Important Seminar: Getting Out of the Cities/Living Off the Land...

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

Well, perhaps your experience determines your thinking on this. What happened, friend?

Well; my experience has some to do with this obviously, but I don't see how we can think that it is possible for everyone to get out of the cities. Many places don't even have mountains, and the ones that do - well there is not enough room in the mountains for all these people. (atleast in most locations).

I would have to refresh my memory again as to exact references, but I am sure there are other quotes that would provide better balance to this subject than what Richard quoted. We were too far from the city to survive the extra costs of "making a living" and to make a long story short, there is counsel (S.O.P.) that also talks about being properly prepared and actually knowing that God is calling you to do this. I don't think He expects that everyone will be able to "get out of the city." yet, many of those will be saved...won't they?

Dear Overaged.

Maybe next time will be different, if there is a next time. Each of us have made rash decisions in business & life. As we learn from those decisions God adds wisdom to our life.

The biggest disadvantage of cities is the cost they extract on our families. Lot watching the smoke rise over his destroyed family would have gladly accepted the cost of moving his family to the wilderness over the cost of losing them.

Blessings to you,

oG

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

At least you made an attempt. And no I don't have any answers, but God does. And He may be using the seminar people to help those who want to do what they can, while they can, regarding the instruction.

There is usually more than one "side" to any "instruction." (no matter what the topic).

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

You can eat deer meat.

[SivartM]

You can eat deer meat.

O_o

I'll just live somewhere near a Whole Foods. Or Earth Fare. :)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Live next to the fields of produce grown by the Mormon church and steal what you need.

[SivartM]

I suppose that would be cheaper. But it sort of defeats the purpose if one wishes to eat ethically. :)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

is it ethical to eat a deer when there's plenty of vegetation around?

[SivartM]

I wouldn't do it. :\

Why would someone want to? :|

[Dr. Shane]

When Ellen White told us to get out of the cities the world was quite different. The cities were different and the country was different. City life and country life were drastically different.

The economy in the cities was driven by manufacturing. The cities were very polluted. Prior to the automobile becoming commonly used in the 1920s and 1930s, the cities were literally full of horse manure. The cities were also filled with bars, bowling allies, dance halls and live theaters.

The economy in the country was driven by manufacturing. People would live on their farms for weeks without going into town. People worked from sun up to sun down. Local towns were often made up of no more than a general store, a church and a tavern. When one wasn't working, reading was a common past time.

100 years later the difference between city life and country life is minimal. Most every little town has a theater, fast-food restaurants and bars. Bowling allies and other such places of entertainment can be found in small town and large city alike. The biggest temptations we face today are drugs, alcohol, sexual promiscuity, materialism and inappropriate music, television and video games. Getting out of the city doesn't get us away from any of that.

[Guest]

So we should ignore the words of the prophet, because we have outlived the usefulness of God's warning?

[Woody]

Much of what our prophet says is 'conditional'.

[Overaged]

I'll bet they have. It seems God had quite a bit to say on this topic through Ellen White. You may be surprised at what all they've thought of. Maybe you should sign up, instead of trying to belittle the effort of others, and the instruction from God.

One of the first clues that you are off base here is the way you have seen fit to make this personal; rather than Biblical/theological. What you call "belittling" is actually something much different. You have found several ways to make this personal - as in some short-coming on my part; and then in the same breath you urge me to "sign up." Richard; I do not sign up to anything that is not Biblical, or that is incomplete, as in not the full story, which is what I was getting at when I said there were different sides to all truths. Take the 4 different accounts of the gospels, by four different disciples. Each had a few details in their account that the others did not see. It is the same for your "get out of the city" doctrine.

You seem to be saying here that everyone (Adventists) should get out of the cities, yet you have no suggestions for the many who you accuse of "not obeying" when in fact, it is impossible for them to do because of various external/enviromental factors beyond their control. Clearly, this doctrine of "get out of the city" can't be for everyone. I know people who would go right now; but they live from paycheck to paycheck, and if the father of the household would get sick for even three days, they would be short that much for the rent, and unable to catch it up, They would be on the streets in no time, and you are telling all such ones WHO WOULD GO IF THEY SAW A WAY to go anyways? How hard is it for you to "get out of the city?" I'd be willing to bet you don't have half that kind of struggle, so this is something you "obey" just because you have the resources. I'd like to see you make the same choice should you be in the shoes of the people I am referring to.

This is kind of like the Bicycle thing where people said: "Ellen White says that bikes are "wrong." When in fact that's not what she was saying.

For years we have endured people saying: "Ellen White says: "Get out of the cities," yet, it must be asked. Are those quotes you gave, actually given in their original, intended context? Can you supply Bible text to support "the lesser light" by the "greater light?" I doubt that you can here on this point. And can you tell us what scripture says the actual main point/lesson is when we "get out of the cities?" What is God trying to tell us by having us do that? Is it just to save our skins, as in another selfish religion? Or is He making a bigger point?

I wonder if this seminar you laud will go into these kinds of points at all?

[SivartM]

Not to denigrate your experiences, Overaged, but I don't see anything in this seminar that says, "You must get out of the city or else." For those who do have the resources, it could be good information, and for those who don't, it might not accuse them of disobedience.

I'm just saying, don't get mad at the ambiguous seminar over a disagreement with someone who I assume is not affiliated with it.

[Dr. Rich]

IF you want to be a bondservant for Jesus Christ, then please tell me what good will you do witnessing to others by running away and hiding in the wilderness? You people talk about faith--well, just where is you faith (trust) in God to take care of you IF you are witnessing for Him?

EGW's words are for those who do not intend to be bondservants and witness to others. Please don't get caught up in the idea that we all must hide just to be safe from the 'beast'.

[abelisle]

EGW statements like these re: "getting out of the cities" must be read in their historical and cultural contexts.

These are not Biblical mandates.

But there is logic to the idea that cities will be dangerous places to live in the end times. I have chosen for now to live in the city and work for my fellow brethren who cannot go anywhere else. There are millions of unsaved people in NYC.

In Ministry of Healing, EGW mentions these small cells that will live in and work within the cities.

Alex

[Overaged]

IF you want to be a bondservant for Jesus Christ, then please tell me what good will you do witnessing to others by running away and hiding in the wilderness? You people talk about faith--well, just where is you faith (trust) in God to take care of you IF you are witnessing for Him?

EGW's words are for those who do not intend to be bondservants and witness to others. Please don't get caught up in the idea that we all must hide just to be safe from the 'beast'.

This is the opposite end of the pole, and shows just why you do not correctly understand this get out of the cities doctrine either. I will wait to see if Richard or anyone else can answer my questions of the last post before continuing.

[Guest]

You seem to be saying here that everyone (Adventists) should get out of the cities, yet you have no suggestions for the many who you accuse of "not obeying" when in fact, it is impossible for them to do because of various external/enviromental factors beyond their control.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: overaged

You seem to be saying here that everyone (Adventists) should get out of the cities, yet you have no suggestions for the many who you accuse of "not obeying" when in fact, it is impossible for them to do because of various external/enviromental factors beyond their control.

Like I said before, I don't have the answers. And I haven't accused anybody of anything.

Well; you have just accused me of a "tirade" and I am sorry if you don't like my questions; but maybe you should think a little more about what you tell people in regards to "getting out of the city." You said you don't even have answers for the questions I asked so why try to promote this to people? How can you promote something you don't have answers for?

[Overaged]

EGW statements like these re: "getting out of the cities" must be read in their historical and cultural contexts.

These are not Biblical mandates.

There is scripture which talks about this. But what do these scriptures mean for us today? What is God trying to tell us?

[Dr. Shane]

Perhaps no big deal, but just to clarify...

Quote:

The economy in the country was driven by manufacturing.

That should have read "The economy in the country was driven by agriculture."

So we should ignore the words of the prophet, because we have outlived the usefulness of God's warning?

If the church had done the will of God, Christ would have come when Ellen White was still alive. I do believe that some of here councils are not applicable today.

[Guest]

maybe you should think a little more about what you tell people in regards to "getting out of the city."

[Guest]

Agree, a very common sense comment!! But, you must remember, when people get up on the high horse, context gets rapidly by passed!!!

There aren't too many horses out there much higher than the one you ride. The only time I ever see you comment on anything is when you have something negative to say about somebody, or to inform someone of "what the norm is on these forums" in your assumed condscending manor. Or to ridicule somebody for believing EGW.

Put a sock in it.

[Jodie]

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Seminar Topics Future of America's Cities

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Growing food in small spaces

Long term food storage

Back Up Power Systems

Natural home remedies

Finding Country Property

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I attended a similar online seminar to this one recently, I believe it was presented by the same ministry. I highly recommend attending if at all possible. They have some great information to share and also some living proof examples that are working.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

Agree, a very common sense comment!! But, you must remember, when people get up on the high horse, context gets rapidly by passed!!!

There aren't too many horses out there much higher than the one you ride. The only time I ever see you comment on anything is when you have something negative to say about somebody, or to inform someone of "what the norm is on these forums" in your assumed condscending manor. Or to ridicule somebody for believing EGW.

Put a sock in it.

[Overaged]