Important Seminar: Getting Out of the Cities/Living Off the Land...

[John317]

Quote:

Overaged

If some here want to say the supplied quotes by Ellen White on this subject mean that everyone must get out of the cities; and if they are trying to say it is not optional or conditional; then it does create the difficulty of the question I have brought up. If it's not a salvation issue to you, then that's fine. I have no quarrel with it then.

It can be a salvation issue, not because God arbitarily decides not to save people who live in the city, but because when we live in the city, it can be easier to let go of God's hand and wander off. I know this is true because it is what happened to me and I have seen it happen to many others. I've lived in San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, New Orleans, New York City, and Seattle; and I can tell you that for young people, those cities don't hold out much that's positive spiritually. To speak plainly, our young people, to say nothing of adults, don't have the spiritual strength to walk by a nude bar or a place where young men are dancing naked, without wanting to check out the action; or to resist the drugs, the alcohol, the bad language, the materialism, and everything else that goes with life in the city. Sure, people can find those temptations in small towns, too, but in the big city, those kinds of things are in your face constantly.

[Overaged]

It can be a salvation issue, not because God arbitarily decides not to save people who live in the city, but because when we live in the city, it can be easier to let go of God's hand and wander off.

The same level of "easier" exists no matter where one is living. If someone is going to "let go of God's hand" they would do it no matter where they are living. I know quite a few people in the country, and so I see this personally. In fact, one family of Adventists whom I visited "out in the country" happened to be of the persuasion where they said they got all their "messages" directly from the Holy Spirit," and that because of this they no longer needed the Bible. So much for "getting out of the cities." If I am not mistaken; I believe this latter scenario would also be "a matter of salvation."

[Overaged]

Ellen White's counsel was that everyone should live outside of the big cities unless the Lord directed them to stay in it

[Guest]

If it's not a salvation issue to you, then that's fine. I have no quarrel with it then.

Then you could have saved ALL that hot air, and your "IMPORTANT EXERCISE". NOBODY said it was a salvation issue.

Deal with reality much?

John said it can be, and he's right.

[Dr. Rich]

John wrote: "To speak plainly, our young people, to say nothing of adults, don't have the spiritual strength to walk by a nude bar or a place where young men are dancing naked, without wanting to check out the action..."

WHAT? You have to be kidding? Just who do you consider "our young people" are? Not the ones I know! While I agree the large cities are a jungle for the youth, it all depends on who they are and how they were brought up.

No, it can't be a salvation issue, but for peace of mind it probably would be the best thing to do is to live a urban life style. I grew up in a college town and then we moved to a mountain ranch. While the people around us were miles away while living at the ranch, for some reason we were also much closer to them as neighbors. A trust relationship came about with those of us who lived like this. When someone needed help, all of us came running. In a city, everyone just looks the other way.

[Overaged]

Deal with reality much?

Thanks for proving one of the points of my "exercise." (for atleast the 10th time in this topic). It's amazing how those teaching the way you do about this are so compelled to resort to the personal insult. That only happens because you haven't got a Biblical leg to stand on. I see you seem to enjoy treating others like this when you don't like what they say either.

I showed several of many quotes above that prove this is not a salvation issue; guess you just don't like those ones so they don't apply in your mind.

Like I said above; if this is a salvation issue; and you can't be saved if you don't "get out of the city," then in one swoop you have eliminated the need for Calvary, because all you have to do is "get out of the city."

[Overaged]

John wrote: "To speak plainly, our young people, to say nothing of adults, don't have the spiritual strength to walk by a nude bar or a place where young men are dancing naked, without wanting to check out the action..."

WHAT? You have to be kidding? Just who do you consider "our young people" are? Not the ones I know! While I agree the large cities are a jungle for the youth, it all depends on who they are and how they were brought up.

When someone needed help, all of us came running. In a city, everyone just looks the other way.

I have experienced this kind of thing many times in the city too. When one needed help, the others came running. While there might be "more of it" in a city; the country usually has all these "amenities" in it now too. And how many liquor joints does it take to ruin a life? Do you need "many" as in the city, or one, as in the country?

As you say, it all depends upon who they are and how they are brought up. That makes a lot of sense.

[SivartM]

I live in a small town, and everyone here is up in arms about building a liquor store "too close" to a church. I felt like telling everyone that building next to this church will not make me start drinking... but I decided to stay out of it as usual.

Besides, I don't think they should have liquor stores here anyway... too many drunk maniacs out there already. Yay for safety in the country.

[BobRyan]

Turns out that "making the church folk start drinking" is not the issue with liquor stores close to churches.

[BobRyan]

Please do not miss this important seminar coming up on Sunday April 18,2010 @ 10am-5pm PST. "Prepare Los Angeles" Getting out of the cities.

Seminar Topics Future of America's Cities

How to Prepare

Growing food in small spaces

Long term food storage

Back Up Power Systems

Natural home remedies

Finding Country Property

Affordable Homestead Options

Much more! ...Please share this link with everyone you know in southern California. http://clicks.aweber.com/y/ct/?l=7eq6g&m=JYUo10tPxnIH8C&b=qrRWdjgpZt5tbxMOIoYAKASee More

Prepare! Los Angeles

clicks.aweber.com

Prepare! Los Angeles - A Life Changing Seminar Giving You the Tools you need for Preparedness

Great topics. But I am on the other side of the nation - still it is a good seminar according to that list of topics.

in Christ,

Bob

[John317]

Quote:

John3:17: "To speak plainly, our young people, to say nothing of adults, don't have the spiritual strength to walk by a nude bar or a place where young men are dancing naked, without wanting to check out the action..."

Quote:

Dr. Rich: WHAT? You have to be kidding? Just who do you consider "our young people" are? Not the ones I know! While I agree the large cities are a jungle for the youth, it all depends on who they are and how they were brought up.

I don't believe it's good thing for any Adventist young people to live in the big cities. I think it's best to do as the messenger of God told us to do. I've lived both ways and I know the influence of the cities on me when I was in my teen years clear up to my late 30s. I loved the cities but they had a devastating effect on me, and while there, I ran into SDAs downtown who were just like me: addicted to sex shops, drinking, carousing, etc. Can people sin in the countryside? Sure, of course, but anyone is kidding themselves if they think it's the same.

[John317]

Quote:

Overaged:

As you say, it all depends upon who they are and how they are brought up. That makes a lot of sense.

Have you read what Ellen White wrote about Enoch or about Lot's decision to live in the city?

I don't think you can bring up anyone so that the big city will be the best place for them.

Do you live in a big city? I live not too far from Los Angeles, Hollywood, etc., but it's far enough away that I'm in a relatively small town (20, 000) only about 20 minutes from lakes and mountains. I have two daughters that I'm glad don't have to be in the big cities. I often have gone into LA to do street photography on skid row and among the gangs in central Los Angeles and over near Hollywood and Vine. I know that's not where God wants us to bring up our Adventist young people.

[aldona]

Turns out that "making the church folk start drinking" is not the issue with liquor stores close to churches.

Why can't the church see it as an opportunity to "make the liquor store folk start coming to church?"

What a potential target group for outreach - and they are about to start coming within feet of your church, of their own free will.

Just an observation - I have worked in the city, and I have worked in the country. There may be fewer liquor stores in the country, but there seemed to be more people drinking, and drinking larger quantities. I have always felt safe walking around the streets at night growing up in the Melbourne suburbs, but not in the country towns that I did my rural doc training in.

The countryside is not all sweetness and light. I don't know about the USA, but certainly in Australia, the statistics on just about everything are worse in the country. Alcohol and drug use, mental illness, unemployment, suicide, even diseases like bowel cancer and heart attacks (and the availability of good treatments for all of the above is more difficult to obtain.)

A speaker at our recent church Camp talked about this subject, and mentioned that in EGW's time only about 5-10% of people worldwide lived in cities. Now the figure has just passed 50%.

We should not idealize rural life as some kind of Utopia based on what it was like in the 19th century, when everybody could be an amateur farmer and sustain a family easily, and only the most unemployable and those who did not fit in to their country communities ended up in cities.

aldona

(lives in the outer suburbs)

[Guest]

I showed several of many quotes above that prove this is not a salvation issue; guess you just don't like those ones so they don't apply in your mind.

You're still not dealing with reality. Either that, or you need to put on your glasses and re-read my posts. (read the whole thread) Slowly this time.

Here, I'll say it again: "Nobody said it was a salvation issue". You keep trying to say that I did, but that is not true. If you go back and re-read, you will see that NOBODY has. You're arguing against something that hasn't even been said. And you have been for almost ten pages now.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: overaged

I showed several of many quotes above that prove this is not a salvation issue; guess you just don't like those ones so they don't apply in your mind.

You're still not dealing with reality. Either that, or you need to put on your glasses and re-read my posts. (read the whole thread) Slowly this time.

Here, I'll say it again: "Nobody said it was a salvation issue". You keep trying to say that I did, but that is not true. If you go back and re-read, you will see that NOBODY has. You're arguing against something that hasn't even been said. And you have been for almost ten pages now.

But what you said means just that to many people Richard. I guess that's the part you missed in my posts.

[Guest]

Believing in His Guidance

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory. 1Co_2:5-7.

You are accepted in the Beloved. I have had the most earnest desire that you should perfect a Christian character, not in your own strength, but in the strength and in the virtue and righteousness of Christ. The donation of the Holy Spirit was the greatest gift God could bestow upon finite man. This is free to all and in this gift there could be no computation; this endowment specially signalized the enthronement of the only begotten Son of God in His mediatorial kingdom. In this, the gift of the Comforter, the Lord God of heaven demonstrates to man the perfect reconciliation which He had effected between Himself and men. "Which hope," says the apostle, "we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil, whither the forerunner is for us entered" (Heb_6:19-20).

Has not God said He would give the Holy Spirit to them that ask Him? And is not this Spirit a real, true, actual Guide? Some men seem afraid to take God at His word, as though it would be presumption in them. They pray for the Lord to teach us and yet are afraid to credit the pledged word of God and believe we have been taught of Him. So long as we come to our heavenly Father humbly and with a spirit to be taught, willing and anxious to learn, why should we doubt God's fulfillment of His own promise? You must not for a moment doubt Him and dishonor Him thereby.

When you have sought to know His will, your part in the operation with God is to believe that you will be led and guided and blessed in the doing of His will. We may mistrust ourselves lest we misinterpret His teachings, but make even this a subject of prayer, and trust Him, still trust Him to the uttermost, that His Holy Spirit will lead you to interpret aright His plans and the working of His providence.--Manuscript Releases, vol. 6, pp. 223, 224.

[Overaged]

Believing in His Guidance

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory. 1Co_2:5-7.

I guess one thing I was thinking is that such promises apply equally for those who must stay in the cities.

[Guest]

Aloha!

Just arrived in Honolulu, with one more flight to the big island where I'll be speaking this weekend.

I wanted to give you all an update on our meeting in Los Angeles last Sunday. Thank you for your prayers and thank you also to those who invited friends to this meeting - it really made a difference! We had close to 700 in attendance with an estimate of more than 100 non-Adventists based on survey and attendance records.

It was very encouraging to visit with so many who are interested in being prepared for what is coming. We'll be posting resources at the "Prepare! Los Angeles" website including recordings from the meetings. We'll let you know when they're available.

Please keep those who attended, especially the non-Adventists, in your prayers as we seek to find ways to continue our contact with them through the internet, future media, publications, and local area church outreach events.

Thank you for being a vital part of this ministry and may God bless you!

Sincerely,

Dave Westbrook

Back to Enoch Ministries

PS - Here's a link for a story about our meeting posted by the Los Angeles NBC affiliate several days before the meeting took place.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local-beat/If-The-Big-One-is-near-Prepare-LA-is-here-90973014.html

[Overaged]

Aloha!

Just arrived in Honolulu, with one more flight to the big island where I'll be speaking this weekend.

I wanted to give you all an update on our meeting in Los Angeles last Sunday. Thank you for your prayers and thank you also to those who invited friends to this meeting - it really made a difference! We had close to 700 in attendance with an estimate of more than 100 non-Adventists based on survey and attendance records.

It was very encouraging to visit with so many who are interested in being prepared for what is coming. We'll be posting resources at the "Prepare! Los Angeles" website including recordings from the meetings. We'll let you know when they're available.

Please keep those who attended, especially the non-Adventists, in your prayers as we seek to find ways to continue our contact with them through the internet, future media, publications, and local area church outreach events.

Thank you for being a vital part of this ministry and may God bless you!

Sincerely,

Dave Westbrook

Back to Enoch Ministries

PS - Here's a link for a story about our meeting posted by the Los Angeles NBC affiliate several days before the meeting took place.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local-beat/If-The-Big-One-is-near-Prepare-LA-is-here-90973014.html

It's too bad that such meetings don't address the true preparation needed to "prepare for what's coming." and to tell us exactly who is behind these meetings, and to talk about Jesus. All the web site talks about is physical "survival skills."

[Guest]

How would you know what such meetings do and don't address? Have you ever been to one?

[Guest]

Quote:

and to tell us exactly who is behind these meetings

Sincerely,

Dave Westbrook

Back to Enoch Ministries

Are you sure you really wanted to know? It was right in front of you. It's not a secret.

[Overaged]

How would you know what such meetings do and don't address? Have you ever been to one?

I would imagine that it should be readily apparent on their web site and in their "testimonies." Perhaps you could share the link/s with the missing info that I "couldn't possibly know?"

[olger]

BTW, the Amish won't be attending this seminar.

[Overaged]

BTW, the Amish won't be attending this seminar.

LOL

[olger]

:)

My grandfather was Amish. I still have many cousins who are.

g