SivartM Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 When does it turn into a human? When it has a brain? When it hatches? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Members abelisle Posted June 11, 2010 Members Posted June 11, 2010 Have we considered sentience or consciousness awareness - the ability to mentally self-reflect? It seems that the discussion is primarily concerned with visceral matters rather than cerebral ones. I realize this possibly falls within philosophical conjecturing but epistemological concerns are quite relevant since in a soteriological sense we are only responsible for our salvation when we are of "an age of understanding." Although God is "the ground of all being" I believe we become "beings" when we attain full consciousness. Fullness of being probably will never be achieved until we are in our Maker's presence? Alex (hmm . . . wonder if it's safe to mix epistemology, ontology and soteriology Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
doug yowell Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 That doesn't matter. After God breathed the breath of life into him he became a real human being. And all that came after him (them) was human also. Even before it was breathing, because it was part of them. Adam was never a fertilized ovum. Quote
doug yowell Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma How could it be anything other than human? It certainly isn't any other kind of living thing. The DNA in those few cells is human, not bird, reptile, plant, fungus, or bacteria. The fact that it is not fully formed doesn't make it something else. When you buy a fertilized egg, you are buying NOT a chicken, but a POTENTIAL chicken. Is an acorn an oak? NO! It's a POTENTIAL oak. Ditto, a fertilized ovum is NOT a human being. It is a POTENTIAL human being. A fertilized egg can NEVER become a chicken. If it's only a potential human, what are the other potential possibilities?How do we know that it's a potential chicken? Why not a potential oak tree? How can that human potential, or potential human reach it's potential? How can we know for sure what it's potential could be? If it has human DNA, and it is growing it is, by definition, a living human being. Quote
doug yowell Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 No. He was just dust of the ground until after. Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. What was Adam before God breathed into his nostrils, Richard?? Answer: A dead human being.He didn't become a human he became a LIVING human.When that breath left him he was again a dead human. Does human DNA cease to exist when a person stops breathing? Quote
doug yowell Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Dust of the ground that had been formed.Into a......?---------------Ya shure. Quote
karl Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook No. He was just dust of the ground until after. Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. What was Adam before God breathed into his nostrils, Richard?? Answer: A dead human being.He didn't become a human he became a LIVING human.When that breath left him he was again a dead human. Does human DNA cease to exist when a person stops breathing? It'll be interesting to see what our glorified bodies are made of. Maybe carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen and trace elements will be capable of traveling the universe at the speed of thought. Doesn't seem likely, but who knows? Maybe we'll be made of stuff we don't even know about. Eye hath not seen. Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted June 11, 2010 Members Posted June 11, 2010 If a fertilized chicken egg is really a chicken, then all the vegetarians out there are really eating chicken meat when they eat eggs. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
SivartM Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Not technically, because the chicken eggs in the grocery store aren't fertilized. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Guest Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook No. He was just dust of the ground until after. Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. What was Adam before God breathed into his nostrils, Richard?? Answer: A dead human being.He didn't become a human he became a LIVING human.When that breath left him he was again a dead human. Does human DNA cease to exist when a person stops breathing? Ok, I will concede the point to an extint. But when God created man, (this applies only to the first man, Adam) The job wasn't finished until he recieved the breath of life. So could he really be called a human yet? Quote
doug yowell Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 So could he really be called a human yet? I'm not going for the "dirtbag" option.Got any other options?I'm open. Quote
Guest Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 No I wouldn't call him just a bag of dirt, because God formed that dirt. So there was nothing ordinary or plain about it. I'm just saying that everyone of us who came after the first couple, was human, even before we were breathing. Quote
doug yowell Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 No I wouldn't call him just a bag of dirt, because God formed that dirt. So there was nothing ordinary or plain about it. I'm just saying that everyone of us who came after the first couple, was human, even before we were breathing."Brilliant minds think".....??We must have evolved from the same ape. Quote
Members phkrause Posted June 12, 2010 Members Posted June 12, 2010 So could he really be called a human yet? Human? Yes, but not a "Being" pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Guest Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook No I wouldn't call him just a bag of dirt, because God formed that dirt. So there was nothing ordinary or plain about it. I'm just saying that everyone of us who came after the first couple, was human, even before we were breathing. "Brilliant minds think".....??We must have evolved from the same ape. Indubidently! Quote
GreatLakesGramma Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Alex (hmm . . . wonder if it's safe to mix epistemology, ontology and soteriology No, it's not OK, unless you tell us what those words mean. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
Guest Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook So could he really be called a human yet? Human? Yes, but not a "Being" pk Why is that? Quote
SivartM Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Is it any wonder that there are so many human rights violations happening still, when we aren't even sure what a human is? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Guest Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 You must be talking to those other guys. I'm pretty sure. Quote
SivartM Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 I wasn't talking to anyone in particular. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
doug yowell Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Is it any wonder that there are so many human rights violations happening still, when we aren't even sure what a human is?Good point SM. But if we don't know what a human is are we so sure that human rights are, in fact, being violated? Quote
GreatLakesGramma Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 When you buy a fertilized egg, you are buying NOT a chicken, but a POTENTIAL chicken. Is an acorn an oak? NO! It's a POTENTIAL oak. Ditto, a fertilized ovum is NOT a human being. It is a POTENTIAL human being. I disagree. An egg does not contain a fully developed, viable chicken, but it is still a chicken, an embryonic chicken. And an acorn contains a living, embryonic oak tree. It's there, and you know it. You studied biology. The tiny little embryonic leaves and root are there, just waiting for the right conditions to awaken them. At all stages, a human is human. It's a human sperm, a human egg, a human zygote, a human fetus, a human embryo. It's always human. It's not a fully developed, viable human being, but it's never anything except human. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
GreatLakesGramma Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 If a fertilized chicken egg is really a chicken, then all the vegetarians out there are really eating chicken meat when they eat eggs. Not true. The word "meat" refers to muscle and organ tissue. The embryonic chicken in the egg has not yet formed tissues and organs. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
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