Do you go out to eat...

[doug yowell]

The Law Blasters who use their weapons against Law Breakers may be less acceptable to the LORD than their targets. The Law Blasters, with their Accusations directed at Law Breakers, share the same spirit as Satan, the Accuser of the Brethren. Appropriate scripture, gentle encouragement and quiet example are the only weapons members of the Kingdom should use against the ignorant or disobedient. When we get hostile and use religious laws or beliefs or scriptures as weapons, everybody loses.

[Tom Wetmore]

I get what he means by Law Blasters. They are those who take their boombox ghetto blasters of legalism and loudly blast the only tune they can sing trying to drown out all other music of heaven. They are largely tone deaf to that music and seek to deafen everyone else with the noise of the Law.

[doug yowell]

I get what he means by Law Blasters. They are those who take their boombox ghetto blasters of legalism and loudly blast the only tune they can sing trying to drown out all other music of heaven. They are largely tone deaf to that music and seek to deafen everyone else with the noise of the Law.

Oh, I see. The Law is the Rap(music??) of Heavenly music. Played by those who neither understand or appreciate real music.So, is the problem the level of noise at which it's played, the content of the lyrics,the inconsideration of it's disciples for the personal space of others,other, all? And again I ask, what kind of music were Nehemiah, Moses, Jeremiah,Ezekiel, Isaiah, God listening to? Boombox ghetto blasters of legalism,hmmmm, I like that. Has a certain poetic symbolistic ring to it.

[oldsailor29]

Be converted. Turn your eyes upon Jesus. Lift Him up. Study His words and follow Him.

[Haldog]

Jesus regularly broke the sabbath laws AND instructed others to do so. Ever wonder why He did that?

[SivartM]

What Sabbath laws?

I'm pretty sure that He instructed others to do good on the Sabbath. That must break a law! :\

[abelisle]

Jesus regularly broke the sabbath laws AND instructed others to do so. Ever wonder why He did that?

Because he was an iconoclast?

Alex

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I had an interesting talk with my mom last night about eating out on the Sabbath. She was telling me that some new converts had asked a couple to go out to a restaurant after church one Sabbath, and the offer was refused. So they asked my mom and dad to go out. They said, certainly they would.

Now, normally, my folks would not eat out on the Sabbath. But in deference to these very nice new converts, they accepted the offer and went out to eat. That couple became fast friends with my folks. (Interestingly, the husband had been with the FBI, so he and my mom had something in common).

This story from my mom gave me a whole new perspective on eating out on the Sabbath.

She also told me of a time when the Pathfinder Club had a potluck, and one of the Pathfinders was a non-SDA. But his mother had made fried chicken and brought it to the potluck. Not one person touched the fried chicken. My mom said if she had been at the potluck she would have taken a piece. That non-SDA mom went home feeling about an inch high.

[christine]

To me eating out on Sabbath is asking my maid or man servant to work for me on the Sabbath. We have all week to plan something simple to make or heat up when we get home from church. I'm sure that there are circumstances where it is necessary to purchase a meal on Sabbath, but that would be the individual person's decision when there would be no other option. Just an idea, but how about fasting if no other option?

[Poppyseed]

We have big potluck after church. It is a great way build a church family. I am a gardener and I love making vegan dishes from what I have grown. I am looking forward to using my cookbook my minster gave me. I don't have to work full time so I do have the time to this. Prepare this dish. I understand that women do work full time. I used too.

[Liz]

She also told me of a time when the Pathfinder Club had a potluck, and one of the Pathfinders was a non-SDA. But his mother had made fried chicken and brought it to the potluck. Not one person touched the fried chicken. My mom said if she had been at the potluck she would have taken a piece. That non-SDA mom went home feeling about an inch high.

Funny you should mention this, it reminded me of a time when I was little and someone brought fried chicken to the potluck. It was a small country church. That chicken was the first thing gone. My family wasn't vegetarian and apparantly several of "them" weren't either--LOL.

[SivartM]

Once upon a time someone took fried chicken to my grandparents' church and my grandmother, who was helping with potluck, threw it away. :(

[GreatLakesGramma]

I'm vegan, but I'd rather go to Liz's church than your grandmother's, Sivart. About half of the Adventists I know personally eat meat at home, so I can't see it as being a real issue in the churches I'm acquainted with, unless whoever is in charge that day happened to be someone like Sivart's grandmother.

However, years ago, in the closest church to us, the one our children grew up in, a then very new attendee who eventually became a close friend, brought crackers that had lard in them. The ladies in the kitchen threw them out. When she told me about it a few years later, she said if they had just given them back to her and explained why they couldn't serve them, she would not have been so upset by it. She had also brought something else, which they did put on the table.

[Tallmark]

I knew a guy who had a real small apartment and he took me and a friend out to lunch on Sabbath. We both said that we didn't usually eat out on Sabbath, but we understood since he couldn't fit us in to his place. I became SDA in 1980. I noticed that in the 90s, more people were going out to lunch after church. We used to call the local Olive Garden Forest Lake West because there were so many Adventists there. My feeling on eating out on Sabbath is the same as the gun issue: it's an individual matter. Some won't read the newspaper on Sabbath, etc. Whatever restrictions one does is their business, not mine. I knew a guy who worked out on Sabbath. When I work out, I WORK out. It has no place on Sabbath for me.

[phkrause]

I had an interesting talk with my mom last night about eating out on the Sabbath. She was telling me that some new converts had asked a couple to go out to a restaurant after church one Sabbath, and the offer was refused. So they asked my mom and dad to go out. They said, certainly they would.

Now, normally, my folks would not eat out on the Sabbath. But in deference to these very nice new converts, they accepted the offer and went out to eat. That couple became fast friends with my folks. (Interestingly, the husband had been with the FBI, so he and my mom had something in common).

This story from my mom gave me a whole new perspective on eating out on the Sabbath.

She also told me of a time when the Pathfinder Club had a potluck, and one of the Pathfinders was a non-SDA. But his mother had made fried chicken and brought it to the potluck. Not one person touched the fried chicken. My mom said if she had been at the potluck she would have taken a piece. That non-SDA mom went home feeling about an inch high.

Pam I think that was very nice of your parents to do. The sad thing about that lady that brought the chicken that no one ate! I bet that half of those wonderful Adventist probably ate meat at home. Pretty sad. I remember when working for FFT. One year they took us out to eat. About 6-8 people order before me. None of them ordered any meat dishes. Well when they got to me I ordered the steak dinner, in those days I ate red meat (I was 18 at the time). Would you believe everyone of those before me changed there orders.

I always say be who you are, that's what God loves.

pk

[Dr. Shane]

I attended a rural Minnesota church when some Mexican migrant workers started to attend. They did not speak English. They would sit in the far back pew and their children would translate the sermon to them. When they brought fried chicken to pot luck our Pastor was the first to dig in. After him several other members took some. Later, someone told one of the children that a lot of the members are vegetarian but did not tell them they couldn't bring meat to potluck. Eventually they broke away and started a Spanish-speaking church and at their own potlucks they never brought meat either.

[Dr. Shane]

To answer the original question.

We have went out to eat on the Sabbath.

I don't believe it is the right thing to do. I think when we have done it is because we failed to use the day of preparation (Friday) to properly prepare for the Sabbath.

We should be inviting each other over to our homes on the Sabbath so eating out becomes a non-issue.

[Tom Wetmore]

To me eating out on Sabbath is asking my maid or man servant to work for me on the Sabbath...how about fasting if no other option?

A close reading of the list in the commandment of those not to work were those "within your gates". That phrase suggests those of your own household or your own business property. Unless you are adopting the And the emphasis is on "your[/] work" which has a very distinct meaning of one's own occupation or business. The work prohibited was your own business, occupation. I don't see eating out as within my gates or an act connected with my occupation.

As for the fasting, this seems antithetical to the true meaning and spirit of the Sabbath, which is about celebration, joy, serving and fellowshipping with others. I am not aware of the Biblical reference but someone else mentioned that fasting was not allowed on the Sabbath.

I prefer eating at home on Sabbath nonetheless. But I don't have a big problem with eating out either.

[Neil D]

Re: Sabbath, "with in your gates"

I agree with Tom. Eating out on the Sabbath is not in the perview of the "within your gates" edict.

Jesus also showed this as well in Matt 12

1At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.

2But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."

3But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions, 4how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone? 5"Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?

6"But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

7"But if you had known what this means, ' I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent.

Lord of the Sabbath "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath." 9Departing from there, He went into their synagogue.

Two principles are innumerated here, I believe...1] Eating outside of your house/property is permissable, and 2] God desires "compassion and not sacrifice"....

So why are we so nic-picky about eating out on the Sabbath?

[Esther123]

The Sabbath is a holy day and we are not to buy or sell on the Sabbath....so it is obvious that eating out should not even be up for question. Nor would I fly on the Sabbath. In fact I fly quite a bit and I avoid travel on the Sabbath. I know an elder in a local church that eats out on Sabbath (until a talk with the pastor) and flys out on vacations on the Sabbath. He rationalizes that he has prepaid....but in doing so he makes others work on the Sabbath. We need to be more careful about our holy day, the Sabbath, as some day we will have to make an eternal decision of whether we will obey man or God and keep it holy.....actually that is something that should have already been decided, but I find a lot of SDAs are leaning over the fence so they can straddle both worlds. In the end they will loose their lives because as we know you can truely only serve one...

Pick up your Bible and study asking God what you can do to please Him and not yourself. Too many SDAs do not want to "suffer" for their choices so they walk the fence. My friends,

God wants a firm choice come what may. We need to trust Him.

Too many have not made a firm commitment. Let us continue to pray for them.

[Woody]

Esther ... God wants an honest choice and not a man made come what may choice. We can trust in Him and His word ... not man made rules. To many have not studied and made a commitment to God and His word. Instead ... they fabricate rules to follow in hopes that their god will deem them worthy. They are like the Jews of old. But let's continue to pray for them.

Folks ... the ones who work on Sabbath ... they are going to work on Sabbath. By our withholding some small amount of work from them ... will not assist in their eternal salvation. This is clearly an attempt at salvation by works like the Jews. God wants our hearts. Thinking that withholding work somehow will help their spirituality is WORKS ... simply WORKS.

I don't eat out on Sabbath period. But that is a personal choice. I see no fault in someone doing so. For me ... it disrupts my Sabbath atmosphere. And that is the only reason I would not eat out. But others do not feel as I do. And we all commune with God in different ways. I have no doubt that those who commune in restaurants ... can do so ... just fine. It's just that personally ... I can't.

To each his own.

[Neil D]

The Sabbath is a holy day and we are not to buy or sell on the Sabbath....so it is obvious that eating out should not even be up for question.

[Suenell]

If we couldn't drive our vehicle to church, most of us couldn't make it there. So what do we do? Just how far do we go? Some Jews were debating the work of pushing a button in order to use an elevator YET would walk up the 3 flights of stairs to get back home! So just how much "work" was exerted at either point of leaving home or returning?

Several Sabbaths I've gone to visit my children which is many hours away. The trip is begun with prayer & it is a joy to listen to our CDs with sermons and/or dramatized Bible, and/or singing songs or me reading from a Christian article to my husband who is driving. I also like the picnic type food that we bring to stop halfway to eat.

[Woody]

Yes Sue. I think that listening to sermons in the car is one of the best places. It allows for both listening and discussions with the family. What other situation allows for this as well as driving in a car.

I used to work for a Catholic Hospital. They would pay me to listen to SDA sermons. Ha Ha (I would listen to the sermons while traveling in the car for the Hospital.)

Boy ... if the Jesuits only knew.

[Esther123]

The Bible speaks of an evil conscience, a defiled conscience and a seared conscience, none of which are safe. The Bible (which includes God's law) is my only safety. ISA 8:20.

God says, "He that trusteth in his own heart is a "fool." Proverbs 28:26. See 1 Timothy 4:2 and Titus 1:15 So much for "everyone to his own...." "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end therof are the ways of death....The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways:..." Proverbs 14:12,14.

We should not have any problem keeping the law and following the law because God's law is the definition of sin. The law points out what is right & what is wrong. 1 John 3:4. Through the law comes the knowledge of sin.

Is keeping the law legalism? No. It's working out your own salvation through the obedience to the law. We need to become familiar with the letter and the spirit of the law because we are going to be judged by it. "Whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10-12.

"Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matt 7:21. "If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt 19:17.

Obedience is not legalism. Legalism is working out your own salvation through obedience to the law. Obedience is the loving response we should have to a loving God and His grace.

The loving response of a child is to obey their parents.

Jesus said we are his friends if we do what he commands us to do. John 15:14. Paul says that the doers of the law shall be justified. Romans 2:13

Now, we can not keep the whole law without offending in at lease one point, so that is where Christ's perfect law keeping is imputed to us when we accept Him as our Saviour.

Nehemiah encountered a problem in his day with the people buying and selling on the Sabbath day. Notice one of the things God's people were doing was buying from men of Tyre. "Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day? Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city by profaning the sabbath?" Nehemiah 13:15-22.

In summary - we might ask, "Aren't sincerity and zeal enough?" The answer is NO! We must be right. The apostle Paul was sincere and zealous when he persecuted the Christians prior to his conversion, but he was also wrong. Acts 22:3,4;

26:9-11