourth Commandment are not overlong and are very definitive. All else is as one is impressed - a very personal thing...

I notice that many follow the beliefs of the Jews re the Sabbath-day. That stated: I used to frequent a restaurant near the Greek Theater in Los Angeles - Saturdays lunch. That restaurant used to make its nut from the Jewish crowd alone - Saturdays after synagogue.

One hardly thought that there was such a thing as an Orthodox or Hasidic Jew in Los Angeles!

[phkrause]

I did get that impression Aubrey, that you did work at a restaurant, from that post! But thanks for clearly that up.

pk

[doug yowell]

I do not work in a restaurant.

I believe that dining out on the Sabbath is inappropriate.

I don't believe it will condemn a person eternally.

I dine in restaurants on occasion on the the Sabbath.

I am hypocrite.

And, I know it.

There went your tip.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I'm beginning to think I practiced better Sabbath keeping before I became an Adventist.

[Outta Here]

Originally Posted By: Aubrey

Out of curiosity, are either CoAspen or Alex sabbath-keepers? If so, why?

One way to attack a persons position is to question who they are, (SDA)questioning whether or not they have the right (sabbath-keeper)to comment on a topic. It may be on purpose or not..but it is a way of placing the person being asked the question of, in a suspicious light!!

I take no offense, just amused. No answer from me as it is a jump to something different, not on topic.

Ah, shucks, here is your answer, yep, and we eat out on Sabbath!!

You are correct, that is one way of attacking a person's position. If indeed this had been an attempt to attack you personally, an ad hominem attack, if you will, then you would be correct in assuming I was trying to attack you. However, this was not a personal attack on you or your beliefs, and if you assumed it was an ad hominem attack, then you are incorrect. You need not be a Sabbath-keeper to have a valid opinion on Sabbath-keeping. I asked out of curiosity because neither you, nor Alex seemed to understand my prior posts. I asked out of curiosity to know whether or not I was being clear, or if it was simply the case of you not being familiar with the practice (rather than just the idea) of keeping the Sabbath. Also, I was curious to know if you treasured the time God gifts to us or if it was "just another day" in your opinion. Your answers to those quesitons would have helped me to better understand your position and your view of my posts. It had nothing to do with attacking you personally.

My apologies if you thought otherwise. For what it's worth, while I am not amused by it, I, too, take no offense that you made an invalid assumption at what I was trying to do.

[GreatLakesGramma]

I can't get it around my head that going out to eat and thus requiring someone else to serve me for pay is a Sabbath option.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-12.

According to Exodus 20, you are correct, Pam. I guess it's a matter of whether someone believes that God's commandments, which we have been told are a transcript of His character and are eternal, still mean the same thing as they did when He spoke them Himself in the hearing of the nation of Israel at Sinai, then wrote them on stone with His own hand. It seems to me that if it didn't really matter so much to God how we keep the Sabbath, and especially if He was planning on making a change in it, then it was very arbitrary of Him to command that the man who was caught gathering wood on the Sabbath be put to death.

I'm not interested in serving a God like that. My God can be depended on to mean exactly what He says, not only in what He requires of us, but in every promise He has made to us. Neither is He lying when He tells us how much He loves us and is willing to do to save us.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

I can't get it around my head that going out to eat and thus requiring someone else to serve me for pay is a Sabbath option.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Exodus 20:8-12.

According to Exodus 20, you are correct, Pam. I guess it's a matter of whether someone believes that God's commandments, which we have been told are a transcript of His character and are eternal, still mean the same thing as they did when He spoke them Himself in the hearing of the nation of Israel at Sinai, then wrote them on stone with His own hand. It seems to me that if it didn't really matter so much to God how we keep the Sabbath, and especially if He was planning on making a change in it, then it was very arbitrary of Him to command that the man who was caught gathering wood on the Sabbath be put to death.

I'm not interested in serving a God like that. My God can be depended on to mean exactly what He says, not only in what He requires of us, but in every promise He has made to us. Neither is He lying when He tells us how much He loves us and is willing to do to save us.

Good point GLG.

pk

[phkrause]

As TW pointed out before and others also, if ye go by letter of law, no one keeps the sabbath as it was kept in the OT. So the question goes back to the intent of the law, not the specific way it was interpreted by the those living at the time. And, has been mentioned and discussed multiple times in the past, if you choose to not look at intent but rather specifics, it might be best to make sure everything is done as it was at that point in time. I dare say none who are quoting the 4th are willing to do that. The fact that it is quoted over and over does make it seem it is being used as in your face tactic to point out others percieved wrongs. The assumptions are not very well hidden with the rhetoric being used.

Yep, it is amusing!

One can only assume there is some boring time going on here as this subject gets rotated in and out of the forum on a regular basis.

I agree CoAspen, I do think we all tend to look at the speck in others eyes with the log sticking out of ours.

I remember a number of years ago I was talking with someone about a ballgame, not going to say what kind of a ballgame. And they asked me how I knew so much about a particular game and I mentioned that I had seen the game. And they started telling me that I should not go to this on the Sabbath. But yet it was OK for them to go boating or swimming, etc. I think each person needs to look at themselves first and be one with God on what the Sabbath is or means to them.

pk

[GreatLakesGramma]

I think each person needs to look at themselves first and be one with God on what the Sabbath is or means to them.

pk

I agree.

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

...it was very arbitrary of Him to command that the man who was caught gathering wood on the Sabbath be put to death.

I think the LORD was giving the people of Israel the message that to disobey him in any way would result in death. We may think that the death of a human is tragic, especially for some trivial infraction, but maybe ants think the same if we step on one of them and squash its life out because it bit us or ruined our picnic.

I believe it's quite important to demonstrate to the LORD our willingness to obey his commands. Then when we face our life record, we can have a clear conscience.

We shouldn’t expect others to adhere to our religious criteria, lest we err, or fall short ourselves. To try to coerce others into conforming to our possibly flawed beliefs is tyranny.

Quote:

Alien, I'm trying to follow your reasoning but I'm having a hard time...Are you implying that pleasure seeking, working, eating out, and shopping might actually be appropriate ways of keeping the Sabbath holy if one feels so inclined? A little clarity, please?

My thinking is this:

The Law Blasters who use their weapons against Law Breakers may be less acceptable to the LORD than their targets. The Law Blasters, with their Accusations directed at Law Breakers, share the same spirit as Satan, the Accuser of the Brethren. Appropriate scripture, gentle encouragement and quiet example are the only weapons members of the Kingdom should use against the ignorant or disobedient. When we get hostile and use religious laws or beliefs or scriptures as weapons, everybody loses.

[Tom Wetmore]

...One can only assume there is some boring time going on here as this subject gets rotated in and out of the forum on a regular basis.

Not sure which meaning of "boring" you intended, but I accept both may well apply as we seem obsessed with repeatedly drilling each other over legal trivia, especially with regard to the Sabbath...

I have repeatedly given my perspective on the Sabbath on these forums and rather than repeat them here will just provide links to previous threads. I do think Alex has added a succinct focus on a very significant contributing factor to the wrong direction of the Jews we Adventists have so carefully followed. We have been decidedly wrong about holiness, work, and pleasure.

We must pay careful attention to Jesus, not Moses, on this subject!

[Gerr]

Quote:

I think the LORD was giving the people of Israel the message that to disobey him in any way would result in death. We may think that the death of a human is tragic, especially for some trivial infraction,

Since when did sin become trivial? Gathering sticks, eating a forbidden fruit, Achan's change of raiment and small bar of gold, children making fun of Elisha's bald head, Uzza reflexively righting the ark. They all seemed so small, don't they? But is not the infraction all the more egregious because because of the seeming triviality of the requirement?

[GreatLakesGramma]

We shouldn’t expect others to adhere to our religious criteria, lest we err, or fall short ourselves. To try to coerce others into conforming to our possibly flawed beliefs is tyranny.

I said NOTHING about adhering to MY religious criteria. My point is that the Bible, and the Bible alone is the rule by which we are to guide our lives. It is up to each of us to commit our lives and wills to seeking the guidance of God as to how we are to apply what we read there to our own lives, and then to obey, in His power.

I don't CARE how YOU apply the Bible to your life. But I'm also not going to tell someone who asks a legitimate question that their issue doesn't matter, when the Bible clearly indicates that it does.

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

We shouldn’t expect others to adhere to our religious criteria, lest we err, or fall short ourselves. To try to coerce others into conforming to our possibly flawed beliefs is tyranny.

This comment was not specifically directed at you, GLG, or anyone else in particular who may have read it. I was thinking mainly of the hard-liners I have known in the past, and of course, the Sticklers of Jesus' days on Earth.

Good bye.