Important Seminar: Getting Out of the Cities/Living Off the Land...

[Overaged]

My grandfather was Amish. I still have many cousins who are.

g

That would be really cool to have those kinds of relatives. I have always found the Amish to be very interesting. The only thing I'd be a little worried about is at harvest time. I watched how they bring in the sheaves...

[Guest]

Perhaps you could share the link/s with the missing info that I "couldn't possibly know?"

Just as I thought. You've never been to one, yet you feign concern as to how they are conducted.

[phkrause]

Aloha!

Just arrived in Honolulu, with one more flight to the big island where I'll be speaking this weekend.

I wanted to give you all an update on our meeting in Los Angeles last Sunday. Thank you for your prayers and thank you also to those who invited friends to this meeting - it really made a difference! We had close to 700 in attendance with an estimate of more than 100 non-Adventists based on survey and attendance records.

It was very encouraging to visit with so many who are interested in being prepared for what is coming. We'll be posting resources at the "Prepare! Los Angeles" website including recordings from the meetings. We'll let you know when they're available.

Please keep those who attended, especially the non-Adventists, in your prayers as we seek to find ways to continue our contact with them through the internet, future media, publications, and local area church outreach events.

Thank you for being a vital part of this ministry and may God bless you!

Sincerely,

Dave Westbrook

Back to Enoch Ministries

PS - Here's a link for a story about our meeting posted by the Los Angeles NBC affiliate several days before the meeting took place.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local-beat/If-The-Big-One-is-near-Prepare-LA-is-here-90973014.html

Hi Richard, glad to hear from you. Wasn't aware that you were going to Hawaii? You probably mentioned it but I didn't quite get it. Hope all goes well with the meetings, will be praying for you and the people. Take care and be safe.

pk

[Overaged]

quote=Overaged] Perhaps you could share the link/s with the missing info that I "couldn't possibly know?"/quote]

Just as I thought. You've never been to one, yet you feign concern as to how they are conducted.

Richard; either you can supply the information I asked about or you can't. It looks like you can't. Whether or not I have been to one of these meetings or not is not the question. I based my request to you on what anyone can see on the websites involved. There is nothing there about the true preparation of the heart needed for "the time of trouble." All I saw was a lot of hype about survival skills. To do what they "advise" on this site would cost many thousands of dollars, and it is only something that those with enough resources can do. You don't have to like that; but this is the reality of it. What's worse, is that "Back To Enoch Ministries" purports all this expenditure and survivalist mentality as a "return to holy living." It seems they are saying "holy living" is not possible unless you follow their plan.

[Guest]

I don't know of any link that will put you in one of the meetings. If I did I would link you there, and you would see that they most definately do talk about preparation of the heart.

So you can rest easy now. And I appreciate all your concern.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Aloha!

Just arrived in Honolulu, with one more flight to the big island where I'll be speaking this weekend.

I wanted to give you all an update on our meeting in Los Angeles last Sunday. Thank you for your prayers and thank you also to those who invited friends to this meeting - it really made a difference! We had close to 700 in attendance with an estimate of more than 100 non-Adventists based on survey and attendance records.

It was very encouraging to visit with so many who are interested in being prepared for what is coming. We'll be posting resources at the "Prepare! Los Angeles" website including recordings from the meetings. We'll let you know when they're available.

Please keep those who attended, especially the non-Adventists, in your prayers as we seek to find ways to continue our contact with them through the internet, future media, publications, and local area church outreach events.

Thank you for being a vital part of this ministry and may God bless you!

Sincerely,

Dave Westbrook

Back to Enoch Ministries

PS - Here's a link for a story about our meeting posted by the Los Angeles NBC affiliate several days before the meeting took place.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local-beat/If-The-Big-One-is-near-Prepare-LA-is-here-90973014.html

Hi Richard, glad to hear from you. Wasn't aware that you were going to Hawaii? You probably mentioned it but I didn't quite get it. Hope all goes well with the meetings, will be praying for you and the people. Take care and be safe.

pk

Thanks pk, I really appreciate that. But that was an update letter from Dave Westbrook of Back to Enoch Ministries. I am not the one going to Hawaii. It would be nice though.

[phkrause]

OK I missed that too?

pk

[Overaged]

I don't know of any link that will put you in one of the meetings. If I did I would link you there, and you would see that they most definately do talk about preparation of the heart.

So you can rest easy now. And I appreciate all your concern.

The most it says on any of their websites about "preparation" is that "holy living" = "get out of the city," so unless one can spend the bucks to first go to a meeting, and second, do all that is advised at same; I guess they miss out. No country. No "holy living." No "holy living" no heaven. Nice.

[Guest]

Don't worry o/a, when Ellen White said to get out of the cities, I don't think she was referring to Canadians. At least not the ones in Alberta. Go on back to sleep, and rest easy.

[Overaged]

Don't worry o/a, when Ellen White said to get out of the cities, I don't think she was referring to Canadians. At least not the ones in Alberta. Go on back to sleep, and rest easy.

Well; in the book "Country Living;" we have what is known as a "compilation." A compilation can be made to say things a certain way not intended by the author of any quotes used in the compilation. The context of the quotes can be and are changed in a compilation of quotes. Therefore, when you tell us "Ellen White says get out of the cities," how come you can never tell us just who she was referring to, why she addressed them with this; and what she has to say about the millions who will never make it out of the cities? It is quite clear in an overview of the materials available that she said "when possible," meaning something much different than what this great ministry and yourself purport.

Why is the web site of "Back To Enoch" only quoting Ellen White to "prove" that all must "get out of the cities?" Not one single scripture verse on that web site to explain why, or to explain the true preparation of the heart for what is coming? The major focus is on survival techniques, none of which will do anyone any good when the time we are all concerned about arrives.

[Guest]

Why is the web site of "Back To Enoch" only quoting Ellen White to "prove" that all must "get out of the cities?"

There is no Ellen White quote that says "all must get out of the cities." Still making things up eh? I'm wondering why it bothers you so much that some people may want to get out of the cities.

[Guest]

so why all the 'hidey'? Sounds like possibly another EGW offshoot organization, ya the ones she herself warned others about way back when!!!

Samo-samo...the same as GIGO!!

There is no "hidey". Anybody with half a brain can find out all they want about this organization. You obviously haven't even looked.

But of course then you couldn't make your little disingenuous, negative post about them could you? Face it, some people are actually led by more than self analysis and feel good slogans. Even though it irks you.

They know it irks you and your kind, but they don't care.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

This thread reminds me of "Green Acres" on TV in the 60's.

[Guest]

It reminds me of "The Twilight Zone" "Lost in Space" and "Gilligan's Island" all rolled into one.

And maybe a touch of "Wild Wild West" on a Dr. Loveless episode.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

so why all the 'hidey'? Sounds like possibly another EGW offshoot organization, ya the ones she herself warned others about way back when!!!

Samo-samo...the same as GIGO!!

There is no "hidey". Anybody with half a brain can find out all they want about this organization. You obviously haven't even looked.

But of course then you couldn't make your little disingenuous, negative post about them could you? Face it, some people are actually led by more than self analysis and feel good slogans. Even though it irks you.

They know it irks you and your kind, but they don't care.

"They don't care" is actually quite correct. And it shows in the web site and the misleading "information" about "getting back to holy living." They actually don't make it really obvious or easy to find out exactly who they are and what denomination/s they represent.

I wonder why you have not been able to answer my stated concerns re the book "Country Living," and some related matters? Could it be that you actually are the one trying to hide behind something here?

[Overaged]

This thread reminds me of "Green Acres" on TV in the 60's.

That was a good show; I particularly enjoyed "Arnold" even though he was "unclean."

[Overaged]

I'm wondering why it bothers you so much that some people may want to get out of the cities.

Because people have been ruined financially by trying to do this as a result of the way "getting out of the city" is distorted by these meetings and ministries which support them.

[Aliensanctuary]

Going Green

Perhaps we should consider rototilling up the grass in our backyards to grow some corn, tomaters, taters, a few berry bushes, a couple of fruit trees, and more. If we like eggs, we could let a few chickens run around to eat the bugs. A goat or two might be nice for cheese, butter, and milk. The goats can also be used as lawn mowers to keep the grass in the front yard short. You could even rent the goats out to the neighbors as the greenest possible lawn mowers.

If you want to add a cow you'll probably have to run it down to the nearest park every day so it has plenty of space to do what cows do. Of course, cows do expel methane, so you'll have to bag it and burn it. You should use the gas to cook your food or heat your home. Or, you could install a catalytic converter on the beast to convert the methane into something less harmful to the environment. The best catalytic converter/mufflers come from Mexico. They have a pipe that rises vertically, then extends backwards for improved dispersal. You’ve probably seen them on some of the busses down there. If you’re really into it, there are discreet models designed for human use, mainly greenies.

No yard? No problem. Gardens can be grown on rooftops these days. That will help cool your house during the hot summer, too. With photovoltaic panels, solar hot water heating, composting toilets, gray-water recycling, and square-foot gardening, a person in the city could easily disconnect from the "grid" and become more self-sufficient.

Yep, farmers taking back the city, a dream come true.

(Of course, you'll have to take the kids' cell phones away or turn off the TV or computer until their chores are done.)

[phkrause]

Hey come on guys, Richard is doing something he feels is a good thing! What's wrong with that. Everyone has a right to do what they feel is a calling for them. Besides there is absolutely nothing wrong with moving to the country, or vice-sa-versa. I remember a friend who used to work with me at the College Press here at AUC. She worked with a group of people that lived in CT, that used to drive down to NYC every weekend. She eventually quit her job to work with them full time. They were a self supporting ministry. They all lived pretty much together and grew there own food,etc. She always thought that was her calling. I can see if it was a bad thing that we would thought was from the "devil" or something, but its not. So I see no reason to be sarcastic about it. That's my 2 cents worth, sorry if I offended anyone.

pk

[BobRyan]

There is no Ellen White quote that says "all must get out of the cities." Still making things up eh? I'm wondering why it bothers you so much that some people may want to get out of the cities.

Getting out of the cities is an important part of the message for the end times. What good does it do to have the information and ignore it - suffering the consequences as if we had never been warned at all.

But my question is - how "far" outside the cities? You can find a lot of "country" and even farmland - fairly close to cities -- within 30 to 50 minutes of a large city in many cases.

This is not the "time of trouble" so we are not headed to the hills so to speak. Which means that living outside the cities but near enough to still be involved in evangelism that reaches people in nearby suburbs of the city - is doable.

in Christ,

Bob

[Neil D]

Hey come on guys, Richard is doing something he feels is a good thing! What's wrong with that. Everyone has a right to do what they feel is a calling for them.

[Dr. Rich]

"This little light of mine, I'm going to let it shine--This little light of mine, I'm going to let it shine, let it shine, let it shine, let it shine. Shine all over my secret little hidden place, I'm going to let it shine------"

[John317]

Ellen White wrote, "If we place ourselves under objectionable influences, can we expect God to work a miracle to undo the results of our wrong course? No, indeed. Get out of the cities as soon as possible, and purchase a little piece of land, where you can have a garden, where your children can watch the flowers growing, and learn from them lessons of simplicity and purity." See 2 SM 354-364.

Ellen White did counsel people to get out of the cities and into the country, but she didn't mean for them to rush out without knowing what they were going to do and how they would do it. It's a move that requires much consideration and planning. It seems that this is what the Seminar is designed to help people do, and to the extent that this is true, it is doing a wonderful work. God would certainly have families move from the cities and into the country, but it must be done right.

Ellen White's counsel: "... there are many who are stirred deeply to move out of Battle Creek. There is need, great need, of this work being done, and now. Those who have felt at last to make a move, let it not be in a rush, in an excitement, or in a rash manner, or in a way that hereafter they will deeply regret that they did move out..." 2 SM 361

I haven't seen anyone on the thread saying that people should not be careful and think through what they are doing. No one is counseling anyone to make a rash move to get out of the city. They are only telling the truth, which is that it is time to start considering getting out of the cities. Ellen White wrote many times that SDAs ought to move out of the cities as fast as possible-- that is, as fast as it can be done judiciously and wisely.

For anyone interested in what God wants us to do in this respect, please study the references to the topic found in the Comprehensive Index to the Writings of Ellen White, vol. 1, pages 619-620, under the heading, " 9. Relation of SDA families to [cities]." You will see that there is no indication whatever that God wants our families living in the cities. We all should move out as God opens the way. "Christian character is formed more easily in the country than amid the wickedness of city life" Evangelism 46.

[Neil D]

John

Overaged gave a very good detailed summery of EGW position...

Please........

......don't do this.......

[phkrause]

John

Overaged gave a very good detailed summery of EGW position...

Please........

......don't do this.......

Well Neil I guess John makes some very good points.

pk