The "Everlasting" Three Angel's Message

[skyblue888]

I doubt it and I think you know why.

[Guest]

It's all there. Everything Jones said in the GC Bullitins from 1893-1905.

Also the Waggoner books you mentioned:

Christ and His Righteousness

The Glad Tidings

The Gospel in Creation

And much more. Maybe every thing they ever wrote.

[skyblue888]

Why did u ask if you already knew?

I'm really happy to hear that everything can be found there.

sky

[Guest]

I didn't know until I looked. Just now.

[Guest]

I don't see "Lessons from the Reformation" but that don't mean it's not in there. Besides I have it on in PDF format.

[Guest]

Why did you think it wouldn't be there. Tammy over at "The Narrow Way" and her husband, say that everything Jones wrote after 1895 is dangerous heresy.

What do you think of that?

[Dr. Rich]

Richard, as for the word Bondservants, read the first verse in Revelation. It is in my bible so I am sure that is where MM got it from too. The Father gave the revelation to His Son, who wanted to give it to His bondservants, but since He told the disciples He was not coming back until the wedding feast, He had to send and Angel to John, so John could write it down for these Bondservants living in the last generation, so that could read it and understand it. The context says nothing about anyone else understanding it--does it?

[Guest]

I don't see anything exclusive there. His servants are His followers. I happen to be one. I understand you want to feel all exclusive like you are the only ones that God has seen fit to share truth with. But Jesus said whosoever will. Notice in verse three it says to he that reads or hears. Are you telling me I can't read it? That's not what Jesus said. For someone who supposedly follows Jesus, you sure have a lot of trouble with some of the things he says.

Jesus says believe or be damned, MM says: "no, don't believe, I don't believe in anything. Believe what? You don't need faith" Hmmmm.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is thirsty come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

[Dr. Rich]

Daniel 12:10, "Only the wise will understand [hear], none of the wicked will understand". Isn't this exclusive?

Trouble is this, I assume, that most people think there is only one group of people going to heaven. In my study I find three. The three angel's message is for the third group, the bride who is found in Rev. 7:9- who can't be counted and come from within all races and nations. The first group, the 144k is what MM is talking about. The second group are yelled at to wake up and actually listen to them, they are the wise maids. These two groups are exclusive to the KOH and are sealed prior to the tribulation. I think this is the reason for the misunderstanding and confusion.

I asked the question once but did not get any answer. What does the 'hour' mean in these messages?

[wayfinder]

Richard: Reading is one thing, truth in understanding is quite another.

Notice the singular "he" and the plural "those", the "he" who reads, tells "those" who hear.

Matthew 24:45 Who then is the trustworthy and sensible bondservant whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food (God's words) at the proper time...

[Guest]

Ok you're right. You guys are the only three on the planet who really understand Bible prophecy. Because you are the wise people spoken of in Daniel. I can tell.

Just tell me what I need to do.

[Musicman1228]

Did Jesus 'believe' in God as His Father, or did He KNOW that God was His father?

If you sincerely believe something is true that later turns out to be a lie are you still not held accountable for believing a lie? Many will go to God and say, "I really thought that what I believed was true because I heard it from someone who I trusted. Does that count for nothing?" Jesus will answer that person as he does for the five foolish bridesmaids.

"Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ Matt.25:11,12.

The door to the marriage feast is not opened to the five foolish bridesmaids, even though they eventually get to the door. These people sincerely believed a lie, yet that sincerity counts for nothing, it is ONLY THE RESULT that counts.

What one believes does skew thought processes. The reason that people still drive while intoxicated even after all of the publicity and threats of fines and imprisonment is that when you are drunk you are insensate and not in your right (correct) mind. You can't make a good decision because you are impaired. This is no excuse before the law, as many find out every day when they are thrown in jail for drunk driving.

In Scripture the penalty for being drunk with believing a lie as if it is the truth are very sever:

But if that wicked servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt.24:48-51.

In this passage we see what will happen to the faithful and wise bondservant IF he goes back on what he has learned, and stops teaching his fellow servants the truth. [secondary question: why would Jesus severely punish someone for not knowing when to expect the Master IF it is impossible for anyone to know when the Master is to return? This seem a touch arbitrary and vindictive, doesn't it?]

[Guest]

In this passage we see what will happen to the faithful and wise bondservant IF he goes back on what he has learned, and stops teaching his fellow servants the truth.

[Musicman1228]

Richard said, "Nowhere does it say the bondservant will know, and nowhere does it say he will be punished for not knowing. It's telling him to remain faithful, because he does not know."

Apparently you didn't read Matt.24:48-51, or if you did you ignored it. Either that or you just can't process this logically due to your ingrained 'belief', which was in my last post. Just because you don't understand something does not automatically make it untrue. Look at it again carefully and then ask the hard questions that are demanded to find the truth of it.

After you do this please answer the question "Why does the Master punish the faithful and wise servant?"

[oldsailor29]

Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for you know not what hour your Lord does come.

Mat 24:44 Therefore be you also ready: for in such an hour as you think not the Son of man comes.

It's telling him to remain faithful, because he does not know.

The servant just needs to keep doing the right thing, and being faithful, so when the Master does come, that is what he will be found doing.

The whole point of the parable, is to convey the need to be ready.

It is a delight to say I think Richard is correct here. I think I made the same observation sometime last year. I would just add that the one who gives all faithful servants meat in due season is the Holy Spirit.

I have wondered why John does not weigh in on this topic, but I imagine he has, sometime in the past.

Speaking of a topic, and getting back on topic, I would like to have a clearer understanding of how the three angels messages answer the three great deceptions of Satan.

[oldsailor29]

Daniel 2:34,35,44,45 speaks of the Kingdom of Heaven and what will occur when that final Kingdom appears on earth. Is this not enough for you? This is a Kingdom cut out of the Mountain of the Lord WITHOUT HANDS, meaning that this Kingdom came out of the world based on the study of Scripture not as a result of direct intervention on the part of God. The descriptions in these verses perfectly describe what happened in the Advent movement in 1844. Yet you apparently disagree only because I say it.

The stone from the mountain of God which grows to fill the earth is the kingdom of God, but not the SDA church. This is the prophecy of the New Jerusalem and new (post millennium) earth.

This mountain of God represents the "mount of assembly" (har mowed) for all of creation. The stone represents the earth portion of that mountain. This is the place where heavenly battles are fought. Har Mowed. Har rhymes with car Mow with a long o - and ade, like kool-ade. Har mow ade. But in the ancient Hebrew it was pronounced with a hard "g" before the aide, so it was har mow gade. Harmowgade = Armageddon. Armageddon has nothing to do with the city or valley of Megiddo. It is the mount of the assembly, the mount of God. This is where the stone of Daniel 2 came from, and became the mount or kingdom of God for our world. This is in the future. And we can all be a part of that future if we follow Jesus, for He said he is the way and no one reaches the kingdom except through Him.

[Guest]

"Why does the Master punish the faithful and wise servant?"

First off, God never punishes the faithful. I don't know where you get that idea, because it's not in the Bible. God only punishes the unfaithful. I know you profess to be unfaithful, and seem to wear it as a badge of honor. This is contrary to everything the Bible has to say about faith. Are you so backwards in your beliefs, that you think God is going to punish the faithful, and reward the wicked?

I read 48-51 again. It still doesn't say the servant should have known when, it only says that the Lord will come while he is not looking for him. From that, you surmise that he should have known, but that's not what it says. What it says is that he should have remained faithful, and been looking for the coming of the master. We are to remain faithful and be ready and looking, even though we don't know exactly when that will be.

Not one word is said about the servant being shown the exact time. Again the whole point of the parable is that we should be faithful, ready, and waiting. If you could show a text that says otherwise, I would change my belief. But there isn't one.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for you know not what hour your Lord does come.

Mat 24:44 Therefore be you also ready: for in such an hour as you think not the Son of man comes.

The best anyone can do, is to know when it is near.

Mat 24:33 So likewise you, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

[Guest]

The stone from the mountain of God which grows to fill the earth is the kingdom of God, but not the SDA church. This is the prophecy of the New Jerusalem and new (post millennium) earth.

Amen oldsailor

[Dr. Rich]

oldsailor wrote: "I have wondered why John does not weigh in on this topic, but I imagine he has, sometime in the past."

Could it be that John had already written about the end events in Revelation so he did not have to write about it in his gospel? Just wondering???

When taken all together, Dan. 2's Rock, Matthew 24's ONE head of the household, and Matthew 25's ten virgin prophecy, and then Rev. 2 and 3's messages to this Kingdom of Heaven while here on this earth just before Jesus comes, the evidence clearly points to the SDA church as this KOH, but they do not know it since they are spiritually sleeping.

And of course, it goes without saying that "Adventists" are not necessarily members of the SDA Church, but those who know that Jesus is going to come and keep the commandments AND the testimony (words) of Jesus.

The Bride are those who then head the three angels message during the time of trouble and are NOT Adventists because probation for Adventists is up just before the time of trouble. This is why it is very important to know what is going to happen and when. Let's not be found to be sleeping at that time!

[Guest]

Quote:

Let's not be found to be sleeping at that time!

Or off on some wild goose chase, setting time prophecies and teaching things that are not in the Bible. While ignoring things that are.

Quote:

When taken all together, Dan. 2's Rock, Matthew 24's ONE head of the household, and Matthew 25's ten virgin prophecy, and then Rev. 2 and 3's messages to this Kingdom of Heaven while here on this earth just before Jesus comes, the evidence clearly points to the SDA church as this KOH

Could you show how that works, because none of these texts you have listed actually give any identifying marks that point to the SDA church. The message to the Laodiceans, I believe points out the condition of the SDA church, but still there are no distinguishing marks.

There are some texts that do distinguish the SDAs from the rest of the world, but none of them are the texts you mentioned.

[Musicman1228]

Between 33 CE and 1843 there was no Kingdom of Heaven on earth. 33 CE marked the end of literal Israel as God's Kingdom. 1843 marked the end of the 2300 evening and morning prophecy of Dan 8:14, and the beginning of the time set aside for the restoration/cleansing of the Temple in Heaven. This prophecy began in 457 BCE with the decree to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem (national sovereignty was restore to Israel). The exact date when the final Kingdom of Heaven was put in place was Oct.23, 1843. The only organized body of believes that could possibly qualify as the Kingdom of Heaven in that year was the Millerite/Advent Movement, which eventually became the SDA church.

That qualifies as a 'distinguishing mark' in my book.

The SDA church was given a special commission by God to be His Kingdom on earth. We are the ONLY body of 'believers' that claim that the 10 Commandments are still in force. It was these same commandments, identified as the Covenant (Deut. 4:13), that established Israel as the Kingdom of Heaven at Sinai. God established/identified a final Kingdom of Heaven in 1843 (which is found in the prophecy in Dan.2 as the kingdom cut out of the Mountain of the Lord, without hands) by this same Covenant.

The name Seventh-day (commandments) Adventist (the King's return) has a reputation that is alive, but as of now our church is sound asleep (Matt. 25:1-13, Rev.3:1-2). The consanguinity is to perfect to ignore.

Israel was given two chances to become the Kingdom of Heaven. Jerusalem was the capitol city for this Kingdom. Jerusalem is the 'Great City' that is identified in Revelation. It is also identified as 'Babylon the Great'. Therefore when you read about the first of the three angels messages in Rev. 15 we can identify that it is Jerusalem that 'is fallen, is fallen' (2x). It is not Catholicism that is identified in the first angels message, it is Judaism.

[Musicman1228]

I am actually a little surprised that no one has taken a stab at responding to my last post. Does this mean everyone agrees with me? (Me thinks not.)

[Dr. Rich]

The question should be, how can anyone NOT disagree?

[Musicman1228]

Does that mean you agree or disagree?

[oldsailor29]

KOH is in Heaven. Christians are God's covenant people, like the ancient city states of the Suzerainty covenants. A city state is not the actual kingdom, but an extension or annex of the kingdom. The care of ancient city states was often given to former kings of that state and to an angel of the city, who reports to God in His divine council meetings. Sometimes the city state would have a prophet who would be taken in vision to the divine council. Recently, there is only one such prophet, Ellen Harmon White. There may be others in the future, but none yet.